National News Official 2019 General Election Thread

Anthomic said:
This was fake news at best and it was probably staged. Apparently the kid started off in a chair and was moved to the floor by his mother as he was not comfortable.
He had flue was given antibiotics and sent home. In other words he should not have been there in the first place he should have been taken to his GP. People like this are part of the problem. As for fake news have they not heard of Isaac Newton, drips work by gravity they don't work if they are lying on the floor.
Click to expand...

State of this post. Posts twaddle about the story being fake news (it wasn't) and gets three likes for it. Makes up some nonsense about the kid's mother being 'the problem' too. You want fake news, social media-bullshit sharing, misinformed and unchallenged crap then look no further than this post.

I don't have kids but I do know that the flu (if he had a problem with 'flue' he should definitely be in hospital!) can be horrible for them. She did the right thing in taking him to hospital where he received the care he needed.
 
Gary Baldi said:
So how in the hell are Corbyn and the Labour party not walking this election?
Click to expand...

I wonder that on a daily basis. I also wonder (a little rhetorically) how the middle have fucked things up so badly.

Either:

People fundamentally dislike Corbyn. (or his policies)
People are falling for the 'get Brexit done' nonsense.
The right wing press are extremely effective.
My opinion on Johnson is not widely shared.
 
m said:
I wonder that on a daily basis. I also wonder (a little rhetorically) how the middle have fucked things up so badly.

Either:

People fundamentally dislike Corbyn. (or his policies)
People are falling for the 'get Brexit done' nonsense.
The right wing press are extremely effective.
My opinion on Johnson is not widely shared.
Click to expand...
I do, as a Conservative voter. The Tories should be on the end of an almighty walloping right now just for being in Govt as long as they have and having to make tough choices across services that affected us all - whatever you think of Austerity, the country had a big issue when the Tories/Libs took over. I'd argue it's still not "sorted".

If you look into the data of the Survation poll yesterday, you get a good feel for what some people are thinking and where they are thinking it. Corbyn is very, very unpopular on the doorstep - no matter how activists and supporters spin it to the contrary - let's not kid that Boris is wildly popular, but he is more popular than Corbyn and for some voters, that is what matters. Plus his Brexit views resonate where Corbyn's waffle and lack of opinion do not.

It's easy to blame the press, but they have largely reported on the many factual failings of the Labour party - let's not kid the Tories are given sweet heart coverage as they are not. Both parties are fundamentally flawed, and Lib Dems are really no shining light either.

As for the middle, the financial crash + Brexit + Trump + EU issues across Europe has made the middle unpalatable ground to voters seeking change. And the lack of compelling MPs and Leaders in the middle has only made it worse as those ideas have been lost in the shuffle for seeking change. If Labour lose, they need to think about whether they want principles, or do they want to get elected? To me, the fact they can only realistically spoil a Tory majority rather than get one says a lot.
 
Gary Baldi said:
I do, as a Conservative voter. The Tories should be on the end of an almighty walloping right now just for being in Govt as long as they have and having to make tough choices across services that affected us all - whatever you think of Austerity, the country had a big issue when the Tories/Libs took over. I'd argue it's still not "sorted".

If you look into the data of the Survation poll yesterday, you get a good feel for what some people are thinking and where they are thinking it. Corbyn is very, very unpopular on the doorstep - no matter how activists and supporters spin it to the contrary - let's not kid that Boris is wildly popular, but he is more popular than Corbyn and for some voters, that is what matters. Plus his Brexit views resonate where Corbyn's waffle and lack of opinion do not.

It's easy to blame the press, but they have largely reported on the many factual failings of the Labour party - let's not kid the Tories are given sweet heart coverage as they are not. Both parties are fundamentally flawed, and Lib Dems are really no shining light either.

As for the middle, the financial crash + Brexit + Trump + EU issues across Europe has made the middle unpalatable ground to voters seeking change. And the lack of compelling MPs and Leaders in the middle has only made it worse as those ideas have been lost in the shuffle for seeking change. If Labour lose, they need to think about whether they want principles, or do they want to get elected? To me, the fact they can only realistically spoil a Tory majority rather than get one says a lot.
Click to expand...


I think the only part of that I'd strongly disagree with is that Johnson has 'Brexit views'!

He has a mantra, it's not the same thing.

