National News PC gone mad? Chestfeeding

[LeftSideBoy]

Ultimately those people will be disappointed then.

Why do you assume they will be disappointed?

 

[Eaststanding]

Ultimately those people will be disappointed then.

I was simply explaining a broader viewpoint on change.
Dissapointed? Maybe. Angry, upset? Maybe.
We live in a democracy, every day since time began people have resisted change. What they do or don’t do about that depends on their strength of feeling.
To expect there to be a broadly tolerant and diverse society there will be a diverse range of responses to change. Don’t dismiss that out of hand.

 

[MC Yellow]

Women who bear children have breasts that produce milk to feed their new born, hence the word “Breast Feeding”. It is simply a statement of fact, nothing more.

I have no issue or opinion with how people wish to live their life or how they wish to identify themselves, it is of no consequence to me and is something that I cant begin to understand because it is not something that has ever impacted on my life.

But why should we have to ignore the science and biology for fear of offending someone? It is this pampering to be seen to be politically correct that annoys me. Sometimes black is actually black and white is actually white.

@rosieburns, are you offended by the term breast feeding? Do you consider the term chest feeding to me more accurate? And if so, why?

 

[Marked Ox]

Why do you assume they will be disappointed?

Because change happens whether people like it or not, it is just about the one constant in life.

 

[Marked Ox]

I was simply explaining a broader viewpoint on change.
Dissapointed? Maybe. Angry, upset? Maybe.
We live in a democracy, every day since time began people have resisted change. What they do or don’t do about that depends on their strength of feeling.
To expect there to be a broadly tolerant and diverse society there will be a diverse range of responses to change. Don’t dismiss that out of hand.

I'm not dismissing it but as mentioned, a constant of life is change whether people like change or not.

 

[chuckbert]

Has anyone found a link to the actual document. I’ve struggled from my phone - it would help if journalists linked to the primary source. I’d love to have a look and see if all the froth is worth it.

 

[chuckbert]

all this ranting and chest beating, berating the left and liberal sensibilities.

Sorry mate - forum rules, that should be “breast beating”.

 

[westyorkshireexile]

My butcher was very confused when I asked for 1kg of chicken chest.

 

[rosieburns]

Women who bear children have breasts that produce milk to feed their new born, hence the word “Breast Feeding”. It is simply a statement of fact, nothing more.

I have no issue or opinion with how people wish to live their life or how they wish to identify themselves, it is of no consequence to me and is something that I cant begin to understand because it is not something that has ever impacted on my life.

But why should we have to ignore the science and biology for fear of offending someone? It is this pampering to be seen to be politically correct that annoys me. Sometimes black is actually black and white is actually white.

@rosieburns, are you offended by the term breast feeding? Do you consider the term chest feeding to me more accurate? And if so, why?

No I'm not offended by the term breast feeding.

 

[chuckbert]

Looks like the document has been pulled - there were links from the bbc news article (#responsiblejournalism), but they point nowhere now.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

From the title of this thread, I was worried that something mentally terrible had overcome one of our finest... Paul Cannell!
But on reading the four pages of comment, I find that it is something even more sinister...
Woke Weaning!!!
I wonder what he would make of all this??

 

[Mojofilter]

That’s understandable but as things inevitably change in society people also need to recognise and be cognisant of the fact that some find those changes are hard to understand and even harder to accept.
Some people just cannot and will not accept that change, so don’t force it upon them and expect them to roll over.

I think this is a key point. Some people just don't want to, or cannot, understand that actually very few concepts are simple and definite. It's annoying having to change the way you look at things, but unfortunately that is what we're meant to do with new information.

I guess whenever i see people who are very rigid in anti trans stuff, for whatever reason, i just tend to think "why does it matter?". As in, you may think it's not the right term, much like you may think Eddie Izzard isn't a woman even if she wants to be, but there's no discernible harm to be done by being inclusive but significant evidence shows trans and non binary people suffer depression and suicidality which is heavily negated if they are treated inclusively.

It does no good to try beat a new concept into someone who isn't open to it, but "why not just live and let live?" is much easier to get your head around

 

[Mojofilter]

@rosieburns, are you offended by the term breast feeding? Do you consider the term chest feeding to me more accurate? And if so, why?

I think the move is aimed at ftm trans men, who identify as men but might still be able to breast feed, rather then mtf trans women. I can imagine very few trans men actually give a toss either way because there are bigger fish to fry in the trans world right now than name games, mind.

 

[Oslernorth]

It's actually a sign that the left is weak and disoriented that we have to put up with this kind of crap instead of good old fashioned class struggle.

It’s only the Right leaning media in their outrage that highlight and by doing so, promote this stuff. Otherwise nobody would have even heard of it.

 

[Oslernorth]

The danger is societal. This kind of rubbish will effect our children and our children’s children. They are obscuring reality, for the sake of being inclusive. They are changing the way we view sex and gender when in REALITY, there are 2 genders and only two genders. I didn’t feel anything but that’s because I don’t buy into any of this weird lefty rubbish.

This kind of shite is being taught in schools and is being pushed on us through the media. There is an agenda at hand here. Our children are being indoctrinated and you can’t say a bloody thing about it, or you are called whatever ‘ist’ they decide to throw at you. No, I don’t want my child to grow up to sexually identify as Kevin Francis whilst thinking he can suck on his Dads tits to get fed. All because some weirdo at a lefty institution has now decided that’s how the world is. Its bonkers.

