General 3pm "blackout" Yes, No or Maybe?

[werthersoriginal]

I don't disagree with most of what you said, and although not an exile it us easier for me to justify a tenner and hiding away from the kids for a couple of hours rather than the expense and (more importantly) the time to travel all over the country.

However, I would say that this decision would not have been NMcW's alone and he will just be making a comment on behalf of the club. My understanding was that the question about streaming all games live was brought up in the closed season, but very few supported it. It's all well and good that the Plymouth chair is talking about have an in-house channel but even that can't get around the 3pm blackout.

I hope that there is a way to change this whilst also protecting match day attendance, but think that it needs to be carefully put together to prevent a number of Sunderland social club streaming to several hundred fans who would otherwise travel away etc.

Sunderland? Their fans are nutters, so keen. Online viewing would be a bonus to them as more want to go than can get tickets to many away games.

 

[SteMerritt]

Two out of three

» AdHoc

www.rageonline.co.uk

Thanks for that, I've taken our home League games (cut off at 2006/7, before that we are looking at Sunderland PPV experiment in the 90s). I've added in the average attendance for the season, also taken from Rage Online, and worked out the differences. We seem to have an attendance bump when live games are on based on this very small sample...

 

[Essexyellows]

We should note that, technically, we started this with the first PTV (Pay To View) game vs Sunderland............. and what dull dismal affair that was!

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

There is an excellent twitter feed that explained why the 3pm blackout protects clubs like ours.

It's fairly long but does touch on a number of points that make more sense than we may initially think.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1435189141440974854

One obvious contradiction to this is - why not allow people to get Ifollow passes on Oxford games which are a sellout?

- Nothing to do with PL viewers or not
- It won’t stop people attending as they can’t go anyway

 

[Emilio]

Here's how it is. If i were available to go to the match, I would not stay home and watch it on a screen. If I cannot go (which is quite often) then I would like to have iFollow available. I don't see this affecting home attendences too much, but it will probably diminish travelling support, as sometimes it may be that bit more temptibg to watch it from your livingroom than to travel to a Fleetwood on a stormy Saturday, the same day, for example, Wolves are playing away at Man U, so there will be a lot of congestion on the M6...

 

[Jolteon]

I don't disagree with most of what you said, and although not an exile it us easier for me to justify a tenner and hiding away from the kids for a couple of hours rather than the expense and (more importantly) the time to travel all over the country.

However, I would say that this decision would not have been NMcW's alone and he will just be making a comment on behalf of the club. My understanding was that the question about streaming all games live was brought up in the closed season, but very few supported it. It's all well and good that the Plymouth chair is talking about have an in-house channel but even that can't get around the 3pm blackout.

I hope that there is a way to change this whilst also protecting match day attendance, but think that it needs to be carefully put together to prevent a number of Sunderland social club streaming to several hundred fans who would otherwise travel away etc.

100%, it wasn't supposed to be a jab at NMcW specifically and I'm sure the data within the club is what's driving the opinion - but I think that the blackout is being backed by fear of what COULD happen before there's any evidence gathered to suggest what WILL happen. At the moment the blackout is protecting clubs from the worst case scenario without the opportunity being given to see if the worst case scenario will come to fruition or if actually clubs will be similarly placed financially or potentially even better off. Personally, I think a one season test run, outside of Covid times, with backing from the EFL is required to see what the actual facts are. Put the fans in control and give them the chance to show that the clubs will be backed even with streaming available. Then the clubs can see the affect and together with the EFL decide what's best for future seasons.

 

[Scotchegg]

One obvious contradiction to this is - why not allow people to get Ifollow passes on Oxford games which are a sellout?

- Nothing to do with PL viewers or not
- It won’t stop people attending as they can’t go anyway

That's a great idea and I hope that this is where I think we could make a start, particularly for away games.

Once away followings have been exceeded, those who are registered through the club can have the option of buying a matchday pass (possibly even at the same cost as the game itself). That way we still take 1000 to Wimbledon but the same number again get to watch at home. If half a dozen mates watch it together it doesn't matter, because they're still contributing more than they would have anyway.

 

[Sarge]

One obvious contradiction to this is - why not allow people to get Ifollow passes on Oxford games which are a sellout?

- Nothing to do with PL viewers or not
- It won’t stop people attending as they can’t go anyway

good start point , which I sort of agree with

How would 'sellout' be defined ? .... away allocation sold out? ..... home allocation sold out? .... home and away allocation sold out?
maybe ifollow avail if away allocation sold out for away games would make sense, as they'll be many this season I think - perhaps a bit more flexible for home game ticket sales.... there's many many more UK based exiles who are unable for many valid reasons to make it to every match- ifollow being available would supplement OUFCs home match income by more than enough extra IMO.... perhaps if more than , say 5k or 6k tickets are sold (inc STs ), then make ifollow available for Saturday home matches

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

Good thread. Most British football administrators are closed minded and clueless when it comes to digital. They're still in a world of turnstiles Vs broadcast media. McWilliams seems a decent bloke but everything he says in this article is based on guesswork, tired assumptions and shows a real lack of imagination. Kudos to Plymouth for at least opening the question publicly.

