HMV administration and decline of CD sales

Sarge said:
there are a few record shops left in the uk..... a once huge industry wiped out by Simon Cowell and his cohorts
pedalling uninspired rehashed reworkings by talentless nobodies via Saturday night tv for the dumb and even dumber
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Whilst I definitely don't want to be the guy that defends Simon Cowell for anything......

......surely the demise of the record store is more Steve Jobs' fault?
I mean the problem is not people buying crap CDs, it's people buying no CDs at all because there's a more convenient medium to listen to their music.

And yes, an MP3's sound quality is inferior to a CD.....but if you're into music enough to be caring about sound quality first and foremost, then you're surely likely to be buying vinyl? And the surviving independent record stores are sufficient to cater for that market niche.....I'm not sure how many people ever headed to HMV or their ilk to buy vinyl......
 
tonyw said:
Whilst I definitely don't want to be the guy that defends Simon Cowell for anything......

......surely the demise of the record store is more Steve Jobs' fault?
I mean the problem is not people buying crap CDs, it's people buying no CDs at all because there's a more convenient medium to listen to their music.

And yes, an MP3's sound quality is inferior to a CD.....but if you're into music enough to be caring about sound quality first and foremost, then you're surely likely to be buying vinyl? And the surviving independent record stores are sufficient to cater for that market niche.....I'm not sure how many people ever headed to HMV or their ilk to buy vinyl......
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Fair comment
 
tonyw said:
Whilst I definitely don't want to be the guy that defends Simon Cowell for anything......

......surely the demise of the record store is more Steve Jobs' fault?
I mean the problem is not people buying crap CDs, it's people buying no CDs at all because there's a more convenient medium to listen to their music.

And yes, an MP3's sound quality is inferior to a CD.....but if you're into music enough to be caring about sound quality first and foremost, then you're surely likely to be buying vinyl? And the surviving independent record stores are sufficient to cater for that market niche.....I'm not sure how many people ever headed to HMV or their ilk to buy vinyl......
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Jobs? It was much more Spotify that disrupted the existing model so much, and 5 years or so before Apple got involved with streaming. ITunes of course allowed purchases, but it was streaming subscription services which pulled the rug from under the physical sales.
 
SteMerritt said:
Jobs? It was much more Spotify that disrupted the existing model so much, and 5 years or so before Apple got involved with streaming. ITunes of course allowed purchases, but it was streaming subscription services which pulled the rug from under the physical sales.
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If you look at CD sales, they peaked in around 2000 and then began to tail off quite sharply by ~2003-4.

That's because at that point the MP3 player/iPod market was beginning to grow and people were starting to listen to their music via MP3 downloads.

Sure that accelerates even more in the late 00s when Spotify (founded 2006) and other streaming services get in on the act - but the downward trend for CDs had already started by then.
 
tonyw said:
If you look at CD sales, they peaked in around 2000 and then began to tail off quite sharply by ~2003-4.

That's because at that point the MP3 player/iPod market was beginning to grow and people were starting to listen to their music via MP3 downloads.

Sure that accelerates even more in the late 00s when Spotify (founded 2006) and other streaming services get in on the act - but the downward trend for CDs had already started by then.
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Yeah true, but Jobs didn't invent anything, the MP3 boom was started by Napster, iTunes store didn't start until 03/04? In fact, as is typical for Apple, they didn't even write iTunes, but absorbed a smaller company. What iTunes did was make it easier for the mass market for sure. But I'd suggest that piracy enabled by the Internet and the original Napster pushed the record industry towards the MP3 and streaming in an attempt to combat piracy.
 
SteMerritt said:
Yeah true, but Jobs didn't invent anything, the MP3 boom was started by Napster, iTunes store didn't start until 03/04? In fact, as is typical for Apple, they didn't even write iTunes, but absorbed a smaller company. What iTunes did was make it easier for the mass market for sure. But I'd suggest that piracy enabled by the Internet and the original Napster pushed the record industry towards the MP3 and streaming in an attempt to combat piracy.
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I think this is crucial - Apple did what they almost always do.....they took something that other companies were already doing, packaged it up and made it prettier and easy-to-use, and as such accelerated adoption massively.

