Thohir

[Deleted member 462]

How about, OUFC board announces it can't find a new ground, can't do a deal on the current ground, can't afford to run the club with the losses it makes, and can't find a buyer stupid enough to do the same. So approaches Reading FC for a merger? Kassam gets to knock down the Kassam stadium, and somewhere along the line the OUFC board members get a "finders fee"?

Not saying it might or will happen, but Thames Valley Royals was suggested by Maxwell so it's not an original idea.

Jesus, as conspiracy theories go that’s up there with the faking the moon landing mark. Where do reading and their owners fit into all that? Seems like a long winded complex set of circumstances to fall into place just to get a “finders fee”. Let me have a go.

Tiger brings in a mate as director who he’s worked with before as hes a property development expert. That director decides he could work with tiger on other property deals he has which include the land around reading.

 

[RussianYellow]

Did you know that the official translation of Правда is yellowsforum?

Yes I did. Just reading the newspaper with the same name.

 

[horseman]

Whilst admitting i haven't gone through all the costings etc surely the outlay on the academy is with the intention of selling the future stars to recoup some or all of the outlay...if the agenda is property and planning is refused etc and he/they decide to walk then they at least have this to fall back on?

 

[Marked Ox]

Whilst admitting i haven't gone through all the costings etc surely the outlay on the academy is with the intention of selling the future stars to recoup some or all of the outlay...if the agenda is property and planning is refused etc and he/they decide to walk then they at least have this to fall back on?

I'm an advocate for investing in the Academy structure as I think it will benefit both the team and the financial viability of the club but it is still a risky strategy.

 

[Deleted member 462]

Whilst admitting i haven't gone through all the costings etc surely the outlay on the academy is with the intention of selling the future stars to recoup some or all of the outlay...if the agenda is property and planning is refused etc and he/they decide to walk then they at least have this to fall back on?

Only if u are looking long term, and stay long enough that those age group start coming through, and even then the numbers that make it to first team and sale are low and no guarantee that that u produce any, I read that a cat 3 academy costs around £500k a year, and a cat 2 £700-800k just to run. So a hefty cost that u need to sell a decent player every couple of years just to cover ur costs, let alone having a profit to fall back on

 

[Foley]

Only if u are looking long term, and stay long enough that those age group start coming through, and even then the numbers that make it to first team and sale are low and no guarantee that that u produce any, I read that a cat 3 academy costs around £500k a year, and a cat 2 £700-800k just to run. So a hefty cost that u need to sell a decent player every couple of years just to cover ur costs, let alone having a profit to fall back on

I think that the argument from DE was that you dont just sell on players to justify the cost.
You also have some of the players in the first team squad. These are sometimes cheaper than bringing in players. Presumably the salaries of players like Baptiste, Jones, Napa, Lopes , Steven's etc are a less than some of the players coming from Everton for example.
The more intangible benefit is the interest that is generated locally when the club develops it's own players.

 

[Deleted member 462]

I think that the argument from DE was that you dont just sell on players to justify the cost.
You also have some of the players in the first team squad. These are sometimes cheaper than bringing in players. Presumably the salaries of players like Baptiste, Jones, Napa, Lopes , Steven's etc are a less than some of the players coming from Everton for example.
The more intangible benefit is the interest that is generated locally when the club develops it's own players.

Fair point, still think u got to be looking at it as a longer term strategy though, unless ur lucky to have some coming through at the point u buy the club, it will take a few years for the additional scouts to identify players at the lower age groups and for them to filter up the system, getting the better coaching and the opportunity of more game time in the additional u23 side to bridge the jump. Without the additional staff like dan Harris and scouts employed we wouldnt have had Jones come through as he was from another academy. The u23 side and women’s team are also quiet large additional costs, that benefit the club and community, that u wouldn’t normally see a chairman looking to spend on if not looking at the clubs long term future.

 

[Common Villager]

Yes but its old news, you post it. up pops Myles, you praise Myles.

Man alive you are precious. Shosho is a very good poster on this forum and highlighted an interesting tweet regarding one of our directors. I for one think it was worth posting, and I'm sure many others too. Get over it.

 

[SwissYellow]

When we talk about owners stumping up transfer fees, you know that's not actually from his bank right... Transfer fees are rarely paid up front or in lump sums.

They're like mortgages, they're paid in installments, from the club, over maybe 5 years.

Having a club spend fees isn't only a sign of a chairman's wealth, it could also be a sign of financial madness.

While it's fantastic to see us spend money on players, the REAL sign of a clubs wealth is cash flow. Something that we're looking pretty poor at, with the HMRC stuff and salaries going unpaid recently.