Anatomically and scientifically speaking, only a woman can breast feed. To suggest otherwise is downright weird. No amount of ‘woke’ will change scientific fact..

I think you’ve been played by the media. If it didn’t get people’s backs up, it wouldn’t be a story.
No one’s going to chastise you for referring to breastfeeding. I’m not sure how you’ve ended up in a position where you think you would be?

 

[bashamwonderland]

I think this is a key point. Some people just don't want to, or cannot, understand that actually very few concepts are simple and definite. It's annoying having to change the way you look at things, but unfortunately that is what we're meant to do with new information.

I guess whenever i see people who are very rigid in anti trans stuff, for whatever reason, i just tend to think "why does it matter?". As in, you may think it's not the right term, much like you may think Eddie Izzard isn't a woman even if she wants to be, but there's no discernible harm to be done by being inclusive but significant evidence shows trans and non binary people suffer depression and suicidality which is heavily negated if they are treated inclusively.

It does no good to try beat a new concept into someone who isn't open to it, but "why not just live and let live?" is much easier to get your head around

Your "live and let live" point is perfectly valid. However, when new rules on speech are imposed at an NHS trust you aren't doing that. You're mandating speech on ideological grounds. The staff who refuse to go along with the new mandatory speech rules or speak out because they find it doesn't match their values could face disciplinary action or trial by social media. They might lose their job because they don't follow the speech rules. Not everyone wants to call breast feeding "chest feeding". It isn't a biologically legitimate concept.

At the end of the day although everyone can argue about this on the forum, posters like Rosie Burns are still being looked at as "one of us" on here. I am sure (and I hope) she isn't facing any abusive private messages on here, and I get the impression that people aren't being aggressive or abusive towards her because of who she is. That's a nice thing.

I think ultimately your "why does it all matter" point is your strongest. We're in the late stages of western civilized culture. We've become so privileged that we can now afford to waste time arguing over whether men can produce breast milk and making new rules to appease those who are upset by the fact that they can't. The climate is going to get 3 degrees warmer by the end of the century and the world will soon be a much more uncomfortable and unpleasant place. Perhaps we should all just enjoy the fact that we have the time and energy to argue over these ridiculous concepts because soon we probably won't have the luxury.

 

[rosieburns]

I was simply explaining a broader viewpoint on change.
Dissapointed? Maybe. Angry, upset? Maybe.
We live in a democracy, every day since time began people have resisted change. What they do or don’t do about that depends on their strength of feeling.
To expect there to be a broadly tolerant and diverse society there will be a diverse range of responses to change. Don’t dismiss that out of hand.

And don't dismiss people trying to change. Those suffragettes, who do the hell they think they were. Trying to change the way society treated them and to be treated equally. Dam the lot of them !!

 

[rosieburns]

Your "live and let live" point is perfectly valid. However, when new rules on speech are imposed at an NHS trust you aren't doing that. You're mandating speech on ideological grounds. The staff who refuse to go along with the new mandatory speech rules or speak out because they find it doesn't match their values could face disciplinary action or trial by social media. They might lose their job because they don't follow the speech rules. Not everyone wants to call breast feeding "chest feeding". It isn't a biologically legitimate concept.

At the end of the day although everyone can argue about this on the forum, posters like Rosie Burns are still being looked at as "one of us" on here. I am sure (and I hope) she isn't facing any abusive private messages on here, and I get the impression that people aren't being aggressive or abusive towards her because of who she is. That's a nice thing.

I think ultimately your "why does it all matter" point is your strongest. We're in the late stages of western civilized culture. We've become so privileged that we can now afford to waste time arguing over whether men can produce breast milk and making new rules to appease those who are upset by the fact that they can't. The climate is going to get 3 degrees warmer by the end of the century and the world will soon be a much more uncomfortable and unpleasant place. Perhaps we should all just enjoy the fact that we have the time and energy to argue over these ridiculous concepts because soon we probably won't have the luxury.

I've had no personal messages form here.
Have to disagree with you in that everyone on here is inclusive, when people have a closed mind and think there children would be weird because they are not seen as normal , some people will never change.
Any also this may disappoint point you, I have only once faced any kind of abuse at a football ground and that was from "one of our own" oxford supporters.

 

[Eaststanding]

And don't dismiss people trying to change. Those suffragettes, who do the hell they think they were. Trying to change the way society treated them and to be treated equally. Dam the lot of them !!

Yeah, what were they thinking...
No, I’m really not doing that. Change will happen, that is undoubtedly a good thing for this world and most of my working life was spent devising policies for change with people and process. So my incredulity was largely aimed at the trust who spent time and effort on creating a 19 page guidance document, sounds disproportionate to me, but also about allowing people to adapt to change, if they can and if they want to.
It’s not easy for some people to do either, I’m one of them, and as you said, some will never change.

 

[LeftSideBoy]

I think you’ve been played by the media. If it didn’t get people’s backs up, it wouldn’t be a story.
No one’s going to chastise you for referring to breastfeeding. I’m not sure how you’ve ended up in a position where you think you would be?

I’m not just talking about ‘chest feeding’ - I’m talking about the other societal and cultural changes that are being forced upon us. All of this ‘inclusive’ lefty rubbish is pushing our society to a place that I don’t believe we should be heading towards. You cannot let the minority rule the majority. That’s what is happening. It’s far bigger than this one specific example.