50% capacity

WokinghamYellow said:
It’s quite simple, respect the rules or don’t bother coming. A lot of people have died, Just get on with it, do your time, stop bitching. It’s better than being dead or causing another’s death.

And I want to go to the footy.
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What a well thought out and reasoned argument. I’m a 🇬🇧 citizen and so I’ll be returning to my native country as is my right. I’ve travelled the world and one of the benefits is you tend to learn much about different view points, ideas and ways of working and diversity of thought tends to strengthen conclusions.

You’re assuming that because I disagree with the rules that I don’t follow them? Rather presumptuous and incorrect. I don’t always agree with certain tax rates but I always pay them.

Your reaction to an opinion challenging a certain logic is that it’s bitching?

1700 people die a year on Britain’s roads. Every time you go and drive you could end up dead or cause another persons death. So probably time you stopped driving.
 
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Does anyone have a figure for how many season tickets we have at present?

With 4000 allowed in for the Blackpool game it’ll be interesting to see if many go on sale to the membership club.
 
Thought we were over 4k ST`s ? Or was that the year before? :unsure:

That aside I also thought Wimbledon ticket holders get first dibs for missing Boxing Day?

Either way I`ve kind of accepted it`ll probably be ifollow for me which I`m fine with.
 
Ricky Otto said:
I have to say looking from the outside in the UK has completely lost any sense of proportionality. It’s as if the concept of death is completely new and can no longer be tolerated. And that a bizarre series of freedom impinging decisions have been catapulted at random in order to respond that are completely disproportionate to the risk.

Reading the bbc today that the headline is the government are considering allowing hugging again. That’s insane that this has become an accepted reality of totalitarianism. Yes Covid is bad. Yes it’s a risk. But let’s actually take a step back and understand the journey that we’ve allowed it to take us down.

im coming home next month and I’m fully vaccinated. Yet I have to quarantine for ten days and I’m prohibited from leaving my designated venue. Even for country walks close to nobody. What on earth????
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Seen what's happening in India?
 
Ricky Otto said:
What a well thought out and reasoned argument. I’m a 🇬🇧 citizen and so I’ll be returning to my native country as is my right. I’ve travelled the world and one of the benefits is you tend to learn much about different view points, ideas and ways of working and diversity of thought tends to strengthen conclusions.

You’re assuming that because I disagree with the rules that I don’t follow them? Rather presumptuous and incorrect. I don’t always agree with certain tax rates but I always pay them.

Your reaction to an opinion challenging a certain logic is that it’s bitching?

1700 people die a year on Britain’s roads. Every time you go and drive you could end up dead or cause another persons death. So probably time you stopped driving.
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You realise that in January we had 1800 a DAY dying from Covid? A full year’s road deaths every day, more than half a million a year if sustained.
 
Ricky Otto said:
What a well thought out and reasoned argument. I’m a 🇬🇧 citizen and so I’ll be returning to my native country as is my right. I’ve travelled the world and one of the benefits is you tend to learn much about different view points, ideas and ways of working and diversity of thought tends to strengthen conclusions.

You’re assuming that because I disagree with the rules that I don’t follow them? Rather presumptuous and incorrect. I don’t always agree with certain tax rates but I always pay them.

Your reaction to an opinion challenging a certain logic is that it’s bitching?

1700 people die a year on Britain’s roads. Every time you go and drive you could end up dead or cause another persons death. So probably time you stopped driving.
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I'll be honest with you, I'd rather the over-reaction we might be having now than the under-reaction and lack of control exerted last year.
 
Essexyellows said:
Thought we were over 4k ST`s ? Or was that the year before? :unsure:

That aside I also thought Wimbledon ticket holders get first dibs for missing Boxing Day?

Either way I`ve kind of accepted it`ll probably be ifollow for me which I`m fine with.
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IFollow won’t be operating if it’s also on Sky, though, will it?
 
There has been some wonderfully unifying moments throughout this lockdown, but sadly also some very selfish attitudes.

Stop all those foreigners? Damn right!! Quarantine those from India? Of course!!! What about the celebs in Dubai? Fine them!!!

But don't mess with MY holiday, or MY civil liberties!! I want to do what I want when I want and no stuck up politician (or acclaimed scientists) will tell ME what to do!!!!

The virus remains a risk. Vaccination neither prevents infection or transmission so the only way to be sure that people don't put others at risk is to enforce a period of isolation before and/or after your arrival. Don't like it? Don't come.

For all the faults of the government at the beginning of this, we are now I a very strong position with vast numbers vaccinated, infections down and deaths into single figures on many days. But we simply don't know how effective this will all be if new variants come into the country. Months of good work and billions of pounds of investment into our covid processes could all be wasted if we drop our guard now.