Don't think that because we paid money for a player, that its a sign of us having rich owner. We could just have an irresponsible owner.

 

[MarkG]

Probably rehashing what has been found out already ... but
So the Madejski stadium is owned by the parent company of Reading FC, and the club get charged 750K pa rent.
The car parks and surrounding land were moved into RFC Prop Co. That is owned <25% by Reading FC, >50% by Empire Assets, and <25% Magic Harbour.
Tiger, Pairoj and Jack are still directors of RFC Prop Co. Empire Assets is presumably part of the Empire Asia group that I think Pairoj and Jack were involved with in Intercarabao.

The new director isn't Thohir - DC United / Inter Milan. (not sure why it ended up in this thread), but Horst Geicke, "The Builder".

 

[Deleted member 462]

When we talk about owners stumping up transfer fees, you know that's not actually from his bank right... Transfer fees are rarely paid up front or in lump sums.

They're like mortgages, they're paid in installments, from the club, over maybe 5 years.

Having a club spend fees isn't only a sign of a chairman's wealth, it could also be a sign of financial madness.

While it's fantastic to see us spend money on players, the REAL sign of a clubs wealth is cash flow. Something that we're looking pretty poor at, with the HMRC stuff and salaries going unpaid recently.

Don't think that because we paid money for a player, that its a sign of us having rich owner. We could just have an irresponsible owner.

Again true, but none have gone “unpaid” They have been paid late, which is in its self is poor and causes a lot of unnecessary problems. But they were all paid, including staff and rent and a massive historical debt and fees run up by the last owner. That on top of the academy, women’s side, training ground are I would say better indicators of wealth or cash flow and also player fees are shown on the accounts so any lumping of these in the club are visible. At the end of the day if tiger walked now we lose someone who is paying all the bills (and much more) even if they are late. Don’t be so sure there is a ready line of wealthy investors willing to lose £2m a year or more, as well as considering spending many £10’s of millions more sorting the stadium problem. Sartori and others were billed as the dream ticket, yet many of the concerns oufc fans have with tiger are the exact same that Sunderland fans are having

 

[mooro]

Only if u are looking long term, and stay long enough that those age group start coming through, and even then the numbers that make it to first team and sale are low and no guarantee that that u produce any, I read that a cat 3 academy costs around £500k a year, and a cat 2 £700-800k just to run. So a hefty cost that u need to sell a decent player every couple of years just to cover ur costs, let alone having a profit to fall back on

Presuming thngs havent changed, the club will get grants from various sources towards funding the academy (PL, FA, PFA etc) which reduces the actual additional cost to the club, particularly as some YT resources can also be shared with other parts of the club.
I havent got all of the numbers any more, but if the actual numbers behind the funding were enough to convince FK to not drop the academy back in the day, then I am sure that the same case remains valid - even before you start adding in any monies received from sales....

 

[Deleted member 462]

Presuming thngs havent changed, the club will get grants from various sources towards funding the academy (PL, FA, PFA etc) which reduces the actual additional cost to the club, particularly as some YT resources can also be shared with other parts of the club.
I havent got all of the numbers any more, but if the actual numbers behind the funding were enough to convince FK to not drop the academy back in the day, then I am sure that the same case remains valid - even before you start adding in any monies received from sales....

Fk did basically drop it, do u not remember Ian and Simon having to rebuild it from basically nothing (Charlie has also claimed he helped in this). And the grants and subsidies were not enough to stop darryl cutting it to heavily reduce costs.


Have a read on why Crewe say it’s vital they didn’t cut their academy

Crewe Alex academy must stay at Category 2 - David Artell

Head of academy operations explains why big annual investment is crucial to club

www.crewechronicle.co.uk

 

[LondonRoader]

Man alive you are precious. Shosho is a very good poster on this forum and highlighted an interesting tweet regarding one of our directors. I for one think it was worth posting, and I'm sure many others too. Get over it.

Like I said, I have an opinion and this a public forum, don’t get upset because we all don’t see things the same way.

 

[Common Villager]

Like I said, I have an opinion and this a public forum, don’t get upset because we all don’t see things the same way.

Are you being intentionally ironic?

 

[horseman]

Only if u are looking long term, and stay long enough that those age group start coming through, and even then the numbers that make it to first team and sale are low and no guarantee that that u produce any, I read that a cat 3 academy costs around £500k a year, and a cat 2 £700-800k just to run. So a hefty cost that u need to sell a decent player every couple of years just to cover ur costs, let alone having a profit to fall back on

That takes me back to my original stand point and only a personal opinion that i would like to see us keep a squad together for 2/3 seasons with the odd tweak and have a real go...rather than allowing our players to move on...much of the talk on here is about future value of our players yet we sell them on to clubs in the league that we are meant to have ambition to be in....keep breaking up the squad each season is i believe part of the reason we have struggled for the past 2 seasons...filling the squad with loan players that we cannot ever afford does not help long term strategy either.
if we struggle to put a squad together each season now then how do you expect to do it should we be lucky to be promoted as it will cost several times more whereas if you had the squad together the only extras are the higher wages they would be paid.
like i said just my opinion.

