4th Test Wed 19-23 July 2023 - Emirates Old Trafford

[tonyw]

Sure, we lost/they won the Ashes, but I know which team I and cricket fans around the world would rather support. Not only are captains and players like Stokes rare, but people like him are, and while we might not get to keep an urn, as a not particularly prideful nor patriotic person, I love the way we conduct ourselves, and I'm proud to be a fan of English cricket. They're not just players to be inspired by, but people, and the future of our game is as exciting as it's ever been when we've role models like these.

If anger is going to be the overwhelming emotion as a result of this series, then this England team may not be for you.

In the words of Ben Stokes, 'It's not what you get, it's what you become.' Enjoy the urn, Aussies, I'll take the players, personalities and approach of our team every time.

If you've read any of my posts about cricket over the past year and a half, then you know without any shadow of a doubt that this England team is 100% not for me.

Ben Stokes is an amazing cricketer, a thoroughly decent bloke, a great entertainer and his team has just bungled their biggest challenge. Won't get another shot at it for two and a half years - will Stokes still be playing then? You'd hope so, but with that knee of his......

 

[Scrongo]

What a boring game cricket is...
Played mostly by former comenwealth countries, A bit like the yanks & their world series NOT.... OH & before I get slated, I played in the school team, many moons ago. I've still got the end of year medal for it in fact 2 of my schools that I ent to.. it's a bit like watching paint dry...

 

[chuckbert]

It’s annoying, we win back the ashes if it doesn’t rain, the convicts will never admit it but we are a better team than them. But the one plus side we can take from this is that Smith and Warner don’t live in this country, they can take a little yen home as long as those two go back with it.

I’ve got Aussie mates who won’t really support straya until Warner’s gone. Smith gets more sympathy for some reason.

 

[bashamwonderland]

I got into cricket this year for the first time, watched all of the ashes (in the background when working from home) and was loving it.

But one day of rain out of a 25-day test series derailing the whole thing?? I dunno, I'm not sure this sport is for me!

 

[Marked Ox]

I’ve got Aussie mates who won’t really support straya until Warner’s gone. Smith gets more sympathy for some reason.

Smith cried on TV therefore he is 'rehabilitated' when in reality the long term cheating was all with his approval as Captain, so he is the one ultimately responsible on the playing side.

 

[Leysboy]

Smith cried on TV therefore he is 'rehabilitated' when in reality the long term cheating was all with his approval as Captain, so he is the one ultimately responsible on the playing side.

Crocodile tears, that’s what that was.

His leadership should of prevented what happened, but he was bullied in to it by David Warner, and they both threw Cameron Bancroft under the bus.

Both of those cricketers are as bad as each other. Bancroft gets my sympathy, purely because he was relatively new to Test cricket, and was manipulated in to doing something that he shouldn’t of, and probably got told - if you don’t do this, we won’t select you again.

Warner and Smith = Shysters!

 

[BigCrompy]

If anger is going to be the overwhelming emotion as a result of this series, then this England team may not be for you.

Call me a cowboy, but...

...an exciting style of play but a devil-may-care attitude to the important matter of winning football matches probably means that Karl Robinson's Oxford United was also probably "not for me". (Alright, I'm stretching a point with 'exciting' but the analogy is still a fair one!)

Coincidentally, anger was indeed my overwhelming emotion as a result of the last football season.

 

[Mike_H]

Unchanged England squad for the Oval.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/66289785

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I can't say I am angry - but very frustrated certainly sums it up! Obviously frustrated by the weather in this last game, but also frustrated that the team were so careless at vital times in the first three games.

You can play aggressive cricket without flapping at every ball (Duckett), without dropping catches for fun (Bairstow plus some other notable drops), without declaring when the extra runs were obviously going to be vital and there should be a better plan than when one solitary spinner gets injured having to coax Moeen out of test retirement. Root looked much better in this last game when he played an aggressive version of his normal game rather than slogging it (for some reason I kept seeing Eastwood trying to dribble the ball out of defence when hew was batting in the first three!)

I have enjoyed the series in many ways, but it's all very out-of-control helter skelter cricket and very on the edge - which make it exciting but we are as likely to be all out for 150 as we are to score 500. Crawley's innings (for example) was great - but he got away with a hell of a lot of very poor shots during that innings.

 

[Big Ron]

If you've read any of my posts about cricket over the past year and a half, then you know without any shadow of a doubt that this England team is 100% not for me.

Ben Stokes is an amazing cricketer, a thoroughly decent bloke, a great entertainer and his team has just bungled their biggest challenge. Won't get another shot at it for two and a half years - will Stokes still be playing then? You'd hope so, but with that knee of his......

