50% capacity

By then the vast majority will be vaccinated so why can’t things get back to normal? I’m all for following the advice from scientists but I don’t understand. If everyone is vaccinated and we still can’t get back to normal, when will we ever get there
 
werthersoriginal said:
Use words sonny.
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He's right. If you don't want to hurdle headlong into another Covid outbreak you're a sheep. Nonsense to even think about new variants that may be resistant to vaccines. Similarly, all those who had even the slightest doubt about Brexit were 'snowflakes'. Why construct meaningful sentences when you can use simple labels? Saves the effort of thinking.
 
Pete Burrett said:
He's right. If you don't want to hurdle headlong into another Covid outbreak you're a sheep. Nonsense to even think about new variants that may be resistant to vaccines. Similarly, all those who had even the slightest doubt about Brexit were 'snowflakes'. Why construct meaningful sentences when you can use simple labels? Saves the effort of thinking.
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I think fair questions are what will half capacity attendances do to stop an out break of a new variant? How long do we live in fear of a possibility happening before returning to normal life?

Bit early to make a decision for me now anyway, games are not till August so no point deciding anything until much nearer the time.
 
holdsteady said:
I think fair questions are what will half capacity attendances do to stop an out break of a new variant? How long do we live in fear of a possibility happening before returning to normal life?

Bit early to make a decision for me now anyway, games are not till August so no point deciding anything until much nearer the time.
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I agree that some risks will need to be taken at some time, or we potentially will never get back to how things were pre-outbreak. What I don't accept is the 'don't be a sheep' attitude of some who want everything to return to normal NOW without giving any thought to the possible ramifications.

Will I be back at the bar of my local on May 17th just because I can? Probably not.
 
NothingCompares2You said:
By then the vast majority will be vaccinated so why can’t things get back to normal? I’m all for following the advice from scientists but I don’t understand. If everyone is vaccinated and we still can’t get back to normal, when will we ever get there
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Only the people from a small rock in the North Atlantic will be vaccinated. Not enough to stop a worldwide pandemic!
 
It's not even as complicated as 'following the science'.

If a fuckton of people start catching it again and the hospital wards start filling up we'll take steps backwards.
 
The UK has done well with its vaccine programme, but unfortunately what we're not doing well is stopping variants coming in from other countries who aren't vaccinating as we are. At 50% capacity it's possible to have a semblance of social distancing to keep people safe, but also allows for a proper atmosphere and nearly all the home attendance anyway. I want to get back to normal ASAP because my son, born in June, has lived his entire life in lockdown. But the moment we drop our guard, like we did last autumn, is the moment we put ourselves at risk of more variants and being stuck in lockdown longer. We all hate it, but if it protects our vulnerable loved ones I'll keep locked down for as long as it takes. I'm glad to a degree our government is now taking it seriously too after several months of not bothering.
 
Oslernorth said:
Only the people from a small rock in the North Atlantic will be vaccinated. Not enough to stop a worldwide pandemic!
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Ok I get that. But the people at the game aren’t going to be coming from a country at risk are they, because any country deemed so would have to quarantine?
 
Whatever the numbers are, to be allowed in for the playoff game, and it might come across slightly controversial! I’d give priority to the supporters who had there Wimbledon game cancelled out on Boxing Day. I think that is the fairest way to go.

Maybe all ST holders can attend, then brilliant as we can all cheer our lads on, hopefully watch us win the first leg against Blackpool.
 
Pete Burrett said:
He's right. If you don't want to hurdle headlong into another Covid outbreak you're a sheep. Nonsense to even think about new variants that may be resistant to vaccines. Similarly, all those who had even the slightest doubt about Brexit were 'snowflakes'. Why construct meaningful sentences when you can use simple labels? Saves the effort of thinking.
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I have to say looking from the outside in the UK has completely lost any sense of proportionality. It’s as if the concept of death is completely new and can no longer be tolerated. And that a bizarre series of freedom impinging decisions have been catapulted at random in order to respond that are completely disproportionate to the risk.

