Fan's View Fan's View 23/24 - No.34: Reading at home

[Paul B]

Fan's View 23/24 - No.34: Reading at home

 

[TailsWeWin]

The most depressing thing to reflect on at the moment is that I am losing the will to care. Earlier in the season at least the league position was exciting (even if the football wasn’t) but now it seems pretty inevitable that we will (deservedly) high-end mid-table.
And like you, Paul, I’m fed up with the ‘he’ll be back in the squad soon’ tosh that gets thrown at us. Why is it that seemingly half of our players are either unfit, not ‘match fit’ or unavailable for unspecified reasons? Why is it that every match produces another injury? Why are some of our “big” signings (Matete, Burey, Goodwin etc) not ready to play 90 minutes?
It’s farcical.

 

[Manorlounger]

Those are some scary figures quoted by @Colin B ! The links to OUFC are a worry as well. Not that I can understand much of the business ins and outs but is it any wonder that Reading fans are anxious for their club.

As for the game, the less said the better?

 

[Sarge]

@Paul B - top fv as per, cheers...one observation ,Reading play in hooped, not striped, shirts

 

[wolvercoteyellow]

Thanks again both. Paul you absolutely nail the current depression. I just don't think Des is tough enough. Colin, that's an eye watering lesson in epic mismanagement!

 

[uptheus]

@Paul B - top fv as per, cheers...one observation ,Reading play in hooped, not striped, shirts

Depends which way the strips go I guess

 

[uptheus]

Can someone explain the concern/impact on Oxford United with Tiger and Horst having business connections with Reading?

Also, what is Reading’s predicament in terms of their assets e.g. stadium/training ground etc?

I know we had concerns with Tiger’s links with Reading when he joined us and the way he asset striped them.

 

[Victor1986]

You have accurately summed up the general mood Paul & Colin's report is very worrying in that it specifies our new stadium director of still having connections with Reading.

 

[Paul B]

@Paul B - top fv as per, cheers...one observation ,Reading play in hooped, not striped, shirts

You're not the first to have noticed that Sarge. Don't know what came over me. Now corrected. Cheers

 

[werthersoriginal]

You're not the first to have noticed that Sarge. Don't know what came over me. Now corrected. Cheers

s**t Oxford City, you're just a s**t Oxford City! (I didn't hear that chant, bit of a missed opportunity).

 

[sonofivan]

Great summary Paul. And an enlightening overview from Colin. I had 0.1% sympathy for Reading and their fans before I read that. It has now gone into negative numbers.

 

[Ewes]

Sums up the general malaise around our club I felt.

A couple of observations -

Colin writes that owner Dai Yongge (cool name for a rock star?) bought their stadium for £24M. So exactly how is our own proposed new stadium going to cost 4 times that?

On Kyle Edwards, he won’t be listed on the club website as he isn’t currently registered to play for us. Registering a player costs £500 a pop (last time I audited a club’s accounts and that was a few years ago) so given his residence in the treatment room I guess we’re saving ourselves a few quid by only registering him once we know he can kick a ball.

On our budget being bigger than Pompey’s, I think we need to compare apples with apples. Our staff wage bill for the last year has included paying a certain KR his monthly wage plus a couple of high player loan fees. Pompey had none of that and that’s before we look at rent paid and stadco consultancy fees paid out. No one really knows the difference between the 2 budgets (even that Maguire bloke) except a shared auditor, the FA and the taxman.

 

[QuietYeller]

Sums up the general malaise around our club I felt.

A couple of observations -

Colin writes that owner Dai Yongge (cool name for a rock star?) bought their stadium for £24M. So exactly how is our own proposed new stadium going to cost 4 times that?

On Kyle Edwards, he won’t be listed on the club website as he isn’t currently registered to play for us. Registering a player costs £500 a pop (last time I audited a club’s accounts and that was a few years ago) so given his residence in the treatment room I guess we’re saving ourselves a few quid by only registering him once we know he can kick a ball.