(Oh, and the idea that the middle might lose voters who are seeking change to the Conservatives seems odd, but you didn't explicitly say that)
 
LowerSouth said:
That works both ways.
No, Labour’s massively optimistic policy wish list is the problem
Click to expand...
Problems I can see with voting for Johnson n his right wingers are, are worries about a no deal Brexit crash out, another ten years of crippling and unnecessary austerity, along with one of my biggest concerns as set out page 48 of the tory manifesto ....

Ive cut and pasted probably the best assessment of it doing the rounds on FB ....

If you're a Conservative voter, this post is not for you. If, after everything that this government has done, you're still not convinced to stop voting for them, then there's nothing that my words can do for you. You are lost, as far as I'm concerned. Johnson could shoot a child in the middle of Broad street and you'd still be clutching your blue ribbon, crying "...but Corbyn would be worse!" Feel free to continuing reading, of course; just know that I've given up trying to convince you. I consider it a lost cause.
This is for all the young voters that have registered to vote, but might not actually go out and make a difference on the day. We need you. The country needs you. If you don't vote this time, you may not get a chance to vote, in any meaningful way, again. Yes, the situation really is that grave.
Page 48 of the Conservative manifesto is one of the most dangerous things I've read in recent times.
This page promises to remove power from parliament, in several areas, and places it in the hands of the executive instead. This is specifically designed to stop Boris Johnson from being brought back into the situation when he deselected so many of his own MPs that he couldn't get anything through parliament. In short, it gives power to a government that doesn't have a majority in seats. This is demonstrably undemocratic, but it's only just beginning.
To make matters worse, they're also looking to nullify the courts. It talks about ministers being able to rewrite laws as and when they like. About to do something illegal? Simply change the law and do it anyway. That's the Conservative majority you have to look forward to. A government that can write laws at will, without ever having to ask for parliamentary approval. Remember Brexit being about giving more sovereignty to our parliament, and more power to our courts? Vote for Johnson and you will see both of these things get annihilated. You'll be voting to rip those qualities away.
It also promises to remove the 'Fixed Term Parliament Act', claiming that it has caused "paralysis" in the country. This isn't true, of course. The conservative leaders not respecting the will of parliament, without a decent enough majority to dismiss it, has caused that paralysis. If Johnson hadn't been a coward, and pulled his own bill from parliament, it could have gone through by now, but why would he ever admit to his failings when he can just blame parliament for his own incompetence?
Without the act, Johnson can choose to call a General Election whenever he wants, dissolving parliament for weeks at a time for any reason he chooses. He has already been caught attempting to abuse the current system, trying to force through a huge constitutional change to our country (that will inevitably end with the breakup of the UK) against the will of parliament.
It doesn't stop there, though! They're also introducing honest-to-God gerrymandering! Changing constituency borders to remove as many marginals, between themselves and other parties, as possible. They'll rewrite the constituency boundaries to produce lots of conservative safe seats, ensuring that the game is rigged against their future opponents. The system, combined with the introduction of IDs to vote, is specifically designed to reduce the amount of people that, if they were allowed to vote, would do so against the Conservatives in their thousands.
This is the direction of dictatorship; the trajectory of totalitarianism.
These are not the words I want to use, however. Most can work out which word I'd rather use. Unfortunately, it's not a word that's taken seriously anymore, because we don't think it could ever happen again. We didn't think it would happen in the 1930s either, but the parallels are undeniable.
Page 48 is all about ensuring that, if people vote for a Conservative government this time, you will never be able to get rid of then, no matter what they do. They will be free to do as they please, and there will be no way to stop them. Even if you're a Tory supporter (and, if you are, well done for reading this far! Usually, people don't like reading something that's against their own belief system) you must be able to recognise the fundamental dismantling of our democratic system going on here. One good General Election result for Boris next week, and he might never need another one again.
They're also promising to "champion freedom of expression", which sounds great, but essentially means you can be as racist, homophobic, transphobic, and all-the-other-kinds-of-phobic as you like, without reprisal or consequence. Anyone keeping up with Johnson's glowing written record could probably infer why that's being implemented. It also means that you can continue to deceive the public, produce lies and misinformation about your opponents, pretend to be objective fact checking websites, and you'll be perfectly fine. All bets are off. All is permitted. Truth, decency and accountability die.
It also removes any restrictions on social media collecting data on us, to exclusively share with the Conservatives. What happens when big businesses and powerful governments get so tightly knit? You get "That Word": the word I really want to say, but will never be taken seriously, until it's too late.
There's also a large piece on "sweeping changes to the constitution", talking in general terms about changes to the monarchy, the courts, parliament and every other institution that can currently hold the government to account. They will all be stripped of that power; the Prime Minister will be accountable to no one. No checks and no balances.
I don't need to tell you how serious and terrifying this would be. To put this in perspective, the Prime Minister would have more power to do as he pleases, than the President of the United States of America. Think about that. I don't think the road to dictatorship can be made any clearer.
Though, maybe there is a way that history can make this even more obvious. There is, after all, another '48', from another constitutional change. I talk, of course, about 'Article 48' of the 'Consitution of the Weimar Republic of Germany' (1919 - 1933), which allowed the President to take emergency measures without consent of the Reichstag (the German parliament). It was described in general, abusable terms , just as 'Page 48' is. They both include very similar processes.
I don't have to tell you how it went the first time. I don't have to tell you that history repeats for those that ignore it. I don't have to tell you what "The Word" is.
You already know.