It's unlikely clubs and the EFL will get their act together and work on a long term digital strategy but if they ever did there's a world of possibilities to not just protect our unique pyramid but strengthen it and solve a load of looming financial disasters too, especially for smaller clubs.

As a start point something like a half-season test with straight 50/50 home&away financial split across one division would probably work to get a good enough baseline on attendance impact and supporter behaviour to build a business and tech plan from.

The blockers here are formidable though.

Sky's influence and financial clout. To break this would involve a big hit of short term pain for long term gain

Need for consensus among large majority of clubs who can't even agree on issues like current wage caps let alone the digital future of the game.

Legacy business models, processes and mindsets everywhere and built up over a century or more. In most sectors nearly every success moving forward on digital has been at least as much about the courage to abandon the old as building the new.

Limited scope, power and vision of governing bodies to understand and resolve the above.

In the meantime I'll continue to watch ifollow coverage behind a vpn with the rest of my family at a silly low price as well as attending 30ish live games home and away. But by running things as they are our club and those we play against are making a fraction of the income they could and are missing dozens of chances to expand and grow.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

That's a great idea and I hope that this is where I think we could make a start, particularly for away games.

Once away followings have been exceeded, those who are registered through the club can have the option of buying a matchday pass (possibly even at the same cost as the game itself). That way we still take 1000 to Wimbledon but the same number again get to watch at home. If half a dozen mates watch it together it doesn't matter, because they're still contributing more than they would have anyway.

But who gets the revenue from away followings?

If it follows the same principle as those actually going (and why wouldn't it), the home club obviously gets it all (with exception of cup games). I can see a big argument would ensue on who is entitled to what!

The only way the club will benefit is by allowing extra home fans who can't go to watch and pocketing their extra tenner/ticket price.

And why aren't the FA, Prem League and Football League moving with the times to at least experiment with this as @SteMerritt suggests?

Well....because they are the FA, EPL and EFL....obvs!

 

[Wandering Yellow]

That is all hypothetical though. Why not actually try it, instead of falling back on old thinking and Guesswork?

I'm not averse to trying it but I did find that Twitter thread a very interesting read

 

[SteMerritt]

But who gets the revenue from away followings?

If it follows the same principle as those actually going (and why wouldn't it), the home club obviously gets it all (with exception of cup games). I can see a big argument would ensue on who is entitled to what!

The only way the club will benefit is by allowing extra home fans who can't go to watch and pocketing their extra tenner/ticket price.

And why aren't the FA, Prem League and Football League moving with the times to at least experiment with this as @SteMerritt suggests?

Well....because they are the FA, EPL and EFL....obvs!

I think a 75% Home 25% Away profit split would be fair enough, then when you have, for example, a game like Accrington v Sunderland, where you'd imagine there would be quite a lot of streaming revenue from away fans generated, the smaller club would get a decent benefit to it. Maybe even go to 60%-40%.

 

[Sarge]

wonder if this ifollow or not to follow situation could be a 'job' for the eventually elected Fans Council?.... or if its a subject that's not permitted within their (controlled) mandate?

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

There is an excellent twitter feed that explained why the 3pm blackout protects clubs like ours.

It's fairly long but does touch on a number of points that make more sense than we may initially think.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1435189141440974854

This is a good thread about the risks of abandoning the blackout carelessly and without fresh thinking. But it's also the kind of short term cost/benefit argument which has seen many huge businesses fail over the last decade and which will do for many more in the next few years.

I was particularly frustrated by his assumption that removing the blackout necessarily means that there are live games showing every Saturday on general subscription services like sky or even free to air on the BBC. That's just a choice and one that no sensible smaller club would support. Just a tiny bit of creative thinking about the difference between allowing broadcast Vs only club-specific subscription streaming services undermines swathes of his logic.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of tensions and complexities here and he does a good job of highlighting them but to conclude that the status quo is the only answer is madness

 

[werthersoriginal]

This is a good thread about the risks of abandoning the blackout carelessly and without fresh thinking. But it's also the kind of short term cost/benefit argument which has seen many huge businesses fail over the last decade and which will do for many more in the next few years.

I was particularly frustrated by his assumption that removing the blackout necessarily means that there are live games showing every Saturday on general subscription services like sky or even free to air on the BBC. That's just a choice and one that no sensible smaller club would support. Just a tiny bit of creative thinking about the difference between allowing broadcast Vs only club-specific subscription streaming services undermines swathes of his logic.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of tensions and complexities here and he does a good job of highlighting them but to conclude that the status quo is the only answer is madness

I don't think I ever watch a whole game live on TV if it's not OUFC or an international tournament. I don't have Sky or BT Sport and don't miss the games that used to be on, though I did formerly watch the odd European match. But maybe I'm unusual. I still enjoy highlights.

