Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

Berliner said:
No longer allowed from 2023-24 season. Only one person is allowed to stand in the technical area.
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I always thought that was the case and if the person in the technical area steps out of it they were yellow carded
 
unification said:
Great post. 'Nowhere ready for promotion' sums it up. We're a reasonable side but to expect a jump from 19th last season to even 6th this season was always going to be a big one especially with the dumpster fire that KR left here.

Since posts are getting long and are making the same points, I'll aim to be brief.

On injuries, Karl Robinson's awful 2022 is still looming over us. There is so much money tied up in Murphy, Henry, Browne and Bodin who just don't contribute enough. They will be all be gone in the summer. That should free up some wages that can be better spent and spread out elsewhere. How we choose to spend it is another thing although the Waldron-led recruitment so far has appeared more promising. It's hard to pinpoint an exact answer on the others - some just more injury prone than others (Edwards), some through volume of football in recent years (Long), some just unlucky (Mills, Cumming)?

Regarding an Assistant Manager, my guess is that DB had an idea for who he wanted, contact was made but they/he decided to stay put. The advert was put out but DB wasn't happy with the shortlist. Hackett was always going to be promoted to the first team committee anyway and TW saw that as a chance to say the position was filled. I suspect DB went along with that yet still wants an Assistant Manager and feels he can get by with what he has for now.

Finally on this, a minor observation. LM and Hogg used to share the touchline a lot and converse about the game. DB doesn't have that and Short only twice went to him to offer his view. Maybe the existing backroom team need to be more visible rather than us hoping an Assistant Manager will 'solve' everything.
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Absolutely all this ^^^
We will need to be patient
 
oxfordkits said:
I really want Des to succeed, and understand the concerns raised about a lack of a clear plan and playing as a cohesive unit.

Let's be honest, when Manning was still here, I doubt many of us really believed the league table with Oxford in second was a true reflection. Results were patchy and had that feeling of one step forward (Derby, Barnsley) and one step back (Cambridge, Port Vale, MKD, Wigan). I suspect many of us suspected things would settle down and the bigger clubs would nudge their way past us.

Whilst Manning was here, the only significant injury was Browne. Right now, we have 11 first-teamers out, plus lost Beadle and Mills.

To say Des must go is for the birds. Firstly, it would be wholly unfair on him considering the hand he has been dealt (injuries, lack of backroom team, confusion with the board). And secondly, the money spent on bringing him here, and the inaction from the board regarding KR's dismissal, demonstrates we have to accept Des Buckingham is here for the long haul.

I would go further and say, we are nowhere near ready for promotion. We'd come tumbling straight back down. (Shef Wed, Blackpool). We need to build a squad and an identity for the long-term, right now, the club is not ready for the Championship.

Yes, this season does feel like a great opportunity being missed. But blaming Des Buckingham is not right, nor fair. Look how weak our bench was on Tuesday, we really are down to the bare bones.

So my questions are...
  • Why are we suffering so many injuries?
    Is our squad size limiting the chance of rotation causing us to 'overplay' our players?
    Why do we sign so many 'fragile' players?

  • Why has the board not appointed a proper Assistant Manager?

  • What on earth is going on with the Analyst position?

  • Does an OUFC manager have any say in recruitment? or is this solely the fiefdom of Ed Waldron?
Personally, I have written off this season. We ain't going to get promoted, and we certainly are not ready for promotion either. Top 30 club? Not a chance with our current senior execs.
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Great post.
 
TailsWeWin said:
Absolutely all this ^^^
We will need to be patient
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I agree we need to be patient.

What is making that harder is that I can't see what it is we are *trying* to do, and judging by the comments on here, neither can anyone else. I know we have injuries, but we also have some talented footballers who *are* fit and it is the job of a manager to make the best use of what he has got. Since we can't see what the plan is and, in addition, the current use of our players seems to be very 'suboptimal', it is not surprising that people are getting jittery.
 
uptheus said:
Then why does the club talk about getting promotion this season, and spending money in its pursuit of this, this season?
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This.