So, if you travel, you must quarantine. If you go to football games you must wear a mask. Dem the rules!!! Suck it up, buttercup!!
 
guyellow said:
Depends. They negotiated access on iFollow for the Lincoln match which was on Sky.
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Yes because that was a match that ST holders had paid to watch, Playoffs are extra, therefore we have not paid for this match.

Sky will be showing it exclusively in this country.
 
Scotchegg said:
There has been some wonderfully unifying moments throughout this lockdown, but sadly also some very selfish attitudes.

Stop all those foreigners? Damn right!! Quarantine those from India? Of course!!! What about the celebs in Dubai? Fine them!!!

But don't mess with MY holiday, or MY civil liberties!! I want to do what I want when I want and no stuck up politician (or acclaimed scientists) will tell ME what to do!!!!

The virus remains a risk. Vaccination neither prevents infection or transmission so the only way to be sure that people don't put others at risk is to enforce a period of isolation before and/or after your arrival. Don't like it? Don't come.

For all the faults of the government at the beginning of this, we are now I a very strong position with vast numbers vaccinated, infections down and deaths into single figures on many days. But we simply don't know how effective this will all be if new variants come into the country. Months of good work and billions of pounds of investment into our covid processes could all be wasted if we drop our guard now.

So, if you travel, you must quarantine. If you go to football games you must wear a mask. Dem the rules!!! Suck it up, buttercup!!
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You appear to have willfully ignored the points I was making. And a little triggered by someone having a different viewpoint to you so needing to shut it down and cancel it out by accusing it of being selfish.

I’m all for controls and managing Covid. I believe in masks, vaccines, social distancing and being aware of the risks. I’m talking about proportionality. Your whimsical and unthinking dismissal of the concept of civil liberties perfectly articulated the point I’m making. You try to imply that me challenging the notion of a policy is one of self interest rather than of societal balance.

Also you state “the only way to be sure that people don’t put others at risk is to enforce a period of isolation”. In that sentence you infer a 100% guarantee of that approach (there is no guarantee from that approach) but yet simultaneously dismiss the relevance of vaccines because they’re not a guarantee. Once again failing to understand the point being made that’s not about controlling Covid but about proportionality.

The fact that there are a few responses on here that are so adamant and emotively determined that there can only be one view rather than a grey scale of responses convinced me further of the original idea that there’s been a willing acceptance of the erosion of liberties. And then there’s the guy who keeps people locked up for a living bathing in the glory of new incarcerations.

Covid isn’t going anywhere. Deaths are tragic but down to incredibly low numbers with high vaccine levels.

There will always be a reason to retain the erosion of liberties to protect against the disease. Itll be interesting to see the new accepted normal .
 
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werthersoriginal said:
You realise that in January we had 1800 a DAY dying from Covid? A full year’s road deaths every day, more than half a million a year if sustained.
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Yes. And listened to scientific advice from a range of advisors.

I’ve followed the data very closely in multiple countries because I sit on a global Covid risk committee responsible for building a response.

I don’t believe raw extrapolations like yours are numerically pure because January is peak flu season and conditions are at their most ripe.

Compare the UK and Texas as an example. One had a full and unconditional lockdown. The other followed basic social distancing but schools, shops, bars, restaurants remained open. Outdoor events continued.

The rate of Covid declined at exactly the same speed in both scenarios.

I’m challenging the idea that there may only be one response to this disease.
 
Ricky Otto said:
Covid isn’t going anywhere. Deaths are tragic but down to incredibly low numbers with high vaccine levels.

There will always be a reason to retain the erosion of liberties to protect against the disease. Itll be interesting to see the new accepted normal .
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I don't have access to the information that you have, but I have some info. On the specific issue of air travel and quarantine I would quarantine arrivals by air (and by sea) from all points, I also wouldn't give exemptions to the family and friends of the government or influencers doing "essential work" in Dubai, or anyone else.

This is why - there are billions upon billions of individual virus cells (whatever they are properly) whizzing around and mutating like motherfuckers. While there are vast reservoirs of the virus in Brasil, India, Africa(?) etc it can be guaranteed that new strains will appear and it can't be guaranteed that one or more won't be more dangerous or that they all will be amenable to suppression by vaccines. This country has one advantage over most countries - it's an island. Using quarantine to reduce import of the disease should enable 'more normal' behaviour.

When should quarantine of international arrivals end? Seems logical that resumption of travel should coincide with the reduction of the risk of dangerous new mutants appearing, which won't before every human has had the option of vaccination and a means is in place to deliver updates quickly, universally.

There can be many responses to the disease I agree, but I put it to you that the key requirement is in the paragraph above. I doubt that a comparison between Texas and the UK is much use.
 
New mutants. Likely to emerge. Risk: far less significant because as with most other vaccines the core structure of the disease and resulting vaccine is understood so it’s no longer a 9 month journey to success. Plus the incumbent vaccine may not have the same efficacy but is still likely to protect to a degree thereby you may contract the virus but are less likely to die.

