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[QR]

Provide just one example of this specific thing happening to this specific race at a specific age whilst being pepper sprayed and handcuffed. Because thats a fair question?!?!

I can't see why it isn't.

That said I could be called out on one point that I've just appreciated... . (trying to be open and honest here)... I've assumed the cop firing the pepper spray was not black. That may not be so and if so, I'd admit, it may put a dent in my 'racist' shout. Time will tell.

 

[chuckbert]

I can't see why it isn't.

That said I could be called out on one point that I've just appreciated... . (trying to be open and honest here)... I've assumed the cop firing the pepper spray was not black. That may not be so and if so, I'd admit, it may put a dent in my 'racist' shout. Time will tell.

... And would be a great example of systemic racism (which others on here don’t think exists).
Not a criticism of you QR, but a really good illustration. I would also consider myself positively anti-racist yet it didn’t cross my mind that this copper might be black.
That is the whole difference between individual racism and systemic racism in a nutshell.

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

Worth noting here in the US that a significant number of the acts carried out by the police and described as systemically racist have been carried out by non-white officers.

Not to say of course white officers don’t carry out these acts, but the parameter does seem to have shifted to a place where I find it confusing to differentiate between aggressive acts by police versus systemically racist acts by police

 

[Essexyellows]

Is accepting reality the same as lack of empathy?

I`ve lived a life where racism has been rife and horrific in the 70`s/80`s .......especially at football.

Things have changed immensely and in a positive way, because people came together.

So racism should be challenged 100%. I think we all have got that bit.

However challenging the perception of racism is wrong if it is not the genuine issue, people are looking at the wrong thing.

In the case of the child being pepper sprayed it is police brutality that must be challenged.

In the case of George Floyd it is police brutality that needs to be challenged.

Or are folk saying if either victim was white it would be fine?? Of course not.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

In this instance, why did the officer not stop and think this would be perceived as racism and think twice about their actions?

To do that to a 9 year old girl is wrong, which I think everyone can agree...can't we?

To not stop and think how those actions (rightly or wrongly) might be perceived, poses a more troubling question for me....whether it smacks of institutional racism or just institutional bullying and an inappropriate use of force towards a minor.

 

[Junior_1]

Back to the topic of Oxford players taking the knee/raising a fist, and people making assumptions about the reason behind this. The general response was "why not ask those involved" - so I have spoken with the club as stalking appears to be my thing!

I won't disclose the full exchange, but there was a full squad meeting to discuss the stand against racism and the taking of the knee. There have been no team orders and everyone is able to express their support in any way they like. The club are united in their response and whilst Mide and Hally may raise a fist, there is absolutely no sinister or political intent from either player. It is their personal choice how they express their support and its entirely their decision if they wish to discuss this publically, but no one should read anything into whether they say anything or not.

The club are fully aware that addressing racism in and out of the game is no easy fix and there are discussions about how they can do more within the community, and how they can dedicate more time to giving this work the coverage it deserves.

Karl spoke after the Bristol Rovers game and a link to some of what he said is below.

I know that I'm a glass spilling over kind of optimistic guy, but I honestly think that the club have dealt with this and so many things through the last 12 months in an understated by consistently positive manner. Some may disagree with the visual or written statements, but I'm proud to support a club that allows players to be themselves, and the fact that others support that shows a real unity throughout the club.

https://www.oufc.co.uk/news/2021/february/oxford-united-and-bristol-rovers-take-the-knee/

That’s all out in the public domain so anyone can put that rambling into a post.

My question wasn’t about the squad taking a knee, we’ve established the reason from that from the many posts from the club and the statements etc.

My question was just one, why does Hall (not Hally or Mide) and Shodipo, as I don’t know them and nether do you. Andy Taylor at the club will come in contact with them, likewise Long via a family member, so to use those words to make your self seem itk is a bit sad. If I’m wrong on those two, please do correct me and I’ll retract that sentence.

So the question!

When taking the knee, why raise their fist whilst doing so. What does it mean to them as individuals. All the squad and club are in agreement with the stand of taking the knee as we’ve read from the various posts by them so that’s fair enough, but no other players do this salute, why is that?

So to report back, I’ve had no response from Mr Mac (he was my teacher at school so that’s what I knew him as) to an email like was suggested.

I’ll give it a few days before sending again, likewise approaching the clubs Twitter..