When recruiting for Manning's successor, I don't recall the club coming out and saying "as we're so obviously punching above our weight, we're now recruiting for a manager who can best mitigate against the inevitable downward spiral that's coming. If we finish top half we've done well".

I also can't imagine that the likes of Eustace or Williams lost out on the job because they only fancied themselves to get us to 14th, whereas Buckingham said 12th and the club agreed that was the best we could hope for.

We would surely have interviewed and appointed on the basis of who would be best placed to build on the excellent start to the season and secure promotion.

And so we should judge the quality of the appointment on that basis.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
He actually just needs a league 1 savvy no 2.
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That’s probably more expensive than we’re prepared to go, but that shouldn’t mean we just give up and hand it out to anyone with a tracksuit which is essentially what we’ve done. Players will look at that and wonder where on Earth the standards are.

If they made no difference, the elite coaches in the world wouldn’t have one. It’s staggering to think what we’ve invested in the potential of a manager and then have him operate at 30-40% capacity. He should still do better but everything about this partnership is wrong.

Could’ve had John Eustace/Gary Rowett arrive with an entourage day one who would’ve handled this idea of working in silos. That was the appointment best suited to the job description. It would’ve been kinder to Des to leave him where he was.
 
greatunclekip said:
Agree 100 percent. I honestly think it would make a huge difference.
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Isn't Short L1/2 savvy? He has worked within L1 for a number of years now as well as being head of recruitment at Derby. He was no 2 under Robinson. Surely he should be stepping up and using this experience to support Des, maybe he is, I just don't understand why his experience is never mentioned in the conversation.
 
When Manning came in it was vital in my mind that he bring an assistant to back him up and shut the old guard out. Otherwise it’s very Us v Him by default and the manager has got to win the coaches over as well as the players. A united front was Manning’s biggest weapon initially, and then when he brought in Krauss and Price in the summer while slitting a few throats it was a message that he was in charge. It gets people on board and if they don’t fancy it then they’re out the door. Whether people like the way he did things or not is another matter - he was the boss and he got on with building the environment he needed.

The problem is that this time, the situation handed the new manager none of the power. Everyone felt so indebted to the likes of Short in particular for digging in and getting us through that Orient game that he’s untouchable. Not in terms of being removed as nobody has suggested they’d want to sack him, but he’s on a bit of a pedestal. Buckingham came in with no buffer and no support, and you could see early doors that he felt almost subservient to Short, who was more visible and spent more time in the technical area in those first few games. He very much came across as the senior partner.

The failure to get Buckingham’s own assistant manager in was lethal as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve seen some false accounts of what happened on that front. He did want one, we did make offers, and at least one candidate did turn the role down because we made them a shoddy offer. Hackett is already ‘in’ with the rest as an existing club employee, so all they’ve done is parachute a guy in from India with no clout and then waste nearly two months of his focus and energy to promote someone. He’s got to impress absolutely everybody, and people probably realise that because nothing has been built around him, he’s easily removed. There’s a message being put out to everybody that he’s just one guy, rather than the guy. People can point at Goodwin et al as a sign that Buckingham has been backed, but those signings are for the benefit of the club. The board hasn’t invested in the manager at all since he arrived. Which is crazy given the money they spent on buying him out. I can’t figure out why they’ve done that just to do what they’ve done between the assistant, the analyst and now the Head of Performance.

It’s a fundamental failure of structural management and psychology that ultimately comes from Williams, presumably with Ferguson’s blessing. If you’re going to bring one man in on their own, they need to be the right personality type to wrestle that situation into shape. Otherwise you need to put a basic support network in place from the off to enable them to thrive. It’s a situation that, not for the the first time, points back to Tim Williams and his lack of experience in being anything more than a senior accountant having a go at playing Football Manager.