Unless I’m reading it wrong youre implying that restrictions on freedom of movement shouldn’t be restored until the whole planet has had the most up to date vaccine? In which case permanent rolling back of human rights to protect us for our greater good?
(Not arguing just checking I understand the logic)
 
Junior_1 said:
Does anyone have a figure for how many season tickets we have at present?

With 4000 allowed in for the Blackpool game it’ll be interesting to see if many go on sale to the membership club.
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I think it was about 3,500 this year as some ST holders didn't renew - understandable given people's personal circumstances in some cases. Some of these 3,500 won't attend due to:

- work commitments with a 6pm kick-off
- vulnerability
- holiday booked
- geography i.e. too far to come when it's on Sky and is free to subscribers or £10 via NOWTV

So it if is 4,000 capacity and that's the number I've heard we're aiming for, then I can see a lot of Members on the database from last year being offered tickets. Same for Wembley if we get there with a c.5,000 allocation.
 
I don't really know what the Government's long term plan is anymore to be honest. Has it now switched to a 0 Covid aim rather than just ensuring that the NHS isn't overwhelmed?

It does make me laugh when people say I would rather follow 'the Science' than listen to people who are now criticising this (current) overreaction. Scientists have been debating this from day 1...so which 'Science' do we listen to? The Great Barrington Declaration was swept under the carpet and kept hush hush by the Media. The only 'Science' the Public are being presented is from SAGE (and before Professor Neil Ferguson and his dodgy models).

People saying 'I would rather the overreaction of now than the under-reaction last year'...well that would be fine if there were no knock on effects of a lockdown, but there are. Tell that to people who's businesses/livelihoods have been destroyed, or people who have missed cancer screenings and possible detection of other serious illnesses. Young children who have grown up in the last year without seeing faces, how is that going to impact a future generation?! Or people with serious mental health issues...what will the cost of this be?

I do understand a cautious approach before all vulnerable people were vaccinated but as I've said before on here, restrictions on our lives must be a final resort.
 
Tomox said:
I don't really know what the Government's long term plan is anymore to be honest. Has it now switched to a 0 Covid aim rather than just ensuring that the NHS isn't overwhelmed?

It does make me laugh when people say I would rather follow 'the Science' than listen to people who are now criticising this (current) overreaction. Scientists have been debating this from day 1...so which 'Science' do we listen to? The Great Barrington Declaration was swept under the carpet and kept hush hush by the Media. The only 'Science' the Public are being presented is from SAGE (and before Professor Neil Ferguson and his dodgy models).

People saying 'I would rather the overreaction of now than the under-reaction last year'...well that would be fine if there were no knock on effects of a lockdown, but there are. Tell that to people who's businesses/livelihoods have been destroyed, or people who have missed cancer screenings and possible detection of other serious illnesses. Young children who have grown up in the last year without seeing faces, how is that going to impact a future generation?! Or people with serious mental health issues...what will the cost of this be?

I do understand a cautious approach before all vulnerable people were vaccinated but as I've said before on here, restrictions on our lives must be a final resort.
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The Great Barrington Declaration was sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research, a libertarian free market thinktank associated with climate change denial. It was signed by only three people, at least one of whom, Sunetra Gupta, certainly doesn't have a lot of credibility. There isn't a need to be presented with a choice of 'Sciences' - the latest reviewed research is fine. And I've never understood the objection to 'restrictions on our lives', as we have innumerable restrictions on our lives in the developed world, as a consequence of having a system of laws and regulations. However, I do agree that there needs to be an end game, a plan for exiting lockdowns.
 
Tomox said:
It does make me laugh when people say I would rather follow 'the Science' than listen to people who are now criticising this (current) overreaction.
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When the vast majority of scientists agree on something (whether on SAGE or not) in a situation like this then it seems prudent to follow their advice. So far, after a dodgy start when the government didn't really seem to grasp the importance of acting quickly and were actually giving some credence to the 'herd immunity' pressure groups, the 'Science' as presented seems to have led to the quick production of an effective virus, the reduction of infections and deaths and the relief of pressure on the NHS.

Many of those criticising the reaction are the same ones that have been (from the start) deniers, conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, back bench Tory 'freedom at all costs' merchants, those with vested interests and the tin foil hat brigade in general. When the public is faced with those two choices - which do you think will hold sway with the more reasonable?

That's not to say that there isn't a debate to be had about where we go now and how quickly. And of course the restrictions have been very onerous and damaging for some people. But while the virus is under control in this country that is certainly not the case worldwide. I am not this government's greatest fan, and do think they have used this crisis to do some very dodgy things, but I think the *gradual* relaxation of the rules is exactly right.
 
So i'm a ST holder, however i offered my ticked back for Boxing day as i had been to the 3 previous games in December, if i am told that i can't get one then i won't complain

As long as whoever gets to go chants loud and proud!
 
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