I also sent the question into the 5 min forum on Radio Oxford on Thursday but that wasn’t read out for whatever reason.
Not sure who is the guest week but will send again if anyone may be able to give an answer or at the very least, report one back.

Have a nice day. [emoji106]

 

[QR]

Is accepting reality the same as lack of empathy?

I`ve lived a life where racism has been rife and horrific in the 70`s/80`s .......especially at football.

Things have changed immensely and in a positive way, because people came together.

So racism should be challenged 100%. I think we all have got that bit.

However challenging the perception of racism is wrong if it is not the genuine issue, people are looking at the wrong thing.

In the case of the child being pepper sprayed it is police brutality that must be challenged.

In the case of George Floyd it is police brutality that needs to be challenged.

Or are folk saying if either victim was white it would be fine?? Of course not.

Many instances of black people being shot by police for, in your words, noncompliance v white mob not being shot for noncompliance (save the woman breaking into the House Chamber) at the Capitol.

Is that institutional racism or do the police need to be verbally racist for it to be racist?

 

[Essexyellows]

In this instance, why did the officer not stop and think this would be perceived as racism and think twice about their actions?

To do that to a 9 year old girl is wrong, which I think everyone can agree...can't we?

To not stop and think how those actions (rightly or wrongly) might be perceived, poses a more troubling question for me....whether it smacks of institutional racism or just institutional bullying and an inappropriate use of force towards a minor.

As I said it is an police brutality problem........ and an American problem.
Both sides of the equation are balanced against a positive outcome.
The police fear the criminals as they can easily be armed so they start on the front foot and if the person they are engaging goes front foot as well the outcome is going downhill very quickly.

They need some conflict resolution training.....

 

[Mojofilter]

It's demonstrably worse in the states, for sure, but then that might be simply because everyone has guns rather than because we are not as racist.

Stats around UK police brutality, stop and search and coverups of police violence aren't easy reading either.

The police as a service needs pretty drastic reform anyway, the world of crime has changed so much and it doesn't feel like the police can respond to that in time as it looks today.

 

[Essexyellows]

And so it goes on.......... if in doubt it`s racism.
Look out the White Hart & the White Horse...

Greene King Black Boy pubs renamed in 'anti-racist' move

A pub chain's boss said research found people felt some of its premises' names were racist.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

In this instance, why did the officer not stop and think this would be perceived as racism and think twice about their actions?

To do that to a 9 year old girl is wrong, which I think everyone can agree...can't we?

To not stop and think how those actions (rightly or wrongly) might be perceived, poses a more troubling question for me....whether it smacks of institutional racism or just institutional bullying and an inappropriate use of force towards a minor.

I think that’s a great question. And I think it hits one of the deepest issues we have in all of this and why it’s so sad that we are talking about identity politics . Because surely a cop shouldn’t see race or be having to think about race. It should be an equal reaction for everyone. The moment they have to start making decisions on political basis or public perception rather than core training principles we are in trouble.

In this case I’d be more concerned about the excessive use of force against a minor. And that’s not to say this isn’t subconscious bias (or even racism) but they’d surely have to be very dumb in this environment to be making those choices. We are also losing the equivalent comparisons as they don’t gain traction but they’re out there if you care to look for them. The real question is subconscious bias, proportional numbers between groups and cultural norms. Those are far harder to get under the skin of and answer as questions. If you watch CNN we have a big problem. If you look at the FBI data...it doesn’t shout significant bias.

another factor now is the sheer level of scrutiny of every act made by police. Whoop whoop for camera phones. We have far more visibility of the most risible acts and they are quickly highlighted for global attention. What we don’t show are the millions of daily police interactions each day which occurs between races / police that don’t have a single problem. It would make s**t viewing. We see the exceptions.

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

And so it goes on.......... if in doubt it`s racism.
Look out the White Hart & the White Horse...

Greene King Black Boy pubs renamed in 'anti-racist' move

A pub chain's boss said research found people felt some of its premises' names were racist.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think the rename makes sense. I’m far from one to agree with cancel culture but in this case there is no knowledge of the origin and the cosmetics are bad. Nobody walking by should need a history degree in order to not feel uncomfortable. Rename them and move on.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

It's demonstrably worse in the states, for sure, but then that might be simply because everyone has guns rather than because we are not as racist.

Stats around UK police brutality, stop and search and coverups of police violence aren't easy reading either.