Reading the bbc today that the headline is the government are considering allowing hugging again. That’s insane that this has become an accepted reality of totalitarianism. Yes Covid is bad. Yes it’s a risk. But let’s actually take a step back and understand the journey that we’ve allowed it to take us down.

im coming home next month and I’m fully vaccinated. Yet I have to quarantine for ten days and I’m prohibited from leaving my designated venue. Even for country walks close to nobody. What on earth????
 
Ricky Otto said:
I have to say looking from the outside in the UK has completely lost any sense of proportionality. It’s as if the concept of death is completely new and can no longer be tolerated. And that a bizarre series of freedom impinging decisions have been catapulted at random in order to respond that are completely disproportionate to the risk.

Reading the bbc today that the headline is the government are considering allowing hugging again. That’s insane that this has become an accepted reality of totalitarianism. Yes Covid is bad. Yes it’s a risk. But let’s actually take a step back and understand the journey that we’ve allowed it to take us down.

im coming home next month and I’m fully vaccinated. Yet I have to quarantine for ten days and I’m prohibited from leaving my designated venue. Even for country walks close to nobody. What on earth????
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Texans have been maltreated since Charlene shot JR.
 
Ricky Otto said:
I have to say looking from the outside in the UK has completely lost any sense of proportionality. It’s as if the concept of death is completely new and can no longer be tolerated. And that a bizarre series of freedom impinging decisions have been catapulted at random in order to respond that are completely disproportionate to the risk.

Reading the bbc today that the headline is the government are considering allowing hugging again. That’s insane that this has become an accepted reality of totalitarianism. Yes Covid is bad. Yes it’s a risk. But let’s actually take a step back and understand the journey that we’ve allowed it to take us down.

im coming home next month and I’m fully vaccinated. Yet I have to quarantine for ten days and I’m prohibited from leaving my designated venue. Even for country walks close to nobody. What on earth????
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Or of course, you could say that because of the vast majority of people accepting vaccination, social distancing, washing their hands etc the death rates in the UK have come right down, the infection rate is at a very low level and these 'totalitarian' measures are being relaxed when the science says it is safe to do so. It is not that 'the concept of death is completely new' , it is that hospitals nearly being overwhelmed and 1200 people dying a day was not something anyone want to see continuing or getting worse.

The reality of the situation is that many people have been making sensible decisions for themselves about the 'rules', weighing up risk and deciding what is acceptable. Most people are NOT sheep, despite what the deniers and conspiracy nuts say. If these rules were really that unreasonable, they really would have been completely ignored wholesale. The alternative to the rules being in place with a bit of 'creep' being tacitly allowed is India. Or the 35,000 new cases a day in the US.

I know it's inconvenient and expensive to quarantine - but the import of variants of the disease (which you can still carry even if you are vaccinated, although the transmission risk *is* lower) are the greatest threat to the easing of the restrictions: so asking people who are coming into this country from places where the disease is still rife to isolate is completely logical and sensible.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
Or of course, you could say that because of the vast majority of people accepting vaccination, social distancing, washing their hands etc the death rates in the UK have come right down, the infection rate is at a very low level and these 'totalitarian' measures are being relaxed when the science says it is safe to do so. It is not that 'the concept of death is completely new' , it is that hospitals nearly being overwhelmed and 1200 people dying a day was not something anyone want to see continuing or getting worse.

The reality of the situation is that many people have been making sensible decisions for themselves about the 'rules', weighing up risk and deciding what is acceptable. Most people are NOT sheep, despite what the deniers and conspiracy nuts say. If these rules were really that unreasonable, they really would have been completely ignored wholesale. The alternative to the rules being in place with a bit of 'creep' being tacitly allowed is India. Or the 35,000 new cases a day in the US.

I know it's inconvenient and expensive to quarantine - but the import of variants of the disease (which you can still carry even if you are vaccinated, although the transmission risk *is* lower) are the greatest threat to the easing of the restrictions: so asking people who are coming into this country from places where the disease is still rife to isolate is completely logical and sensible.
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Science says that vaccines make you very unlikely to die or to pass it on.
 
Ricky Otto said:
Science says that vaccines make you very unlikely to die or to pass it on.
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We’re still at a dangerous point where if the virus is allowed to circulate freely it could mutate into a variant we can’t treat or vaccinate against. The restrictions on freedom that you complain about are just on a par with laws against drink driving and smoking indoors- to protect others. And no one will arrest you for a hug.
 