We'd probably have got to ubiquitous adoption anyway eventually - but I suggest that without the iPod, the MP3 player would probably have been confined to the early adopters (who were already using Napster) for a lot longer........
 
tonyw said:
I think this is crucial - Apple did what they almost always do.....they took something that other companies were already doing, packaged it up and made it prettier and easy-to-use, and as such accelerated adoption massively.

We'd probably have got to ubiquitous adoption anyway eventually - but I suggest that without the iPod, the MP3 player would probably have been confined to the early adopters (who were already using Napster) for a lot longer........
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Yeah that's fair enough, I don't think they sowed the seeds of the downfall, but they certainly helped the change to grow.
 
My problem with digital downloads is threefold.

Firstly, without a physical copy of what you have purchased, you are relying on the company you purchased it from keeping going. I still have LPs I bought when I was 14 years old - and that was a bloody long time ago. In that time, record labels/shops/bands/radio stations/formats/my computers etc etc have all come and gone. I still have the music to listen to.

Secondly, the artists get an absolute pittance for Spotify downloads/plays. An absolute pittance. It's Spotify that make the money through advertising and sales of their app. I don't know (but suspect!) that iTunes is somewhat similar.

Thirdly, it has changed the artistic nature of music. An album was (in the better cases) a considered sequence of songs. Some might be immediate 'likes', others might take a few listens to 'get' - and quite often it was the more obscure tracks that became my favourites. In a culture where you just down load the 'hit' choonz from an 'album' not only is the sequence lost, but some of the more rewarding tunes end up being not listened to.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
My problem with digital downloads is threefold.

Firstly, without a physical copy of what you have purchased, you are relying on the company you purchased it from keeping going. I still have LPs I bought when I was 14 years old - and that was a bloody long time ago. In that time, record labels/shops/bands/radio stations/formats/my computers etc etc have all come and gone. I still have the music to listen to.

Secondly, the artists get an absolute pittance for Spotify downloads/plays. An absolute pittance. It's Spotify that make the money through advertising and sales of their app. I don't know (but suspect!) that iTunes is somewhat similar.

Thirdly, it has changed the artistic nature of music. An album was (in the better cases) a considered sequence of songs. Some might be immediate 'likes', others might take a few listens to 'get' - and quite often it was the more obscure tracks that became my favourites. In a culture where you just down load the 'hit' choonz from an 'album' not only is the sequence lost, but some of the more rewarding tunes end up being not listened to.
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Absolutely true. All of that.
I feel lucky to have brought albums with interesting sleeves, discovering tracks you would never normally hear.
But.... I guess in 20 years there probably won't be record stores and maybe not even CDs. But shame but 'progress'
 
The reason I stopped going to HMV to buy CDs is because they were considerably more expensive than the internet and it means not having to make a trip out to buy a CD. I flat out refuse to pay for a streaming service on principle - the fact it will be run by an influencer backed by an algorithm pushing me content I don't want really puts me off.
 
Gary Baldi said:
The reason I stopped going to HMV to buy CDs is because they were considerably more expensive than the internet and it means not having to make a trip out to buy a CD. I flat out refuse to pay for a streaming service on principle - the fact it will be run by an influencer backed by an algorithm pushing me content I don't want really puts me off.
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On occasion when listening for new music (for me rather than just brand new), I'll start off on a track I already liked or a recommendation, or something caught elsewhere, for a song and put it on Youtube (standard not the streaming app) and just let it continue on autoplay. I 'discovered' the likes of Kris Delmhorst and Will Varley this way with Kris Delmhorst being by starting with a Muddy Waters track.
 
I use Spotify or YouTube to help find new music, if I spot a band mentioned that I haven't heard of, it's easy to listen to a few tracks on these services. For example, in the latest Nightshift, there is a big piece on Kanadia, who I'm seeing in just over a months time. In the article, it mentioned another Oxford band called Leader who I didn't know. Now after getting Spotify on the case, they have a new fan and hopefully another face in the crowd when they play. There are a lot of small bands who you can find on Spotify, it's just knowing where to look. YouTube played this to me the other day...