 

[Malc]

In Holland the weekend matches are spread out like the premiershit and most of the matches are live on national tv. But the stadiums are full nearly all the time. This is about the Dutch "Premier league"
But the next (and only other professional league) plays mainly on Friday evening all at the same time. Up to 3 of those matches are live on 3 different stations but those stadiums are nearly always full.
Looking at what has happened here with televised matches I agree with Steve that it must be worth a trial period on iFollow at 3pm.

 

[Marked Ox]

One obvious contradiction to this is - why not allow people to get Ifollow passes on Oxford games which are a sellout?

- Nothing to do with PL viewers or not
- It won’t stop people attending as they can’t go anyway

The PL clubs will then say "well we should be able to do that" which the argument then leads to affecting Oxford crowds in the longer term so PL viewers have plenty to do with it, especially the young/kids who could be OUFC's future supporters.

 

[Scotchegg]

This is a good thread about the risks of abandoning the blackout carelessly and without fresh thinking. But it's also the kind of short term cost/benefit argument which has seen many huge businesses fail over the last decade and which will do for many more in the next few years.

I was particularly frustrated by his assumption that removing the blackout necessarily means that there are live games showing every Saturday on general subscription services like sky or even free to air on the BBC. That's just a choice and one that no sensible smaller club would support. Just a tiny bit of creative thinking about the difference between allowing broadcast Vs only club-specific subscription streaming services undermines swathes of his logic.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of tensions and complexities here and he does a good job of highlighting them but to conclude that the status quo is the only answer is madness

I agree with your assessment. I posted the thread as I felt it raised a number of questions and looked at alternative views against what many may think is the easy option to abandon the 3pm blackout. However, you're right, football does need to adapt in order to develop new ways to attract fans/viewers.

An option to increase revenue would be to raise the cost of a matchday pass but include an e-programme. Also clubs could develop sponsorship of their online packages with discounts through fast food providers/deliveroo etc. The @greatunclekip special Oxford United matchday experience in partnership with KFC!!! Introduce virtual mascots or stream additional material designed specifically for younger fans etc. If we get this right, it can reach out to a much wider fan base that increases interest and provides a more sustainable future for clubs.

However, the risk remains that it could impact on match day attendance and revenue which is why I can accept time to think this through. But it's not going away and I think it will only be a matter of time before we can choose many different ways that we'll be able to see our team.

 

[ThatSlopesATwelfthMan]

I'm not saying that we're better than other clubs, just that we've pretty much seen 4000+ season ticket holders through thick and thin. That level of loyalty is hard to break, and therefore I think that we'd still get decent numbers at home games regardless of streaming options.

But there are no guarantees and a 10% drop off in match day attendance would need to see a 25% increase in iFollow passes to maintain the same level of income.

It's not impossible to find a solution, but equally it's not as easy to take a risk on one of our only revenue sources.

I agree with your assessment. I posted the thread as I felt it raised a number of questions and looked at alternative views against what many may think is the easy option to abandon the 3pm blackout. However, you're right, football does need to adapt in order to develop new ways to attract fans/viewers.

An option to increase revenue would be to raise the cost of a matchday pass but include an e-programme. Also clubs could develop sponsorship of their online packages with discounts through fast food providers/deliveroo etc. The @greatunclekip special Oxford United matchday experience in partnership with KFC!!! Introduce virtual mascots or stream additional material designed specifically for younger fans etc. If we get this right, it can reach out to a much wider fan base that increases interest and provides a more sustainable future for clubs.

However, the risk remains that it could impact on match day attendance and revenue which is why I can accept time to think this through. But it's not going away and I think it will only be a matter of time before we can choose many different ways that we'll be able to see our team.

Good points all. Although it's limited and not had enough investment down the years the ifollow infrastructure is actually a pretty decent start point and could go in all kinds of directions. If we were to see any loosening one thing they could consider would be a different price for low res mobile streaming vs higher res streams for screens and smart TVs. Tried and tested tech and works commercially for Now TV and many others to make sure individuals get a good deal but families and groups pay more.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

In Holland the weekend matches are spread out like the premiershit and most of the matches are live on national tv. But the stadiums are full nearly all the time. This is about the Dutch "Premier league"
But the next (and only other professional league) plays mainly on Friday evening all at the same time. Up to 3 of those matches are live on 3 different stations but those stadiums are nearly always full.
Looking at what has happened here with televised matches I agree with Steve that it must be worth a trial period on iFollow at 3pm.

Is it just me who sort of loves the idea of Friday night matches?
Imagine Oxford v Swindon on a Friday night. It would be absolute carnage.