that ^^ should be serious matters of concern for anyone who believes in democracy IMO
 
Sarge said:
Problems I can see with voting for Johnson n his right wingers are, are worries about a no deal Brexit crash out, another ten years of crippling and unnecessary austerity, along with one of my biggest concerns as set out page 48 of the tory manifesto ....

Ive cut and pasted probably the best assessment of it doing the rounds on FB ....

If you're a Conservative voter, this post is not for you. If, after everything that this government has done, you're still not convinced to stop voting for them, then there's nothing that my words can do for you. You are lost, as far as I'm concerned. Johnson could shoot a child in the middle of Broad street and you'd still be clutching your blue ribbon, crying "...but Corbyn would be worse!" Feel free to continuing reading, of course; just know that I've given up trying to convince you. I consider it a lost cause.
This is for all the young voters that have registered to vote, but might not actually go out and make a difference on the day. We need you. The country needs you. If you don't vote this time, you may not get a chance to vote, in any meaningful way, again. Yes, the situation really is that grave.
Page 48 of the Conservative manifesto is one of the most dangerous things I've read in recent times.
This page promises to remove power from parliament, in several areas, and places it in the hands of the executive instead. This is specifically designed to stop Boris Johnson from being brought back into the situation when he deselected so many of his own MPs that he couldn't get anything through parliament. In short, it gives power to a government that doesn't have a majority in seats. This is demonstrably undemocratic, but it's only just beginning.
To make matters worse, they're also looking to nullify the courts. It talks about ministers being able to rewrite laws as and when they like. About to do something illegal? Simply change the law and do it anyway. That's the Conservative majority you have to look forward to. A government that can write laws at will, without ever having to ask for parliamentary approval. Remember Brexit being about giving more sovereignty to our parliament, and more power to our courts? Vote for Johnson and you will see both of these things get annihilated. You'll be voting to rip those qualities away.
It also promises to remove the 'Fixed Term Parliament Act', claiming that it has caused "paralysis" in the country. This isn't true, of course. The conservative leaders not respecting the will of parliament, without a decent enough majority to dismiss it, has caused that paralysis. If Johnson hadn't been a coward, and pulled his own bill from parliament, it could have gone through by now, but why would he ever admit to his failings when he can just blame parliament for his own incompetence?
Without the act, Johnson can choose to call a General Election whenever he wants, dissolving parliament for weeks at a time for any reason he chooses. He has already been caught attempting to abuse the current system, trying to force through a huge constitutional change to our country (that will inevitably end with the breakup of the UK) against the will of parliament.
It doesn't stop there, though! They're also introducing honest-to-God gerrymandering! Changing constituency borders to remove as many marginals, between themselves and other parties, as possible. They'll rewrite the constituency boundaries to produce lots of conservative safe seats, ensuring that the game is rigged against their future opponents. The system, combined with the introduction of IDs to vote, is specifically designed to reduce the amount of people that, if they were allowed to vote, would do so against the Conservatives in their thousands.
This is the direction of dictatorship; the trajectory of totalitarianism.
These are not the words I want to use, however. Most can work out which word I'd rather use. Unfortunately, it's not a word that's taken seriously anymore, because we don't think it could ever happen again. We didn't think it would happen in the 1930s either, but the parallels are undeniable.
Page 48 is all about ensuring that, if people vote for a Conservative government this time, you will never be able to get rid of then, no matter what they do. They will be free to do as they please, and there will be no way to stop them. Even if you're a Tory supporter (and, if you are, well done for reading this far! Usually, people don't like reading something that's against their own belief system) you must be able to recognise the fundamental dismantling of our democratic system going on here. One good General Election result for Boris next week, and he might never need another one again.
They're also promising to "champion freedom of expression", which sounds great, but essentially means you can be as racist, homophobic, transphobic, and all-the-other-kinds-of-phobic as you like, without reprisal or consequence. Anyone keeping up with Johnson's glowing written record could probably infer why that's being implemented. It also means that you can continue to deceive the public, produce lies and misinformation about your opponents, pretend to be objective fact checking websites, and you'll be perfectly fine. All bets are off. All is permitted. Truth, decency and accountability die.
It also removes any restrictions on social media collecting data on us, to exclusively share with the Conservatives. What happens when big businesses and powerful governments get so tightly knit? You get "That Word": the word I really want to say, but will never be taken seriously, until it's too late.
There's also a large piece on "sweeping changes to the constitution", talking in general terms about changes to the monarchy, the courts, parliament and every other institution that can currently hold the government to account. They will all be stripped of that power; the Prime Minister will be accountable to no one. No checks and no balances.
I don't need to tell you how serious and terrifying this would be. To put this in perspective, the Prime Minister would have more power to do as he pleases, than the President of the United States of America. Think about that. I don't think the road to dictatorship can be made any clearer.
Though, maybe there is a way that history can make this even more obvious. There is, after all, another '48', from another constitutional change. I talk, of course, about 'Article 48' of the 'Consitution of the Weimar Republic of Germany' (1919 - 1933), which allowed the President to take emergency measures without consent of the Reichstag (the German parliament). It was described in general, abusable terms , just as 'Page 48' is. They both include very similar processes.
I don't have to tell you how it went the first time. I don't have to tell you that history repeats for those that ignore it. I don't have to tell you what "The Word" is.
You already know.