On our budget being bigger than Pompey’s, I think we need to compare apples with apples. Our staff wage bill for the last year has included paying a certain KR his monthly wage plus a couple of high player loan fees. Pompey had none of that and that’s before we look at rent paid and stadco consultancy fees paid out. No one really knows the difference between the 2 budgets (even that Maguire bloke) except a shared auditor, the FA and the taxman.

Another financial drain is the Findlay deal. 4 year contract undisclosed fee (assume it wasn’t peanuts!)

 

[bdodwell]

Sums up the general malaise around our club I felt.

A couple of observations -

Colin writes that owner Dai Yongge (cool name for a rock star?) bought their stadium for £24M. So exactly how is our own proposed new stadium going to cost 4 times that?

On Kyle Edwards, he won’t be listed on the club website as he isn’t currently registered to play for us. Registering a player costs £500 a pop (last time I audited a club’s accounts and that was a few years ago) so given his residence in the treatment room I guess we’re saving ourselves a few quid by only registering him once we know he can kick a ball.

On our budget being bigger than Pompey’s, I think we need to compare apples with apples. Our staff wage bill for the last year has included paying a certain KR his monthly wage plus a couple of high player loan fees. Pompey had none of that and that’s before we look at rent paid and stadco consultancy fees paid out. No one really knows the difference between the 2 budgets (even that Maguire bloke) except a shared auditor, the FA and the taxman.

 

[PQ]

"Dai Yongge (cool name for a rock star?)"...

...only the good?

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Sums up the general malaise around our club I felt.

A couple of observations -

Colin writes that owner Dai Yongge (cool name for a rock star?) bought their stadium for £24M. So exactly how is our own proposed new stadium going to cost 4 times that?

On Kyle Edwards, he won’t be listed on the club website as he isn’t currently registered to play for us. Registering a player costs £500 a pop (last time I audited a club’s accounts and that was a few years ago) so given his residence in the treatment room I guess we’re saving ourselves a few quid by only registering him once we know he can kick a ball.

On our budget being bigger than Pompey’s, I think we need to compare apples with apples. Our staff wage bill for the last year has included paying a certain KR his monthly wage plus a couple of high player loan fees. Pompey had none of that and that’s before we look at rent paid and stadco consultancy fees paid out. No one really knows the difference between the 2 budgets (even that Maguire bloke) except a shared auditor, the FA and the taxman.

Rebuilding Old Trafford is going to cost 2 billion….2 BILLION!!

That shows how much prices have gone up to build things.

 

[Osleroad]

Rebuilding Old Trafford is going to cost 2 billion….2 BILLION!!

That shows how much prices have gone up to build things.

That IS inflation - thought it was only £1billion yesterday

 

[Steve Gilbert]

That IS inflation - thought it was only £1billion yesterday

Ratcliffe wants Old Trafford to become the 'Wembley of the North'

MIKE KEEGAN AND CHRIS WHEELER: Sir Jim Ratcliffe wants a new Old Trafford to become the 'Wembley of the North' - and may seek public funds to help achieve his dream.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Colin B]

Can someone explain the concern/impact on Oxford United with Tiger and Horst having business connections with Reading?

Also, what is Reading’s predicament in terms of their assets e.g. stadium/training ground etc?

I know we had concerns with Tiger’s links with Reading when he joined us and the way he asset striped them.

In respect of Tiger and Horst (and Jon Clarke) having links with Reading, my personal view is as follows:

Tiger was there before he turned up at Oxford, and that is well known and documented. Some people were aware of a situation with the land around their stadium, but maybe not to the extent that I've reported it, and the existing link between Reading FC and RFC Prop Co. He got Horst involved there at roughly the same time that Horst became involved at Oxford United.

