National News Rishi Sunak

I've just finished a very good book by by Ian Dunt called 'How Westminster Works...and Why It Doesn't".

It's a wide ranging tome but is very good on the 'generalism' of politician's skills and the lack of real expertise and this is across the political spectrum. He comments that it's rare for someone like Ben Wallace to be appointed, given that he had knowledge of the sector he was given responsibility for. The jobs are more likely to be given to political supporters, friends and donors and more often than not it's a political juggling act.

That in turn leads to rapid churn within key departments and no coherent strategy or in most cases, even the chance to get to grips with the issues facing them. Key departments like justice and housing tend to suffer the most - since 2010 there have been 11 justice ministers and Ken Clarke did 2 1/2 years of that period. The longest standing was Chris Grayling who, without consulting interested parties, privatised a probation service that was actually judged to be performing reasonably well - simply because he wanted to make an impact. Well he did and he decimated the service, leading to reoffending rates increasing, rather than decreasing. The consequences? He then moved on to be Leader of The House and the Transport Secretary.

Housing, which is a topic of hot discussion? 12 ministers since 2010 (including patently unsuitable 'friends' like Alok Sharma,. Esther McVey, Raab and Chris Pincher) - all brokering different policies and strategies with no joined up, long-term thinking.

The point is that the political system guarantees this will happen from parliament to parliament - we can't plan for the medium and long-term because of the lack of consensus and jobs are more often than not given because of personal interest and reward, rather than skill and interest.

Sorry, that this is as long as one of Joey's football posts in the other sections of the forum!
 
PottersRightBoot said:
And their lives would have been considerably worse if Corbyn or Starmer were in power Mr SE. .

Anyway looks like you’re going to find out soon just how bad they’re going to be.

Good luck, hope you’ve got some money in the bank.
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This is quaint - going back to the 80s, when the Tories had an image of 'economic competence' which they've long since surrendered.
 
Scotchegg said:
Perhaps we have very different morals then. Mine certainly don't align with a party who were willing to let the elderly die of covid (whilst double vaccinating their own families), who want to fine charities for providing tents to stop the most destitute from dying on our streets this winter, for being involved in corruption at every possible level that has seen billions of pounds of our money funnelled into the pockets of tory donors, that have demonising the most vulnerable in our society, and for using language that causes hate and division amongst our communities. They are not my morals, and thankful, they are not the morals of the great majority of what is still a very decent country.
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Not as an objection to anything you have said per se, but just picking up on the sentiment, I do get tired of the argument that Labor are somehow holier-than-thou and the Tories are all a bunch of crooks, admittedly not helped by some members of the serving government

It's a lazy argument and one that does politics in this country no favours whatsoever.
 
Carpy said:
Not as an objection to anything you have said per se, but just picking up on the sentiment, I do get tired of the argument that Labor are somehow holier-than-thou and the Tories are all a bunch of crooks, admittedly not helped by some members of the serving government

It's a lazy argument and one that does politics in this country no favours whatsoever.
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I'm not sure anybody is really saying Labour are holier than thou are they?

But plenty are pointing out that this current government are an absolute skip fire, and they just happen to be Tories....who have had 13 years to bring us to this point.

I've been around the sun a fair few times and I don't think I have ever witnessed a government who are as mendacious, self-serving and incompetent all at the same time as the current lot.....ever.
 
Carpy said:
Not as an objection to anything you have said per se, but just picking up on the sentiment, I do get tired of the argument that Labor are somehow holier-than-thou and the Tories are all a bunch of crooks, admittedly not helped by some members of the serving government

It's a lazy argument and one that does politics in this country no favours whatsoever.
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It's a lazy argument that I'm not making!

I've been a Tory voter most of my life. I've been around long enough to see good and bad politicians, local and national, of all parties. On a recent edition of Question Time, Baroness Warsi spoke with real compassion and understanding on several different subjects, and showed that many Tory principles would still resonate with average voters.

I've also been frustrated by the lack of leadership shown by many of Labours front bench, not just their leader. There is an opportunity to grasp control of what is going wrong with the country and show how Labour will govern. I understand why they are keeping their powder dry to some extent but feel short changed by the process.

However, the over riding factor in me wanting change is that I am repulsed by pretty much everything Braverman says. She honestly disgusts me and think that she is killing the party for populist votes. Sunak is the weakest leader in my lifetime and makes John Major look like Churchill. He is a joke amongst his own MPs and you only have to look at the faces of his front bench in PMQs to see the disdain many have for him. Beyond that there are some of the most inept and pathetic bunch of ministers ever, who will come out with any old shite if it keeps them elected. And that's ignoring those who have already gone or have no way back following corruption and incompetence never seen on this scale.

