World Cup Brazil

[bashamwonderland]

Ronaldinho, fat Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Cafu, Roberto Carlos.

I've never seen anything like that Brazil squad. Perhaps that's the rose tinted spectacles of being a child when I saw them, but I still don't think I've seen a team play better football than they did. You can see why they're still overhyped and it's a shame they've lost their unique style.

 

[Scrongo]

Brazil 1970 was the best Brazil team.
Brazil 5 world cups England 1 just saying.

 

[Foley]

Brazil 1970 was the best Brazil team.View attachment 16929View attachment 16930
Brazil 5 world cups England 1 just saying.

Not sure anybody is suggesting that England have done well.
Italy and Germany 4 each. So one in it ( although you would not believe it listening to the media every WC telling you how fantastic Brazil are)

 

[Scrongo]

Not sure anybody is suggesting that England have done well.
Italy and Germany 4 each. So one in it ( although you would not believe it listening to the media every WC telling you how fantastic Brazil are)

Yes they've definitely dropped off recently
Over the top commentators, & pundit's & Press do my head though.. They're still top of the pile , for now just ..

 

[MustardYellow]

He's "won" five Champions Leagues because he's been a long-time Real Madrid squad member.
In those five finals, he wasn't in the squad in 2014, was an unused substitute in 2016, 2017 and 2022 and came off the bench in 2018! Not exactly influential.
And that's why noone is raving about Nacho......

Messi has a pretty unique combination of personal achievements and team achievements. And yes, you can dismiss the Ballon D'Or as being a popularity contest; but the Golden Shoe isn't - it objectively recognizes the top goalscorer in Europe (weighted for the quality of the league) and he's won that six times (CR won 4, noone else has ever won more than 2)

Without doubt, Messi has had a charmed career, and has never had to endure playing on a rubbish team.
But that's true of a lot of players, and none have ever produced at the same level that Messi has as consistently as he has.

Not saying you have to like him; but to dismiss him and overhyped and just a product of the teams he was playing in......well, it doesn't really seem to be backed up by the facts.

My question to you is, if Ronaldo was given the fortunate career that Messi was, do you believe he would’ve won the Golden Shoe just as many times? I’d personally suggest he would’ve won it more!

Ronaldo scored 101 goals in 3 years at a struggling Juventus, and got 21 goal contributions in what was a frankly awful United team - all after the age of 30.

As i say, I agree Messi is a very good player but put most very good players in the positions he’s been in his entire career and they likely do very similar, if not better.

 

[tonyw]

My question to you is, if Ronaldo was given the fortunate career that Messi was, do you believe he would’ve won the Golden Shoe just as many times? I’d personally suggest he would’ve won it more!

Ronaldo scored 101 goals in 3 years at a struggling Juventus, and got 21 goal contributions in what was a frankly awful United team - all after the age of 30.

As i say, I agree Messi is a very good player but put most very good players in the positions he’s been in his entire career and they likely do very similar, if not better.

Well, the first thing I'd say is that Juventus were not exactly a struggling side - they won Serie A two out of the three seasons he played for them, and reached the knockout stages of the Champions League all three years. So Ronaldo played six years at the biggest club in England at the time, nine years at one of the two biggest clubs in Spain and three years at the biggest club in Italy at the time. He was not exactly playing for no-hopers!
By the time he moved back to Man U, he was already 36 - the same age as Messi is now.

And then I would say that I'm not trying to argue that Messi is definitively the best player to have ever played the game. But he is in the conversation - as is Cristiano Ronaldo. And therefore almost by definition, he is not overhyped.

 

[Whingit]

Maybe Messi is overrated, McGuane chose Jack Wilshire over him as the best player he's ever played with. I don't think he is though, I'd pick Messi 7 days a week over Ronaldo as the best player of my lifetime.

 

[MustardYellow]

Nobody can question Messi surely ( as said you don't have to like him)
I am.lucky enough to to remember Pele.
From that day to this the 4 best players I have ever seen have been Pele, Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo.
Messi pips them all- his record is unbelievable. It could be argued that he has been in a fantastic team so has been 'lucky', but he has been a huge contributor in making that team fantastic.
Then the WC with a relatively average team.

If Ronaldo had the career Messi had, I’d 100% argue he’d had done far better than Messi has.

Ronaldo has managed to keep up with Messi starting his career in Portugal, then granted was in 2 great teams in United (at the time) and Madrid, but after that he’s been to a struggling Juventus and a god awful United and has still put in incredible numbers under the circumstances.

Imagine if someone like Suarez was in that Barcelona team almost his entire career? I’d again argue his numbers would be very similar to Messi’s.

As I said, Messi is no doubt a great player but my god has he had it easy, and I think it would be disingenuous to write off the VERY likely possibility that there are countless other players who would’ve performed similarly under the same circumstances.

 

[Foley]

As I said, Messi is no doubt a great player but my god has he had it easy, and I think it would be disingenuous to write off the VERY likely possibility that there are countless other players who would’ve performed similarly under the same circumstances.

Totally disagree. I am sure that Pep wouid disagree with you ( and most other people)
No way would Suaraz have done the same as Messi. When Messi and Suarez player together, Messi scored 60 more goals than Suarez and assisted in 5 more goals. And Suarez was the striker.
There are very few people who think that Messi isn't one if the four best players of all time and you think countless other players would have been as good with the sane teams?

 

[SteMerritt]

Ronaldo never played for United. In fact he only played 1 game against United, and that was a friendly.

 

[Bitter]

I think the Brazil fanfare is based on some sort of nostalgia that they used to represent an almost futuristic, exciting way of playing football. Now that everyone plays that way, there's nothing significant about them (maybe other than how far they've dropped off in recent years!).

Argentina are just one of the vilest teams I've ever seen - very much so cheat to win, as we saw so clearly in the last world cup.

See also 1978 and 1986.....................