General Aid for the EFL?

How about...........
The "Big Six" feck off to their "Europa Super League World Tour".
Leaves 86 clubs or so (Covid pending!)
The remaining leagues go back to Div 1, 2, 3 & 4 with 20-22 clubs in each.
2 up, 2 down all the way through.
Sell the broadcast rights to BT/IFollow.

Anyone like Southend etc goes belly up bring an extra club up from the Conference.

Sorted.
 
If the big clubs want B teams, then put their A teams into the ESLWT and then have a separate B squad stay in Pyramid (with no switching between squads during the season).
If nothing else, it would be interesting to see which of the two sides the majority of their supporters would follow.
 

Don't you just love Leyton Orient. Everyone's second team I'd bet.

He also said 'Project Big Picture' - a plan by Liverpool and Manchester United to reform the English football pyramid - was a "great proposal".
 
I don't think this proposal is going to go through. It's been too widely criticised already and is too obviously an overt power grab by the six richest clubs in the country. But something like this will go through eventually. Quite simply, the clubs in our divisions need the money, and are in a much weaker bargaining position than the Premier League. For all the assertions, not incorrect, that Manchester United's relationship with Morecambe is different to, say, Sainsbury's with the local independent offie, and that there is a degree of interdependence, it is obvious that Morecambe stand to lose far, far more by no longer existing than Manchester United do from not having as comprehensive a footballing pyramid below them. The longer this goes on, the more power the Manchester Uniteds of this world have, and the more likely the Morecambes will be to give in and accept any terms offered to them.

Of course, it would be lovely if the Premier League as a whole recognised a moral and civic duty to football as a whole and bailed out the EFL out of nothing more than the goodness of its heart, but that is simply not reality. Exceedingly wealthy they may be, but 250m is still a hell of a lot of money, and money they can use as leverage to extract better terms for themselves in a negotiation. It's harsh, it's cold and corporate, it's the complete opposite of what is so great about football, but fundamentally, it would be pretty commercially nonsensical of them to just give the EFL that money.

(Incidentally, I'm not convinced it is the government's responsibility to bail out the EFL, either - much as I love football, I do have sympathy for the observation that, if you are bailing out football clubs, do you also need to bail out rugby clubs, cricket clubs, badminton clubs, etc.? And why only sports? Why not also theatres, nightclubs, other recreational industries and institutions? If anything, football clubs should probably be lowest on that list, as they do have sources of income at the moment - sponsorships, iFollow - where other industries don't.)

So, while the terms of this deal are obviously very bad, and would represent a cataclysmic shift in what English football is, I wonder if they might be the best terms the EFL, as a whole, are going to get. There aren't B Teams; 25% of future TV deals sounds fairly generous; the leagues more-or-less survive. Future offers of deals, when they come, will not have any incentive to be any more generous. It's not ideal, it's not what any of us would want to see happening to English football, but it's reality. The big players hold all the cards - and if we, and many other fans of many other clubs, want to see our club in the flesh again in the future, in any capacity, we're probably just going to have to play along.
 
I don't think this proposal is going to go through. It's been too widely criticised already and is too obviously an overt power grab by the six richest clubs in the country. But something like this will go through eventually. Quite simply, the clubs in our divisions need the money, and are in a much weaker bargaining position than the Premier League. For all the assertions, not incorrect, that Manchester United's relationship with Morecambe is different to, say, Sainsbury's with the local independent offie, and that there is a degree of interdependence, it is obvious that Morecambe stand to lose far, far more by no longer existing than Manchester United do from not having as comprehensive a footballing pyramid below them. The longer this goes on, the more power the Manchester Uniteds of this world have, and the more likely the Morecambes will be to give in and accept any terms offered to them.

Of course, it would be lovely if the Premier League as a whole recognised a moral and civic duty to football as a whole and bailed out the EFL out of nothing more than the goodness of its heart, but that is simply not reality. Exceedingly wealthy they may be, but 250m is still a hell of a lot of money, and money they can use as leverage to extract better terms for themselves in a negotiation. It's harsh, it's cold and corporate, it's the complete opposite of what is so great about football, but fundamentally, it would be pretty commercially nonsensical of them to just give the EFL that money.

(Incidentally, I'm not convinced it is the government's responsibility to bail out the EFL, either - much as I love football, I do have sympathy for the observation that, if you are bailing out football clubs, do you also need to bail out rugby clubs, cricket clubs, badminton clubs, etc.? And why only sports? Why not also theatres, nightclubs, other recreational industries and institutions? If anything, football clubs should probably be lowest on that list, as they do have sources of income at the moment - sponsorships, iFollow - where other industries don't.)