The question it raises in my mind is, why do people (especially property developers) get involved with (or form) property development companies? That's another rhetorical question, as the answer is surely to make money, and there's nothing wrong with that. That RFC Prop Co has borrowed money from Reading FC and Reading FC also has a shareholding in it relating to almost 25% is the thing that I find questionable. Especially as the asset that is being developed by RFC Prop Co formerly belonged to Reading FC.

Do I think they'll do the same thing with us? No, I don't think they will, mostly because it will be impossible to do that at The Triangle due to the covenants and restrictions that will exist in the lease from OCC. I just don't like Directors of our club having a foot in more than one camp, especially if one of the other camps is a local rival, I want them 100% committed to OUFC.

Do I think Horst is a bad guy? No I don't and I know for a fact that he put up the money for us to buy the training ground and was insistent that it was in the name of OUFC, rather than the holding company, unlike certain others who wanted it to be in the name of the holding company, thereby making it easier to use it as collateral in Far Eastern loan markets, away from the glare of the EFL, FA and Companies House.

Regarding Reading's assets that is partially explained by their negative equity situation. They have no assets other than what is on the field of play. They don't own their stadium (they pay £1.5m rent per annum) and don't own their training ground. They were in negative equity to the tune of £63m in 2022 (thought to be over £80m now) although that is only part of the story. Their P&L Reserves were negative £191m and there has been an increase in called up share capital from £1.5m in 2016 to £117m in 2022. This means that Dai has converted some debt to equity, but it seems as if he's now unable, or unwilling to do so anymore.

 

[Colin B]

Sums up the general malaise around our club I felt.

A couple of observations -

Colin writes that owner Dai Yongge (cool name for a rock star?) bought their stadium for £24M. So exactly how is our own proposed new stadium going to cost 4 times that?

On Kyle Edwards, he won’t be listed on the club website as he isn’t currently registered to play for us. Registering a player costs £500 a pop (last time I audited a club’s accounts and that was a few years ago) so given his residence in the treatment room I guess we’re saving ourselves a few quid by only registering him once we know he can kick a ball.

On our budget being bigger than Pompey’s, I think we need to compare apples with apples. Our staff wage bill for the last year has included paying a certain KR his monthly wage plus a couple of high player loan fees. Pompey had none of that and that’s before we look at rent paid and stadco consultancy fees paid out. No one really knows the difference between the 2 budgets (even that Maguire bloke) except a shared auditor, the FA and the taxman.

That was the price for a 20 year old existing stadium, not the cost to build it now.

Football club owners buying the club's stadium have to be seen to be buying at close to market value, as if they inflate the price there are consequences for doing so (see Derby County FC) . So they mostly err on the lower side and the valuation will not reflect the cost of building a new stadium.

It was also for the stadium alone, whereas ours will include ancillary facilities. Furthermore it was before building costs escalated post Covid.

BTW, ours will cost a lot more than four times £24m!!!

 

[Ewes]

That was the price for a 20 year old existing stadium, not the cost to build it now.

Football club owners buying the club's stadium have to be seen to be buying at close to market value, as if they inflate the price there are consequences for doing so (see Derby County FC) . So they mostly userr on the lower side and the valuation will not reflect the cost of building a new stadium.

It was also for the stadium alone, whereas ours will include ancillary facilities. Furthermore it was before building costs escalated post Covid.

BTW, ours will cost a lot more than four times £24m!!!

Thanks Colin.

Just Googled it - their stadium cost £50+M to build plus a further £750K on the pitch itself. So, the owner has bought it for about half cost price, or as you suggest, current value. Presumably this means the club have not only lost this as an asset but have got a pittance in return.

I’m no expert but I’m still struggling to understand the huge construction costs involved. OK, I accept purchasing the land will cost a few bob. Brentford’s stadium was built on prime London land for £70M only a few years ago.

And why is it that commercial buildings like a stadium depreciate in value whereas domestic properties increase? Based on theses 2 examples, I can’t see why our proposed new stadium is expected to cost what people are suggesting.