that ^^ should be serious matters of concern for anyone who believes in democracy IMO
Click to expand...
Get Brexit done.
 
Post and pic off FB .... posted by a cousin of mine ( and a fellow U's supporter too) who lives in Ireland...79839218_10158212143929274_1220330153029140480_o.jpg



For anyone in the UK who is dismissive about Tory privatisation of the NHS or who isn't worried about ending up with a US style healthcare system as it’s just so extreme, they think it'll never be allowed to happen. Here is an example of the semi-privatised system we have here in Ireland. A system the Tories are realistically much more likely to move towards if they form the next government this week. I received this letter this morning, reminding me that my daughter will be 6 early next year and will no longer be entitled to her free GP visit card for under 6's. This means that any time my child needs to go to the doctor's it will cost us €50 a visit, the same as it costs for an adult. And that is just GP visits, not to mention other healthcare costs which vary massively. The fact that anyone should have to pay up front for healthcare when you already pay for it through taxes is a travesty, the fact that you have to pay for a child’s healthcare is criminal. The NHS is so precious, don’t let the Tories do this in the UK.
Vote Labour everywhere!
 
Anthomic said:
This was fake news at best and it was probably staged. Apparently the kid started off in a chair and was moved to the floor by his mother as he was not comfortable.
He had flue was given antibiotics and sent home. In other words he should not have been there in the first place he should have been taken to his GP. People like this are part of the problem. As for fake news have they not heard of Isaac Newton, drips work by gravity they don't work if they are lying on the floor.
Click to expand...

Try reading this, it wasn't fake news as the Hospital apologised days before the Tory attempts to claim fakery (with Guido Fawkes, the Sun and Telegraph reporters):

bylinetimes.com

Trolls, Sock Puppets and Useful Idiots: An Anatomy of an Election Disinformation Campaign – Byline Times

Peter Jukes dissects how 'No 10 sources', mainstream broadcast journalists and an army of hired online activists tried to save Boris Johnson from himself.
bylinetimes.com bylinetimes.com
 
Sarge said:
Post and pic off FB .... posted by a cousin of mine ( and a fellow U's supporter too) who lives in Ireland...View attachment 2556