So, while the terms of this deal are obviously very bad, and would represent a cataclysmic shift in what English football is, I wonder if they might be the best terms the EFL, as a whole, are going to get. There aren't B Teams; 25% of future TV deals sounds fairly generous; the leagues more-or-less survive. Future offers of deals, when they come, will not have any incentive to be any more generous. It's not ideal, it's not what any of us would want to see happening to English football, but it's reality. The big players hold all the cards - and if we, and many other fans of many other clubs, want to see our club in the flesh again in the future, in any capacity, we're probably just going to have to play along.

There aren't directly B teams - but with the shift in power as a result it would follow.
 
Bail out or not those rich clubs are not going to be interested in the likes of us and all other Lower based clubs.

Where were they when Bury and lately Macclesfield were in trouble? 1 Months wages from any of the over paid prima donnas would have saved either .club whilst alternatives were found.

it is difficult enough getting floating fans to watch but if you have no real hope or dreams then what really is the point when all that's happening is the gap gets bigger and bigger and eventually you'll be left with a tiny hardcore of fans faced with watching the same teams season after season and that's only if you're fortunate to survive.

in case people have forgotten Eufa are already looking to add teams to the Champions and Europa League so potentially even the those below the top 6 are going to get massive financial incentives and increases.

I am forever repeating that the moment it didn't matter whether you won a League and could celebrate what would normal be a failed season by finishing 4th and some 20-30-40pts from the Top the alarm bells were ringing. The Top League and clubs care not about football in general, if they did why are they not telling Eufa they play too many games and get Eufa competitions for the winners only instead of meaningless games against the minnows of Europe.

Apart from money what is the difference between a League cup game against say Bristol City and The minnows of Europe.
 
I don't think this proposal is going to go through. It's been too widely criticised already and is too obviously an overt power grab by the six richest clubs in the country. But something like this will go through eventually. Quite simply, the clubs in our divisions need the money, and are in a much weaker bargaining position than the Premier League. For all the assertions, not incorrect, that Manchester United's relationship with Morecambe is different to, say, Sainsbury's with the local independent offie, and that there is a degree of interdependence, it is obvious that Morecambe stand to lose far, far more by no longer existing than Manchester United do from not having as comprehensive a footballing pyramid below them. The longer this goes on, the more power the Manchester Uniteds of this world have, and the more likely the Morecambes will be to give in and accept any terms offered to them.

Of course, it would be lovely if the Premier League as a whole recognised a moral and civic duty to football as a whole and bailed out the EFL out of nothing more than the goodness of its heart, but that is simply not reality. Exceedingly wealthy they may be, but 250m is still a hell of a lot of money, and money they can use as leverage to extract better terms for themselves in a negotiation. It's harsh, it's cold and corporate, it's the complete opposite of what is so great about football, but fundamentally, it would be pretty commercially nonsensical of them to just give the EFL that money.

(Incidentally, I'm not convinced it is the government's responsibility to bail out the EFL, either - much as I love football, I do have sympathy for the observation that, if you are bailing out football clubs, do you also need to bail out rugby clubs, cricket clubs, badminton clubs, etc.? And why only sports? Why not also theatres, nightclubs, other recreational industries and institutions? If anything, football clubs should probably be lowest on that list, as they do have sources of income at the moment - sponsorships, iFollow - where other industries don't.)

So, while the terms of this deal are obviously very bad, and would represent a cataclysmic shift in what English football is, I wonder if they might be the best terms the EFL, as a whole, are going to get. There aren't B Teams; 25% of future TV deals sounds fairly generous; the leagues more-or-less survive. Future offers of deals, when they come, will not have any incentive to be any more generous. It's not ideal, it's not what any of us would want to see happening to English football, but it's reality. The big players hold all the cards - and if we, and many other fans of many other clubs, want to see our club in the flesh again in the future, in any capacity, we're probably just going to have to play along.
A very fair summary. I haven't looked at this in detail but I wonder if the current 'deal' with:

- The League Cup continuing but without the PL clubs who are in Europe taking part
- The removal of the '6 from 9' can vote through future change proposal

is as unpalatable as others have made out. Do I like it - no, do I wonder what the next offer might be if there isn't some form of acceptance of this one, yes I do.........

