Away Match Day Thread 12/03/24 - L1: Bolton Wanderers v OUFC

Swaby39 said:

I don’t think chopping one nervous wreck for another one is going to make the slightest difference.

Also, Cumming didn’t do a whole lot wrong. It should never have got as far as him. Once it does, Leigh just needs to head it out for a corner. I love Greg Leigh but he’s an experienced player who should just take no chances. Why he doesn’t is anybody’s guess, but he is unrecognisable from the player we had in the early part of the season, like so many. Mind you, he probably made save of the season early in the game as well.

Putting Eastwood in is just a complete and utter waste of time. He’ll not help the cause one bit and while Cumming’s distribution hasn’t been great (it was excellent when he joined), he is at least happy to take the ball under pressure. We do not need a nervousness in that department right now. The question is why is a well regarded goalkeeper whose previously performed very well at this level, including for us, hurtled in to a mini form crisis? Why are so many players regressing or not featuring at all? We’re becoming a scrap heap for good players.

Patience for Des has gone far enough. If the players have no interest in giving their best effort/form for the manager then there is only one solution. Putting Des first puts us at risk of another Robinson era.

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Then you back the manager and get rid of the players. Do you think Des is as divisive and toxic as Robbo was at the end of his era?

WEYellow said:

Then you back the manager and get rid of the players. Do you think Des is as divisive and toxic as Robbo was at the end of his era?

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Which costs more?

WEYellow said:

I liked it too, but a sad indictment of the group of players that the latest recruit is the one pushed out to do media duties. We needed a senior figure to face up, captain or vice captain ideally.

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Whilst having a grain of truth - have you ever heard Elliot speak passionately -it wd be a first-

WEYellow said:

Then you back the manager and get rid of the players. Do you think Des is as divisive and toxic as Robbo was at the end of his era?

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Well that depends very much on what they’ve observed of Des and how he conducts himself but seeing as Tim Williams thought Robinson could do no wrong, I find his judge of character extremely worrying. So to kiss goodbye to what was only 6 months ago a very good, cohesive group of players over a manager that’s yet to prove he’s worth the backing is a huge risk to me. It seems to me he’s falling short in every area that’s visible to fans so it’s highly unlikely what we’re seeing is of stark contrast to his day to day work. There’s an obvious fragmentation.

Reality is we can’t just clear out the squad, at least not until the summer, and then we’re setting ourselves back even further in time. We had a manager who pulled that group together and was winning games but we failed to recognise it and left the door open for him to disappear out of. But we had no passengers then and anybody who was, didn’t play. So what’s changed? The players, or their level of engagement with the new manager? The standards etc. Quite obvious what I think. Des might be the nicer bloke and nice and tactful with staff - but the signs are there that the players haven’t bought it. They bought in to the ruthlessness of Manning.

We had 10-12 players playing their best football in months and it’s been dismantled under Des’ leadership over the 6 months since - whatever the cause, that’s a fact. We’ve got one player playing well and he’s only been here a short time. Are we going to break him too? It’s hard for me to see how that is ALL down to the players when they were so recently a good, well organised side putting in maximum effort.

No I don’t think Des is anything like as evil as Robinson, but players don’t just turn to s**t like that if he’s doing everything right. He’s got to get them on side, that’s life as a leader, and he hasn’t.

SirAndyOfCrosby said:

We were excellent.

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We were, and Manning squeezed everything out of the players he had at his disposal.

I still don’t think that was appreciated enough.

We are miles away from them days. That’s down to the manager!!

Think some of the Cumming criticism is harsh.

Not sure how obvious it was on TV, but I thought the 2nd goal (right in front of the away fans) was a foul. Leigh was shielding the ball back to Cumming, before he's pushed into him by the Bolton lad. Shame Leigh didn't make more of it, pretty niave of him.

Not summoned up the courage to watch the highlights yet, but quite a few of the goals looked to be deflected into the corners, wouldn't have blamed him for any really. Made a couple of good saves too.

Leysboy said:

We were, and Manning squeezed everything out of the players he had at his disposal.