I don't need anyone holier-than-thou being elected. Just something better than what we have, who looks to take governance seriously rather than just an avenue to feather their nest and the nests of their paymasters.
 
Big Ron said:
I've just finished a very good book by by Ian Dunt called 'How Westminster Works...and Why It Doesn't".

It's a wide ranging tome but is very good on the 'generalism' of politician's skills and the lack of real expertise and this is across the political spectrum. He comments that it's rare for someone like Ben Wallace to be appointed, given that he had knowledge of the sector he was given responsibility for. The jobs are more likely to be given to political supporters, friends and donors and more often than not it's a political juggling act.

That in turn leads to rapid churn within key departments and no coherent strategy or in most cases, even the chance to get to grips with the issues facing them. Key departments like justice and housing tend to suffer the most - since 2010 there have been 11 justice ministers and Ken Clarke did 2 1/2 years of that period. The longest standing was Chris Grayling who, without consulting interested parties, privatised a probation service that was actually judged to be performing reasonably well - simply because he wanted to make an impact. Well he did and he decimated the service, leading to reoffending rates increasing, rather than decreasing. The consequences? He then moved on to be Leader of The House and the Transport Secretary.

Housing, which is a topic of hot discussion? 12 ministers since 2010 (including patently unsuitable 'friends' like Alok Sharma,. Esther McVey, Raab and Chris Pincher) - all brokering different policies and strategies with no joined up, long-term thinking.

The point is that the political system guarantees this will happen from parliament to parliament - we can't plan for the medium and long-term because of the lack of consensus and jobs are more often than not given because of personal interest and reward, rather than skill and interest.

Sorry, that this is as long as one of Joey's football posts in the other sections of the forum!
Click to expand...
The housing issue is very well covered in a new BBC documentary (2 parts) called "Britain’s Housing Crisis: What Went Wrong?"

It is a very interesting look at how our housing crisis is pretty much an endemic issue rooted in our society and economy, rather than (albeit negatively effected by) party politics. Nothing you won't already know but a very clear way of looking at it as a whole.

Interesting that you have reservations about the short termism of a 5 year political cycle. Can I count on you to join me in the Royalist army during our upcoming civil war? We'll be wearing cool red jackets and knee high boots and everything. Musket and rapier issued on joining.
 
Carpy said:
Not as an objection to anything you have said per se, but just picking up on the sentiment, I do get tired of the argument that Labor are somehow holier-than-thou and the Tories are all a bunch of crooks, admittedly not helped by some members of the serving government

It's a lazy argument and one that does politics in this country no favours whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Not sure anyone is really saying exactly that. I think Starmer is a bit of a wet blanket TBH and is unwilling to commit himself or his party to much (although I suspect that might just be 'the less we say, the less ammunition it gives the Tories, and they are doing a good enough job of losing anyway!'). But I find it hard to think how the Labour party would (or indeed *could*) be as self-serving, as uncaring, as populist, as incompetent or just as plain awful in all ways as the current government is. That's not saying Labour are brilliant, it's saying they are probably less appalling than the current Tory leadership (I have absolutely no doubt there are perfectly decent Tory MPs, members and voters who are very dismayed by their current hard right direction of travel in search of people daft enough to vote for them).

It's not a rousing endorsement but I, for one, would welcome an administration who didn't think food banks were normal for some working people, that all refugees were illegal migrants, that homeless people should be swept from the streets rather than being helped, that old people should be left to die in a pandemic, that any protest should be made in effect illegal, that 'othering' as many groups of people as possible was an acceptable way to curry favour with the majority, that 'indiscretions' by sitting MPs should be covered up as much as possible rather than being investigated, that science and data should not be used as a basis for decisions when dogma disagreed with it, that promotions to positions of power and government contracts (PPE etc) should be given to friends and supporters rather than those who are actually competent to do a decent job etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
Not sure anyone is really saying exactly that. I think Starmer is a bit of a wet blanket TBH and is unwilling to commit himself or his party to much (although I suspect that might just be 'the less we say, the less ammunition it gives the Tories, and they are doing a good enough job of losing anyway!'). But I find it hard to think how the Labour party would (or indeed *could*) be as self-serving, as uncaring, as populist, as incompetent or just as plain awful in all ways as the current government is. That's not saying Labour are brilliant, it's saying they are probably less appalling than the current Tory leadership (I have absolutely no doubt there are perfectly decent Tory MPs, members and voters who are very dismayed by their current hard right direction of travel in search of people daft enough to vote for them).

