'Fat shaming' or fact sharing

As someone who works for the NHS, I'm in favour of this. Most people (not all) should be able to manage their weight by the simple maxim of 'Eat less, move more'. There are plenty of people though who can't seem to/don't want to put a bit of effort & self-discipline in to achieve this.

Current bill for the NHS is £125BN per annum and rising. Better long term care, drugs, research and resultant life expectancy means far more strain on NHS resources. Telehealth and technical advances will help to minimise some of this burden through more efficient use of resources but it's almost impossible for this and other efficiency measures to counterbalance higher life longevity and the increased cost of care this brings. Getting more people to think seriously about their lifestyle where the choice is an elective one has to be applauded.
 
I agree with the above and am frankly sickened by the culture of passive dependency upon others to take responsibility that exists. When I see face stuffing obese, shuffling/waddling parents with their children, and mobility scooter riding locals I have to work hard to keep my mouth shut.
 
I reckon most overweight people know they are overweight and it's not good for them long term and perhaps aren't strong enough to lose weight in a healthy way.
Being constantly reminded and shamed about it is probably not good for their mental health.
If it's a choice between being fat and happy, or fat and unhappy, which is better?
 
Parents who allow their children to become truly obese through choice should be prosecuted.

Adults that themselves are fat have to live with the consequences of their own choices, but we should offer education, support and the services of the NHS, as we do to smokers, drinkers, drug-users, serial-STD contractors and any other sufferers of life-style choice conditions. We do that because we are, in the main, a society that cares for all and not for the perfect few.

Fat-shaming, bullying and cruelty do not lead to positive change but they may make the one offering their view feel extra special about themselves and their perfect life.
 
MarkG said:
I reckon most overweight people know they are overweight and it's not good for them long term and perhaps aren't strong enough to lose weight in a healthy way.
Being constantly reminded and shamed about it is probably not good for their mental health.
If it's a choice between being fat and happy, or fat and unhappy, which is better?
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Actually there is something to be said for 'reality confrontation' (shaming doesn't work I agree, and I wouldn't suggest it) But there is a point here, which is that we have to say what see, namely that preventing obesity is necessary. Dealing with it through continued education and curbing the parasitic tendencies of those who provide crap for the uninformed/unconcerned/low income to live off.
Some people have mental health difficulties which are signalled by obesity, many will develop them as a result of the mobility reducing consequences.
 
OxfordYankee said:
Parents who allow their children to become truly obese through choice should be prosecuted.

Adults that themselves are fat have to live with the consequences of their own choices, but we should offer education, support and the services of the NHS, as we do to smokers, drinkers, drug-users, serial-STD contractors and any other sufferers of life-style choice conditions. We do that because we are, in the main, a society that cares for all and not for the perfect few.

Fat-shaming, bullying and cruelty do not lead to positive change but they may make the one offering their view feel extra special about themselves and their perfect life.
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You could also argue that these people are deserving of 'education, support and the services of the NHS', They would need however, to take personal responsibility and engage with them.
 
gofish2 said:
You could also argue that these people are deserving of 'education, support and the services of the NHS', They would need however, to take personal responsibility and engage with them.
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I agree, they should have access to those resources. Should they refuse them or choose not to enact the advice given, then they are making a choice on behalf of another person and should not be able to act with impunity, even if that person is their own child.
 
While giving health information should never be suppressed in favour of not 'offending' someone, I can't help feel that there is a bit more to it.

Namely that food producers have been allowed to pack cheap food with sugars and fats to increase their appeal and reduce costs. In much the same way that tobacco companies got away with it for decades. Yes, there is of course an element of personal choice, but it has to be an informed choice - and the labelling of food (at the very least) has to be much, much clearer. Add in more regulation of what (and how much) can be 'hidden' in food and I think that would be a start. If we have to follow the same path as fags - heavy taxation on offending items, restriction of sales to minors - then so be it. A bit 'nanny state' but the percentage of people smoking has reduced from 20% to 15% over the last seven years (https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...lletins/adultsmokinghabitsingreatbritain/2018) - some of whom have given up and some of whom have (presumably) switched to e-cigarettes - the amount of lives, misery and public money saved by a similar reduction in obesity (especially in the young) would surely make it worth it?
 
MarkG said:
I reckon most overweight people know they are overweight and it's not good for them long term and perhaps aren't strong enough to lose weight in a healthy way.
Being constantly reminded and shamed about it is probably not good for their mental health.
If it's a choice between being fat and happy, or fat and unhappy, which is better?
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The same argument can be used for drug addicts, smokers and alcoholics as well but they get 'shamed' by society.
 