I still don’t think that was appreciated enough.

We are miles away from them days. That’s down to the manager!!

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I think some of the fans who don't appreciate how good we were under Manning didn't get to many away games? They missed the control, discipline and will to win we had at Derby, Barnsley and Stevenage.

Having said that, some of our supporters were genuinely complaining about coasting and not turning the screw at home to Shrewsbury, a game we won 3-0. So maybe we've got what we deserve.

Leysboy said:

We were, and Manning squeezed everything out of the players he had at his disposal.

I still don’t think that was appreciated enough.

We are miles away from them days. That’s down to the manager!!

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Manning was the first to admit that it wasn't down to him as an individual manager, it was down to the (pretty much hand-picked) team around him and he just happened to be the figurehead of it (who would ultimately carry the can).

The same logic needs to be applied to Buckingham and the "team" around him. Successful management is never down to an individual effort - it is ALWAYS a team effort, but one person will ultimately carry the responsibility for that success or failure.

dickwalton1964 said:

I don’t care who the manager is on Saturday - major changes required. Thorniley, Burey, Bennett, Goodwin, Matete all start. I would seriously consider Eastwood too, Cumming is a liability but Eastwood is a lesser one in my opinion.

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Ah yes, the classic '12 year old playing Championship/Football Manager' response to a defeat...

Fine them all too. Transfer-list them. And when the reserves invariably lose the next game - just reboot.

Simples.

Yellow There! said:

The stat that @SirAndyOfCrosby put is so telling.
Not a single win against top half (not top six or top 4) opposition.
I am by no means a Des hater, but support staff or no support staff, whatever excuses, that is simply disgraceful.
Even under meltdown Karl last season we went to Bolton and won 3-1.
It’s so disappointing, when this season promised so much.

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Agree with the rest of your post but Robinson was banned for that game and Mous was in charge. That weekend Robinson was back in charge and we were awful in a 1-1 home draw with Fleetwood, I recall talking to a poster on here at half time who had been at Bolton and couldn't understand what had changed between Tuesday and Saturday.

Mind you, that draw with Fleetwood was a lot better than last nights debacle.

behindthegoal said:

I don't give with this post, would you be so nice if the result was reversed
Mellow dramatic waffle

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Always one

Joey said:

Agree with the rest of your post but Robinson was banned for that game and Mous was in charge. That weekend Robinson was back in charge and we were awful in a 1-1 home draw with Fleetwood, I recall talking to a poster on here at half time who had been at Bolton and couldn't understand what had changed between Tuesday and Saturday.

Mind you, that draw with Fleetwood was a lot better than last nights debacle.

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Mous, wonder what happen to him?

QR said:

Mous, wonder what happen to him?

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Look what you could have won !!

dickwalton1964 said:

Yes, I agree, it’s not exactly ideal. I just think Eastwood might be that louder, familiar voice that’s needed and I genuinely don’t think there’s much difference in their ability.

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?

He's played 288 times for us and you have come to the conclusion that Eastwood is a vocal 'keeper? Weird.

Foley said:

Really?
We were awful, but I am amazed that anybody would suggest that Bolton weren't very good .
Sheehan was outstanding ( and a few more were excellent)

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The point is they didn’t need to be good and had several gears to move up,for me they played ok but we were absolute s**t.im not saying Bolton aren’t good,for me they are the best team in the league.

Is the crap man still there?

Oxford84 said:

The point is they didn’t need to be good and had several gears to move up,for me they played ok but we were absolute s**t.im not saying Bolton aren’t good,for me they are the best team in the league.

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It’s one of those slightly cliche games where Bolton were exceptional but we did nothing to make that difficult. We were so bad it gave them permission to be brilliant.

We’ve talked a lot about plans and strategies in games and Bolton approached the game exactly as they did when we played them at the Kassam. They murdered us with the overlap and always had the spare man. They believe in what they do and the players know it works. All things Des has not instilled in our players.

The fact we went in to that game and appeared so stunned by what they did is an embarrassment. What’s worse is we didn’t have an answer in the second half either. We got worse. I’m afraid he’s just not it. He needs to cut his teeth and this isn’t the club for that.