It's not a rousing endorsement but I, for one, would welcome an administration who didn't think food banks were normal for some working people, that all refugees were illegal migrants, that homeless people should be swept from the streets rather than being helped, that old people should be left to die in a pandemic, that any protest should be made in effect illegal, that 'othering' as many groups of people as possible was an acceptable way to curry favour with the majority, that 'indiscretions' by sitting MPs should be covered up as much as possible rather than being investigated, that science and data should not be used as a basis for decisions when dogma disagreed with it, that promotions to positions of power and government contracts (PPE etc) should be given to friends and supporters rather than those who are actually competent to do a decent job etc etc. The list could go on ad infinitum.
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Some Tories actually do believe this stuff. Others don't, but say it in order to wrap up the 'bastards and thick people' vote. Dunno which is worse really.
 
bashamwonderland said:
The housing issue is very well covered in a new BBC documentary (2 parts) called "Britain’s Housing Crisis: What Went Wrong?"

It is a very interesting look at how our housing crisis is pretty much an endemic issue rooted in our society and economy, rather than (albeit negatively effected by) party politics. Nothing you won't already know but a very clear way of looking at it as a whole.

Interesting that you have reservations about the short termism of a 5 year political cycle. Can I count on you to join me in the Royalist army during our upcoming civil war? We'll be wearing cool red jackets and knee high boots and everything. Musket and rapier issued on joining.
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I'll take a look at the documentary. I like to think that while my political views are generally on view, I'm not so blind as to see the political system is largely failing us.

As for the offer, hmmmm....not sure about the cause but I'm easily swayed by a lovely uniform and of course, having my own weaponry!
 
It's normal custom and practice to release a party manifesto with a bit more detail on proposed policies, ONCE an election has been called isn't it?

It's all very well criticising the opposition for a lack of detail, and some of it is justified, but I would expect detail from all parties once we know exactly when the election will be.... particularly important with the modern propensity to magpie policies which seem to resonate with the electorate.

I've not seen much detail from any party, especially not the government who's one wish/policy seems to be that we all have a bout of collective amnesia about the last 13 years between now and the general election🤷‍♂️
 
Something from LBC today:
In 1992, after 13 years of Tory rule we had tent cities in the heart of London .
In 2023, after 13 years of Tory rule, we have tent cities in the heart of London .
And the only “solution” is to ban tents .
Wtf
 
LowerSouth said:
Something from LBC today:
In 1992, after 13 years of Tory rule we had tent cities in the heart of London .
In 2023, after 13 years of Tory rule, we have tent cities in the heart of London .
And the only “solution” is to ban tents .
Wtf
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Makes perfect sense tbh. Can’t have tent cities if you can’t have a tent, same as you can’t have rising crime if you don’t have the resources or inclination to investigate crimes.

It’s straight out of the Trump playbook, like when his response to criticism for spiralling covid rates was to publicly state that if you don’t report the numbers, they can’t go up. He was properly chuffed with that one.

Smart. Bigly.
 
PottersRightBoot said:
And their lives would have been considerably worse if Corbyn or Starmer were in power Mr SE. .

Anyway looks like you’re going to find out soon just how bad they’re going to be.

Good luck, hope you’ve got some money in the bank.
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Will it be as bad as it was when Liz Truss was in power?
 
Sheik djibouti said:
Chemical Ali at his finest would be proud of that :ROFLMAO:
View attachment 16573

Good to see the uniform still fits @Essexyellows :ROFLMAO:
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Kings Speech made Charlie boy wince a bit, got to be a good thing. :)

As for house prices seems PWC got it a bit wrong predicting an 8% fall in 2023....
www.pwc.co.uk

UK Economic Outlook: Predictions for the year ahead 2023

Uncertainty was an overarching theme of 2022 overshadowing many of our predictions. So what lies ahead? Here, our economists outline what may be in store for people, businesses and society in the UK.
www.pwc.co.uk www.pwc.co.uk

And just when you thought things were going swimmingly for Labour......
www.bbc.co.uk

Imran Hussain: Shadow minister quits Labour front bench over Gaza

Labour's Imran Hussain says his view on Gaza "differs substantially" from that of leader Sir Keir Starmer.
www.bbc.co.uk

Roughly 7% of the UK population identify as Muslim and even in "Red" Leicester (not the cheese) Labour were haemorrhaging votes to the Tories before it all kicked off.

It may not be the cake walk some think it will be and it is often that complacency that does for Labour.

And we revert in the cycle to the who gets the grey/middle ground vote............
 
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