The police as a service needs pretty drastic reform anyway, the world of crime has changed so much and it doesn't feel like the police can respond to that in time as it looks today.

Risking the wrath of Prof. Big Ron for my infamous man on the street opinions, having spend some time in the South of the States I'd say there is much more of an issue around racism there. That's not to say the States isn't full of lovely great people. I think the history there has left things slightly different, it also seemed to me there was less mixing between the races than there is in the UK.

The UK police are some of the best in the world in my opinion. They do an incredibly tough job, with lots of people desperate to undermine them at every turn.

 

[holdsteady]

If I was a copper in the US I would be on edge and make rash decisions, the gun culture over there makes every interaction they have potentially fatal, not my idea of a fun job.

The US probably does have more of a race problem than here, for historic and geographical reasons, but I can’t help but think that a lot of these police shootings etc are a lot to do with the gun control issues over there.

 

[cassox]

The only police shooting that wasnt deserved and was murder was the poor bloke crawling in the hotel hallway and was shot .....most definate murder,most are just drugged up fools or think they wont shoot....

 

[Scotchegg]

The only police shooting that wasnt deserved and was murder was the poor bloke crawling in the hotel hallway and was shot .....most definate murder,most are just drugged up fools or think they wont shoot....

Bit rich coming from a fool who has been drugged up on numerous occasions!!

 

[cassox]

Bit rich coming from a fool who has been drugged up on numerous occasions!!

ha ha ha ha aint you got some young inmate to abuse and bully??? oooooo look at me with my long keychain and big bunchve keys.

 

[Scotchegg]

That’s all out in the public domain so anyone can put that rambling into a post.

My question wasn’t about the squad taking a knee, we’ve established the reason from that from the many posts from the club and the statements etc.

My question was just one, why does Hall (not Hally or Mide) and Shodipo, as I don’t know them and nether do you. Andy Taylor at the club will come in contact with them, likewise Long via a family member, so to use those words to make your self seem itk is a bit sad. If I’m wrong on those two, please do correct me and I’ll retract that sentence.

So the question!

When taking the knee, why raise their fist whilst doing so. What does it mean to them as individuals. All the squad and club are in agreement with the stand of taking the knee as we’ve read from the various posts by them so that’s fair enough, but no other players do this salute, why is that?

So to report back, I’ve had no response from Mr Mac (he was my teacher at school so that’s what I knew him as) to an email like was suggested.

I’ll give it a few days before sending again, likewise approaching the clubs Twitter..

I also sent the question into the 5 min forum on Radio Oxford on Thursday but that wasn’t read out for whatever reason.
Not sure who is the guest week but will send again if anyone may be able to give an answer or at the very least, report one back.

Have a nice day. [emoji106]

I have said that it is down to each individual how they express their support, and it is their choice whether they wish to talk about it or not. Both Messrs Hall and Shodipo (I will now refer to all associate members of the football club in formal terms so not to look matey and sad!!) are on twitter and instagram and you're more than welcome to approach either for their views. However, they do not owe anyone an explanation and very clearly have the full support of the club and their team mates in their actions - and that is good enough for me.

And you'll be amazed at how boring my detective work was to get an answer from the club! No hiding in bushes or secret codes in invisible ink, just a simple email to the club who were very happy to talk about ways in which they are using the clubs platform to support inclusion in the community*. So retract away!! Maybe Mr Mac (oh friend!!) doesn't have such fond memories of schooling junior Junior and is ignoring your email!

Anyway, as you don't want to take my word for it, and the club are not replying to you, I guess you either have to accept this or sulk away to yourself. Because I've yet to see a groundswell of support for your fist raising agenda!


* happy to forward relevant emails on to @Malc @SteMerritt or @Eaststandboy to confirm legitimacy of this communication if any of you would like to message me your email addresses!

 

[Junior_1]

Look matey!

You don’t know them, we all know that, you wanting to be known as something you’re not towards all things OUFC is laughable!!

I also know how you go about attempting to get your info and it’s also known by members of the club whom passes stuff to you.

Anyway, I’ll happily mail the address you did and ask the question i posed about the players mentioned raising a fist whilst taking a knee. The rest of what you said has been answered previously and is not relevant to what I asked.

Am on an a private account on Twitter and don’t follow either of them mentioned. I don’t use Instagram.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

A statement from the Brentford dressing room:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1360671476572160003