Canadian_Yellow said:

1. Tactically, what was Manning doing with this team that Des isn’t? The formation seems to be the same. The players are more or less the same. There are certain things that I can see as a coach and have picked up from listening to others but I’d love to hear the big tactical differences others see.

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I think there’s a host of differences:

• Beadle was our best player. His handling and his ability with the ball at his feet made it a lot easier to defend deep and look to counter.
• We invite teams to cross the ball into the box. Full backs deep and wingers not helping all that much. One I attend with thinks this is deliberate - if opposition full backs go forwards, your long ball out to a winger should hit the spot they vacated. Regardless of intent, Northampton and Orient had us pinned in at times - not just deep but narrow. Bolton scored their first by having a man over. Derby set up actual physical campsites with brick outbuildings and running water down our flanks. We aren’t good enough to withstand the pressure - aggravated by the loss of Beadle.
• Breaking the press. McGuane and Brannagan coming deep to stop a CB and FB getting penned in, receiving the ball under pressure and facing the wrong way, and opening up the other side of the field was the most common pattern of play. McGuane is anonymous and Brannagan has not been shackled in the same way - instead encouraged to unleash his inner Gerrard with long passes and shots. This hints at a key difference in approach - Manning took a more mechanical, formulaic approach to the game than any Oxford manager I have seen. This video is the best illustration of it. He provides a “how to” guide of simple, clear instructions for each game situation. The claim that Des is less detailed in player instructions rings true to me.
• Manning used Harris to work the channels and open up space for the attacking trio behind. Des uses more long balls. We have nothing at CAM which is focusing us to the wingers (there are obvious limitations to the aerial game of Ty and Dale) and leaves Harris tasked with getting on the end of crosses instead.
• Bolton did not respect our counter attack. We have replaced a rapid, taller player (Mills) with an industrious, tricky, shorter player (Dale). For all his qualities, Dale will not pin a LWB in like Mills. He will not deal with long balls as well. We tested Bolton twice with Harris and Murphy played behind in the first half, and both times they were able to recover.
• Manning also won the ball up high with targeted pressing. I saw some better efforts last night, by Dale and Harris in particular, but let down by the three central midfielders - RR in particular - actually sealing the deal. Bolton looked indecisive when the ball was right at the back, and could have been caught.

So in summary, I see overconfidence in our defence under sustained pressure, underperformance in midfield forcing us to play long and wide - and hurting our attacking effectiveness, and wingers less suited to the new roles.

Lost Marbles said:

They missed the control, discipline and will to win we had at Derby, Barnsley and Stevenage.

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Just soak in for a moment those 3 results. All wins, away from home. 8 goals scored as well. Remarkable. O’Donkor your only alternative striker. Sam Long at right back (pending Stevens becoming decent). Murphy nowhere to be seen. Flapping hamstrings to be managed all over the squad. Teenagers making up a good portion of the squad, some with no L1 experience.

The home draw vs Blackpool and away win vs Lincoln are suddenly looking more crucial as well because with them we’d be another place further down.

We really have dined out on a fantastic period under Manning for months now. I personally think we’ll struggle to stay in the top 10. I really don’t see what a pre season or a clear out of the squad will achieve. Manning wouldn’t have signed or kept around players with crap attitudes - he was obsessed with behaviours. Des is not the man to invest more time and money in to. We have places to be.

So summing up, we have gone from a team with a strategy under Manning to a bunch of complete misfits, both players and management.
Agree the loss of Beadle has been huge, but there was a plan, of how we attacked and how we defended. We never gave up the midfield battle. Everyone who played in each game knew their role. Yes there were mistakes and sometimes it didn't work but it had structure and mostly did.
Now players don't appear understand their roles, we have given up trying to win the midfield battle. Defensively we look a complete shambles and other than breaking quickly and getting it out wide that's how we attack.. The problem is we have nobody who can regularly get onto the crosses.
Just as important though was when Des came in he said he wanted to play an attractive style. Yet what we have is the most boring team we have had in several years.