Marked Ox said:
The same argument can be used for drug addicts, smokers and alcoholics as well but they get 'shamed' by society.
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Does that argument really land, though?

Drug addicts and alcoholics often have a direct negative effect on their families, friends or wider society. Violence and crime are not strangers to many. Even smokers, before the ban, could negatively affect a non smoker. Obese people visually offend many, apparently, but other than that the criminality that can follow the first two groups is absent and therefore the same public condemnation is inappropriate.
 
OxfordYankee said:
Does that argument really land, though?

Drug addicts and alcoholics often have a direct negative effect on their families, friends or wider society. Violence and crime are not strangers to many. Even smokers, before the ban, could negatively affect a non smoker. Obese people visually offend many, apparently, but other than that the criminality that can follow the first two groups is absent and therefore the same public condemnation is inappropriate.
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Yes, it does. Obese parents fairly frequently have obese kids so they are directly affecting their own kids/family and setting them up with bad life time habits. Obesity is having a direct impact on the NHS services/budget for example. For example, Diabetes costs the NHS 10% of its budget, about 1.5% of the 10% is due to non-preventable Type 1 whereas 8.5% is for Type 2 Diabetes (as per https://www.diabetes.co.uk/cost-of-diabetes.html). One of the major risk factors for Type 2 Diabetes is being overweight. Then chuck in Cancer as in the original article, specially adapted equipment needing to be provided, bed blocking as morbidly obese people need specialist social care/recovery beds causing other people's care being cancelled etc, so it is directly and indirectly affecting other people.

Also, the argument was about shaming causing mental health issues well I'm sure shaming somebody for smoking, taking drugs etc would have the same mental health issues but that seems to be acceptable to shame them. I certainly don't see much, if any, outrage when they get shamed.
 
Marked Ox said:
Yes, it does. Obese parents fairly frequently have obese kids so they are directly affecting their own kids/family and setting them up with bad life time habits. Obesity is having a direct impact on the NHS services/budget for example. For example, Diabetes costs the NHS 10% of its budget, about 1.5% of the 10% is due to non-preventable Type 1 whereas 8.5% is for Type 2 Diabetes (as per https://www.diabetes.co.uk/cost-of-diabetes.html). One of the major risk factors for Type 2 Diabetes is being overweight. Then chuck in Cancer as in the original article, specially adapted equipment needing to be provided, bed blocking as morbidly obese people need specialist social care/recovery beds causing other people's care being cancelled etc, so it is directly and indirectly affecting other people.

Also, the argument was about shaming causing mental health issues well I'm sure shaming somebody for smoking, taking drugs etc would have the same mental health issues but that seems to be acceptable to shame them. I certainly don't see much, if any, outrage when they get shamed.
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I made the point earlier about parents and kids and I agree with you.

As for the NHS stuff, I understand the maths, but those people have paid NI for it, too. Insurance pays out for some and not for others, that's the nature of it. What next, do we stop people going to the NHS for injuries they sustained while taking part in extreme sports or doing something stupid? After all, they did it to themselves, right? Many people are not visibly obese but have conditions caused by dietary choices, how about them?

We should educate and ensure that business does not prey upon the weak, rather than shame anyone. Take a look at a film called 'That Sugar Film', which, if you haven't already seen it, is a real eye opener to the immoral way people are manipulated by food producers.
 
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OxfordYankee said:
I made the point earlier about parents and kids and I agree with you.

As for the NHS stuff, I understand the maths, but those people have paid NI for it, too. Insurance pays out for some and not for others, that's the nature of it. What next, do we stop people going to the NHS for injuries they sustained while taking part in extreme sports or doing something stupid? After all, they did it to themselves, right? Many people are not visibly obese but have conditions caused by dietary choices, how about them?

We should educate and ensure that business does not prey upon the weak, rather than shame anyone. Take a look at a film called 'That Sugar Film', which, if you haven't already seen it, is a real eye opener to the immoral way people are manipulated by food manufacturers.
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I agree education is the way but when that is done, it is remarkable how often those doing the educating/pointing out the facts (ie. Cancer Research for example) get accused of "fat-shaming".

Also, smokers will have paid their taxes/NI, as will drinkers (there are plenty of functioning alcoholics) and plenty of drug takers (not all drugs are from the street of course) and they get shamed for their issue. But those groups get criticised for having access to the NHS for their treatments as well and that seems acceptable.

I'm not saying obese people should be charged or denied access to the NHS, just pointing that there is a direct/indirect impact on other people.

I agree that something has to be done about the food producers as well.
 
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