For anyone in the UK who is dismissive about Tory privatisation of the NHS or who isn't worried about ending up with a US style healthcare system as it’s just so extreme, they think it'll never be allowed to happen. Here is an example of the semi-privatised system we have here in Ireland. A system the Tories are realistically much more likely to move towards if they form the next government this week. I received this letter this morning, reminding me that my daughter will be 6 early next year and will no longer be entitled to her free GP visit card for under 6's. This means that any time my child needs to go to the doctor's it will cost us €50 a visit, the same as it costs for an adult. And that is just GP visits, not to mention other healthcare costs which vary massively. The fact that anyone should have to pay up front for healthcare when you already pay for it through taxes is a travesty, the fact that you have to pay for a child’s healthcare is criminal. The NHS is so precious, don’t let the Tories do this in the UK.
Vote Labour everywhere!
Click to expand...
Ok I will duck when I say this but....
An old colleague of mine used to live in France and visiting the GP there cost I think £5 maybe 10 years ago. His view was that fewer people wasted the doctors time when they had cold in the winter. People that wouldn't afford it didnt pay.
Now I am not sure whether this has got anything to do with privatising the health service (?), but as the health service needs more and more money, for those that can afford it is that such a bad thing?
Surely there should be a grown up debate on how the health service can be funded and whether things like this could provide more funds (for those who can afford it) , or whwther we simply increase taxes?
Puts hard hat on ....
 
Foley said:
Ok I will duck when I say this but....
An old colleague of mine used to live in France and visiting the GP there cost I think £5 maybe 10 years ago. His view was that fewer people wasted the doctors time when they had cold in the winter. People that wouldn't afford it didnt pay.
Now I am not sure whether this has got anything to do with privatising the health service (?), but as the health service needs more and more money, for those that can afford it is that such a bad thing?
Surely there should be a grown up debate on how the health service can be funded and whether things like this could provide more funds (for those who can afford it) , or whwther we simply increase taxes?
Puts hard hat on ....
Click to expand...
NHS is supposed to be 'free' at the point of service. Reality is all those of us that work, or have worked already pay towards the funding of NHS ....via National Insurance contributions

Of course IF things go a certain way on Thursday we'll all be paying a considerable amount more for healthcare than we currently do in National Insurance contributions

IMO its up to individual surgeries/ health centres etc IF they choose to 'fine' patients for not showing up

for the few with money to burn the NHS is already bypassed by private healthcare at a sizable outlay anyway
 
unification said:
State of this post. Posts twaddle about the story being fake news (it wasn't) and gets three likes for it. Makes up some nonsense about the kid's mother being 'the problem' too. You want fake news, social media-bullshit sharing, misinformed and unchallenged crap then look no further than this post.

I don't have kids but I do know that the flu (if he had a problem with 'flue' he should definitely be in hospital!) can be horrible for them. She did the right thing in taking him to hospital where he received the care he needed.
Click to expand...

It's not for me to say what the circumstances were around the picture being taken, but it would have almost certainly happened under any administration. The child may not have needed a bed, but was undoubtedly exhausted. I've held my boy in my arms to sleep on a number of occasions in hospital, but have also laid him on the floor to allow him to rest properly. He wasn't gravely ill and didn't need a bed, but he did need sleep. This had nothing to do with a lack of care, and I couldn't fault any of the staff I dealt with. Delays were caused by the need to run blood tests etc which couldn't be helped.

There are things wrong with the NHS, and with public services as a whole. Austerity has been s**t and everywhere needs massive investment. But the pol
Foley said:
Ok I will duck when I say this but....
An old colleague of mine used to live in France and visiting the GP there cost I think £5 maybe 10 years ago. His view was that fewer people wasted the doctors time when they had cold in the winter. People that wouldn't afford it didnt pay.
Now I am not sure whether this has got anything to do with privatising the health service (?), but as the health service needs more and more money, for those that can afford it is that such a bad thing?
Surely there should be a grown up debate on how the health service can be funded and whether things like this could provide more funds (for those who can afford it) , or whwther we simply increase taxes?
Puts hard hat on ....
Click to expand...

A grown up debate is certainly what's needed, but I'm not sure that we should necessarily charge for GP/Hospital appointments without some massive caveats that stop the less well off getting treatment.

However, there are procedures that I'm not sure the general public should be funding, such as cosmetic surgery etc. The NHS was set up to provide essential healthcare to all, but it has now become something where a small minority abuse the generosity of others and we can't keep spending more and more without any controls.
 
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