... Another band I'd never heard of, and now follow.
 
In my youth, I lived in Letchworth, Herts. There was (and I think still is) a shop called David's Records and Bookshop. They used to sell second hand LPs at a reasonable price and they'd reduce them weekly until they sold. They would also buy records back. So I could take what little money I had, buy a record that looked interesting or had been recommended by the NME, listen to it for a week and then if I didn't like it, take it back the next weekend, and sell it back to them to mostly cover the cost of something else they had.
Looking back, I discovered so much excellent music through that (and the sainted John Peel) that I think it was one of the foundations of my love of interesting (and sometimes challenging!) music throughout my life.
 
SteMerritt said:
I use Spotify or YouTube to help find new music, if I spot a band mentioned that I haven't heard of, it's easy to listen to a few tracks on these services. For example, in the latest Nightshift, there is a big piece on Kanadia, who I'm seeing in just over a months time. In the article, it mentioned another Oxford band called Leader who I didn't know. Now after getting Spotify on the case, they have a new fan and hopefully another face in the crowd when they play. There are a lot of small bands who you can find on Spotify, it's just knowing where to look. YouTube played this to me the other day...


... Another band I'd never heard of, and now follow.
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I like that track.
 
I use Spotify and Amazon Music. I listen to all my music on that. If I like a particular album or artist, then I will buy that album on vinyl. Its nice to have something physical of your favourite music. I barely even play some of my vinyls but its nice to hold something. Plus at times the art work alone looks great.

HMV are going bust (again) because they're overpriced. A bit like GAME, it's only a matter of time. Online shopping and streaming services have changed the way we listen and purchase music. HMV have to factor in other costs such as rent for all their shops, whilst amazon will just have one big warehouse somewhere. I actually do purchase from HMV regularly online, as they have limited edition coloured vinyls. They're very cheeky in how they price their products though. They give free delivery on products over £10 however all their vinyls are priced at £9.99 meaning you have to fork out the extra £3-4 on delivery. Plus they also charge you £3 to join their loyalty scheme!
 
Marked Ox said:
On occasion when listening for new music (for me rather than just brand new), I'll start off on a track I already liked or a recommendation, or something caught elsewhere, for a song and put it on Youtube (standard not the streaming app) and just let it continue on autoplay. I 'discovered' the likes of Kris Delmhorst and Will Varley this way with Kris Delmhorst being by starting with a Muddy Waters track.
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I try that on YouTube, but end up clicking next a lot as I tend to like bands/artists rather than genres. My best bet nowadays is through bands side projects that open up other bands - through Queens of the Stone Age I got into Mark Lanegan - and music documentaries for old bands.
 
Always with me, if a new to me track appeals the search is on for first issue vinyl....though that usually is older soul/funk (there are a few new releases on vinyl too) though that's for me evening/night/weekend job ....with CD releases from new/newish artists, my day job sees me in the position to acquire review copies ;).....though for very new n exciting acts i buy cds from gigs i go to

Ran my own small, localish record label in the 90s for several years....fun times albeit barely broke even on it all it was one hell of a learning curve
 
used to love going out and buying new albums. Cool artwork on the sleeve and lyrics. Remember getting subhumans from the cradle to the grave and blasting it out at full volume. And 'pay no more than £3.50' on the front.
Can't beat vinyl
 
ZeroTheHero said:
In my youth, I lived in Letchworth, Herts. There was (and I think still is) a shop called David's Records and Bookshop. They used to sell second hand LPs at a reasonable price and they'd reduce them weekly until they sold. They would also buy records back. So I could take what little money I had, buy a record that looked interesting or had been recommended by the NME, listen to it for a week and then if I didn't like it, take it back the next weekend, and sell it back to them to mostly cover the cost of something else they had.
Looking back, I discovered so much excellent music through that (and the sainted John Peel) that I think it was one of the foundations of my love of interesting (and sometimes challenging!) music throughout my life.
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I met Whispering Bob Harris at a gig in The Bullingdon about 18 months ago and took the opportunity to thank him for introducing me to shitloads of bands over the years from OGWT and his various radio shows. Had my OGWT starkicker T shirt on Too,
 
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