100% not for you? I'm still somewhat bemused by that view after a great summer of cricket, even if the end result is less than satisfying.

Yes, they contributed to their own demise in the first two tests before seemingly finding the right balance in the latter two - 'bungled' is incredibly harsh. Equally we have played cricket aiming to get a positive result and came up short and we have done this revitalising pretty much the same players who were walking head first into a thrashing about 18 months ago.

I can and do appreciate test cricket in its traditional form but equally, I've enjoyed the last few months. Our limitations are obvious - no high class spinner, an ageing attack and few options at three in the batting order. And yet, in spite of criticism of individual players, who in county cricket has been seriously overlooked and can feel hard done by? Foakes perhaps?

 

[tonyw]

100% not for you? I'm still somewhat bemused by that view after a great summer of cricket, even if the end result is less than satisfying.

Yes, they contributed to their own demise in the first two tests before seemingly finding the right balance in the latter two - 'bungled' is incredibly harsh. Equally we have played cricket aiming to get a positive result and came up short and we have done this revitalising pretty much the same players who were walking head first into a thrashing about 18 months ago.

I can and do appreciate test cricket in its traditional form but equally, I've enjoyed the last few months. Our limitations are obvious - no high class spinner, an ageing attack and few options at three in the batting order. And yet, in spite of criticism of individual players, who in county cricket has been seriously overlooked and can feel hard done by? Foakes perhaps?

The whole ethos of Stokes, McCullum & Bazball is that Test cricket is dying, and it's up to them to reinvigorate it by adopting a hyper-aggressive t20 style of play.

We can argue about whether that's true or not (my argument would be that no one has been watching Test cricket outside of England, Australia and occasionally India for decades anyway - but it survived as an elder statesman to the t20 game that brings all the money in, because everyone recognized that it was the hardest, most testing examination of a cricketer's abilities......and because of tradition)

But every time I see Harry Brook take a wild cross-batted hoick when the score is finely poised, or Joe Root trying to ramp Pat Cummins first ball of the day for six, I die a little bit inside. All Bazball is doing is killing off the slow, subtle, patient game of Test cricket that I love that much more quickly.

And the fact that they don't even seem to care all that much about winning just makes it worse.

 

[SteMerritt]

I take it you haven't watched any of the US T20 abomination then @tonyw? The next stage of the IPL quest for world domination.

 

[tonyw]

I take it you haven't watched any of the US T20 abomination then @tonyw? The next stage of the IPL quest for world domination.

I have not - never watched an IPL game, any of the Hundred and I sure as hell won't watch this US league either!

(though I would have to confess to watching quite a few Middlesex t20 games when I lived in London - on a nice summer's evening, you can't really beat a few hours on the beers at Lord's........)

 

[SteMerritt]

I have not - never watched an IPL game, any of the Hundred and I sure as hell won't watch this US league either!

(though I would have to confess to watching quite a few Middlesex t20 games when I lived in London - on a nice summer's evening, you can't really beat a few hours on the beers at Lord's........)

I'll forgive anyone watching Middx, any format. Of course, Middx are trying to put people off of white-ball cricket by being completely useless at it, I remember us being 20-6 in a 50 over game at Hampshire one time when I dragged Mrs M down there for a game...

 

[38yearsofpain]

The whole ethos of Stokes, McCullum & Bazball is that Test cricket is dying, and it's up to them to reinvigorate it by adopting a hyper-aggressive t20 style of play.

We can argue about whether that's true or not (my argument would be that no one has been watching Test cricket outside of England, Australia and occasionally India for decades anyway - but it survived as an elder statesman to the t20 game that brings all the money in, because everyone recognized that it was the hardest, most testing examination of a cricketer's abilities......and because of tradition)

But every time I see Harry Brook take a wild cross-batted hoick when the score is finely poised, or Joe Root trying to ramp Pat Cummins first ball of the day for six, I die a little bit inside. All Bazball is doing is killing off the slow, subtle, patient game of Test cricket that I love that much more quickly.

And the fact that they don't even seem to care all that much about winning just makes it worse.

I completely understand your position. But the reality is test cricket will not survive if it is not financially viable. All the players know they have to be good 20 - 20 players to make a very good living. That means those skills inevitably will become the norm in test cricket.
If financial constraints were irrelevant, a spare day would be made available to ensure the match concluded, it was for the India v Australia world test final. But the test schedule is becoming more compacted because it interferes with the 20-20 formats throughout the world. Test cricket is being squeezed and if it's popularity in England waned it would die. Sad but very true.
The climax of a 5 day test match is unbeatable but it happens so infrequently and that does not fit into today's instant results society.