 

[Gary Baldi]

The irony of this statement is simply staggering. I have probably put more info in the public domain than anyone else over the past few years and certainly way more than the Supporters Club (they ceased to be a Trust in all but name some time ago). I have produced links to company records, accounts, and other verifiable documents. I have named names of those who were likely to be involved in the background (and subsequently were proven to be) all whilst others tried to shout me down because of the supposed lack of evidence.

So, I'm sorry if you're not being spoon-fed enough, but if maybe a few more people who supposedly care about our club actually got off their arses and took an interest in how our club was being run and funded, rather than simply shrugging their shoulders at the latest WUP, we might all be in a better place. The vast majority of the information is out there in various publicly-available records. If you want to find it, go and look for it. Maybe start by asking who Knightsbridge Asia are. Maybe try asking @OxVox that question - for some reason they seem unable or unwilling to answer.

Although we have crossed swords numerous times, I have great respect for @Dave T because he at lesat has the decency to accept when things change; even on this thread he has said how DE ended up, to paraphrase, fukcing the club over. But you, wiggy, and the eggman, just snipe from the sidelines, challenging every single minutiae I utter, despite the evidence slapping you in the face. FFS, back in December(?) eggman was even saying how I may have been right about Tiger. A couple of WUPs later and where is he? So far up Tiger's backside that he may as well be one of his tonsils. If supporters get the clubs they deserve, you guys will see OUFC go to the wall in no time. Probably whilst proclaiming that it's no big deal.....

It was a general point, because it applies to a lot of us. Clearly it struck a nerve with you, but it was not a personal jab - but the insults do rather suggest you are quite sensitive about it. And kind of proves my point.

I do think some fans desperately hold onto every scrap of information they've found, at times because they have a sense of control and ego boost that they know it and no one else does. Does that help OUFC? Does that help OxVox? Does it help the fans?

I have spent time looking into the directors - I was one of the first to ask questions about Horst Geicke and Zaki Nuseibeh's brother and why for OUFC - and shared what I found and moved on. Zaki Nuseibeh's brother is a particular individual of interest. A man with many hands in many Middle Eastern pies.

 

[holdsteady]

[/

That takes me back to my original stand point and only a personal opinion that i would like to see us keep a squad together for 2/3 seasons with the odd tweak and have a real go...rather than allowing our players to move on...much of the talk on here is about future value of our players yet we sell them on to clubs in the league that we are meant to have ambition to be in....keep breaking up the squad each season is i believe part of the reason we have struggled for the past 2 seasons...filling the squad with loan players that we cannot ever afford does not help long term strategy either.
if we struggle to put a squad together each season now then how do you expect to do it should we be lucky to be promoted as it will cost several times more whereas if you had the squad together the only extras are the higher wages they would be paid.
like i said just my opinion.

High player turnover is a fact of life in league one, you can only try manage it as best you can, no club is going to buck the trend and keep a settled team for 3 years.

 

[Deleted member 462]

That takes me back to my original stand point and only a personal opinion that i would like to see us keep a squad together for 2/3 seasons with the odd tweak and have a real go...rather than allowing our players to move on...much of the talk on here is about future value of our players yet we sell them on to clubs in the league that we are meant to have ambition to be in....keep breaking up the squad each season is i believe part of the reason we have struggled for the past 2 seasons...filling the squad with loan players that we cannot ever afford does not help long term strategy either.
if we struggle to put a squad together each season now then how do you expect to do it should we be lucky to be promoted as it will cost several times more whereas if you had the squad together the only extras are the higher wages they would be paid.
like i said just my opinion.

No i think that’s a valid point, but do you not think that’s what we’re doing by keeping the likes of whyte and branagan and not selling off our top player to cover this years losses. In fact since tiger has been here he hasn’t taken transfer income on a single player

 

[Golden Dr Otto]

The conversation should not be about what Myles intent is, whether he’s a prize c$&t (probably ?), how it impacts on the morale of our owners, or whether he can answer subjective follow up questions.

It should be:
1. Is the data correct?
2. If the answer to 1 is yes, what are the potential risk implications to the future of our club?
3. How should oxvox, the council, and wider stakeholder audience such as fan base react, respond or manage these potential risks?