I wonder how much it would really affect OUFC as unless there is a revelation in our backing/fortunes we aren't going anywhere near the PL. If I was one of the other 11 PL clubs or in the top half of the Championship Clubs based on revenue and size, then this 'deal' would be very unattractive indeed.

I loved the way in which West Ham said they were against the proposal - were they not consulted? If not, then that's a very bizarre situation.
 
Classic positioning really.
Ask for the moon on a stick.
Get the moon, no stick.
Collect stick when nobody else wants it.
 
... Morecambe stand to lose far, far more by no longer existing than Manchester United do from not having as comprehensive a footballing pyramid below them.
That's true.

But looking forwards a few years, if EFL L1 and L2 teams are full of young loanees from Prem clubs (they can loan out 15 each even under this proposal, I think) and some of the teams they are playing against are B-teams from those same clubs, then what is the point of Morcambe? Or Oxford? Or anyone outside the Prem? Yes, more teams might survive - but at what cost? There are of course some club chairmen who would love it, and a few have already said so (Crewe and Leyton Orient for example are all for this proposal)
 
A very fair summary. I haven't looked at this in detail but I wonder if the current 'deal' with:

- The League Cup continuing but without the PL clubs who are in Europe taking part
- The removal of the '6 from 9' can vote through future change proposal

is as unpalatable as others have made out. Do I like it - no, do I wonder what the next offer might be if there isn't some form of acceptance of this one, yes I do.........

I wonder how much it would really affect OUFC as unless there is a revelation in our backing/fortunes we aren't going anywhere near the PL. If I was one of the other 11 PL clubs or in the top half of the Championship Clubs based on revenue and size, then this 'deal' would be very unattractive indeed.

I loved the way in which West Ham said they were against the proposal - were they not consulted? If not, then that's a very bizarre situation.
Take out the 6 from 9 (or variants) and set certain core principles in stone (eg. Prom/Rel, FA Cup, no B-teams in League setup etc) that cannot be changed without agreement of the whole 92 and/or the current voting setup, then I agree that the rest will be tolerable (with a few tweaks maybe).

The key factor in concluding this will be the concessions from this starting point given to the other current Prem sides - as it stands the 11 wont back the rule of (6 from) 9, but give them some say in the matter, then who knows how quickly things might turn
 
Saw this earlier. Taking club rivalries out of it, it's Joel Glazer and John Henry and various other billionaires divvying up the money in English football.
 

Holloway: "Greed is disgusting, and that’s what I’m seeing everywhere. It’s absolutely vile."​

Grimsby Town manager on the Project Big Picture plans for the English football pyramid.


He does love a good rant doesn’t he? Bless. Still, a lot of sense in there.
 
So apparently in order to pass Project Big Picture, they would have to get 14 of the Premier League clubs to vote for it.

Which, given that it completely screws over 11 Premier League clubs, is pretty damn unlikely. The Villa CEO came out and basically just laughed and said the proposal was DOA. Even West Ham don't appear to be in favor, despite being one of the chosen few.

Starting to think it was really just virtue signaling from Man U & Liverpool, so that when half a dozen EFL clubs go under in the next few months because they're no longer viable under Cover restrictions, having received no more money from the Premier League or the government, then the two of them will hold their hands up and say 'It wasn't us - we put forward a perfectly good proposal - blame those guys'.

Which of course will be B*****s, as Man U & Liverpool are at the very heart of everything that's wrong with the modern game.......
 
It has however served it's purpose - the PL now know that EFL clubs are desperate enough to agree to just about anything.

With a few tweeks to bring the other 14 onboard and some further impositions on the EFL clubs, "Project Short 'n' Curlies" could well be landing on owners desks by the end of the year.....
 
So apparently in order to pass Project Big Picture, they would have to get 14 of the Premier League clubs to vote for it.

Which, given that it completely screws over 11 Premier League clubs, is pretty damn unlikely. The Villa CEO came out and basically just laughed and said the proposal was DOA. Even West Ham don't appear to be in favor, despite being one of the chosen few.

Starting to think it was really just virtue signaling from Man U & Liverpool, so that when half a dozen EFL clubs go under in the next few months because they're no longer viable under Cover restrictions, having received no more money from the Premier League or the government, then the two of them will hold their hands up and say 'It wasn't us - we put forward a perfectly good proposal - blame those guys'.

Which of course will be B*****s, as Man U & Liverpool are at the very heart of everything that's wrong with the modern game.......
Rather than pin it on those clubs, it's their American owners ...
 
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