Ricky Otto said:
Science says that vaccines make you very unlikely to die or to pass it on.
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Well yes, but 'unlikely' to pass it on does not mean 'cannot' pass it on. So if you are coming into the country you need to quarantine for a bit and those of us in the country already need to observe hygiene measures and sensible social distancing to avoid passing it about (whether we are vaccinated or not) to others who may be more vulnerable. Apart from anything else that is common courtesy and respecting your fellow human beings.
 
Managing risk doesn’t mean eliminating it. Otherwise we’d never get in a car or eat a peanut. It’s about a proportional balance.

I absolutely have been on board with masks, recognizing the danger, etc.

I’m completely on board with respecting other humans. But then you’re talking about the lens of respect. A mask wearing vaccinated person being incarcerated for ten days seems like disrespectful government overreach. What level of Covid are we ok with to restore freedoms? Because this disease is not going away for years quite clearly

But the measures in place are disproportionate and Thats counter to the very concept of risk management. Good risk management allows you to continue to operate with appropriate controls commensurate with the issue in hand at a place or time. Science has been alluded to above. So the science supports the vaccine legitimating interactivity again.

I’d disagree with werthers too because you’re ignoring the data with your assertions. I’d always follow the data.

Anyway we can agree to disagree I’m ok with that. One of our great freedoms
 
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Ricky Otto said:
Managing risk doesn’t mean eliminating it. Otherwise we’d never get in a car or eat a peanut. It’s about a proportional balance.

I absolutely have been on board with masks, recognizing the danger, etc. But the measures in place are disproportionate and Thats counter to the very concept of risk management. Good risk management allows you to continue to operate with appropriate controls commensurate with the issue in hand at a place or time
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I’ll be honest with you - this lot got it SO spectacularly wrong, multiple times, and caused such incredible damage all through 2020, that I would almost be happy if they told everybody to roll themselves around in giant hamster balls for the next year. It’s one of the few things they could say that would make me think, “I trust that this might be safe.”

We’re one of the only countries on earth to have produced a dominant (and therefore known) variant, alongside countries that in some quarters are classed as third world. Brazil has large sections of its society that are third world; ditto South Africa. That is how bad we were at implementing restrictions, and how terribly wrong we got it. That’s the company that we’ve been keeping. It looks like even the Indian variant is a double mutation of ours. We have form. I think that an awful lot of people here are desperate for their lives back, absolutely pining for it in most instances, but don’t trust the people in charge to deliver it safely until the whole lot of us are properly vaccinated. I think a lot of people still have the mindset of, “The less this lot say that it’s okay for people to do, the better, because they’ll probably get it wrong.”

That’s how it feels, and what a lot of people have suggested who I know and that I’ve spoken to over the past few months. I can only offer that as a semi-explanation of sorts. Not saying I agree with all of it, at all, but you really had to be here, living in it day after day, to see how wrong we got it and how much it totally f*cked us. Plenty of people are happy to stick with it for just a touch longer, because it takes the responsibility out of the hands of the people who got it so wrong to begin with.

It’s a weird time. The sooner we all get a needle in the arm (two, ideally), the more comfortable I think nearly everyone will be to get back out there.
 
@Ricky Otto

I am sure that you are 99.9% safe - I do understand why you think it's overkill. The problem we all have is that a variant that is less affected by the vaccine has the capability to put us right back to square one and never mind hoping to go and watch football a week on Tuesday, we would be lucky to get out of our homes by the start of the next season! So yes, while it *probably is* (in your case, coming from the US, I presume) overkill, the same is certainly not true of people coming from India or South America or Africa (for example). And since there is no knowing who you have been in contact with, or where you've been, I can absolutely understand the restrictions - and in fact wish they had been put in place a lot earlier.

As RB says, our government got so much wrong and were consistently late in taking the appropriate action that people are still very cautious. I hope a desire to be popular doesn't railroad them into suddenly declaring that foreign holidays are just fine, with no quarantine needed!
 
It’s quite simple, respect the rules or don’t bother coming. A lot of people have died, Just get on with it, do your time, stop bitching. It’s better than being dead or causing another’s death.

And I want to go to the footy.
 
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