I don’t think Buckingham himself would argue that he hasn’t made mistakes, but he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
When Manning came in it was vital in my mind that he bring an assistant to back him up and shut the old guard out. Otherwise it’s very Us v Him by default and the manager has got to win the coaches over as well as the players. A united front was Manning’s biggest weapon initially, and then when he brought in Krauss and Price in the summer while slitting a few throats it was a message that he was in charge. It gets people on board and if they don’t fancy it then they’re out the door. Whether people like the way he did things or not is another matter - he was the boss and he got on with building the environment he needed.

The problem is that this time, the situation handed the new manager none of the power. Everyone felt so indebted to the likes of Short in particular for digging in and getting us through that Orient game that he’s untouchable. Not in terms of being removed as nobody has suggested they’d want to sack him, but he’s on a bit of a pedestal. Buckingham came in with no buffer and no support, and you could see early doors that he felt almost subservient to Short, who was more visible and spent more time in the technical area in those first few games. He very much came across as the senior partner.

The failure to get Buckingham’s own assistant manager in was lethal as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve seen some false accounts of what happened on that front. He did want one, we did make offers, and at least one candidate did turn the role down because we made them a shoddy offer. Hackett is already ‘in’ with the rest as an existing club employee, so all they’ve done is parachute a guy in from India with no clout and then waste nearly two months of his focus and energy to promote someone. He’s got to impress absolutely everybody, and people probably realise that because nothing has been built around him, he’s easily removed. There’s a message being put out to everybody that he’s just one guy, rather than the guy. People can point at Goodwin et al as a sign that Buckingham has been backed, but those signings are for the benefit of the club. The board hasn’t invested in the manager at all since he arrived. Which is crazy given the money they spent on buying him out. I can’t figure out why they’ve done that just to do what they’ve done between the assistant, the analyst and now the Head of Performance.

It’s a fundamental failure of structural management and psychology that ultimately comes from Williams, presumably with Ferguson’s blessing. If you’re going to bring one man in on their own, they need to be the right personality type to wrestle that situation into shape. Otherwise you need to put a basic support network in place from the off to enable them to thrive. It’s a situation that, not for the the first time, points back to Tim Williams and his lack of experience in being anything more than a senior accountant having a go at playing Football Manager.

I don’t think Buckingham himself would argue that he hasn’t made mistakes, but he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand.
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I wish I could like a post more than once...
 
Swaby39 said:
That’s probably more expensive than we’re prepared to go, but that shouldn’t mean we just give up and hand it out to anyone with a tracksuit which is essentially what we’ve done. Players will look at that and wonder where on Earth the standards are.

If they made no difference, the elite coaches in the world wouldn’t have one. It’s staggering to think what we’ve invested in the potential of a manager and then have him operate at 30-40% capacity. He should still do better but everything about this partnership is wrong.

Could’ve had John Eustace/Gary Rowett arrive with an entourage day one who would’ve handled this idea of working in silos. That was the appointment best suited to the job description. It would’ve been kinder to Des to leave him where he was.
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Couldn’t agree more
Happy to splash £400k on a striker but not put any effort into getting a proper asst mgr.

For me this is most stupid move the club is making.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
When Manning came in it was vital in my mind that he bring an assistant to back him up and shut the old guard out. Otherwise it’s very Us v Him by default and the manager has got to win the coaches over as well as the players. A united front was Manning’s biggest weapon initially, and then when he brought in Krauss and Price in the summer while slitting a few throats it was a message that he was in charge. It gets people on board and if they don’t fancy it then they’re out the door. Whether people like the way he did things or not is another matter - he was the boss and he got on with building the environment he needed.

The problem is that this time, the situation handed the new manager none of the power. Everyone felt so indebted to the likes of Short in particular for digging in and getting us through that Orient game that he’s untouchable. Not in terms of being removed as nobody has suggested they’d want to sack him, but he’s on a bit of a pedestal. Buckingham came in with no buffer and no support, and you could see early doors that he felt almost subservient to Short, who was more visible and spent more time in the technical area in those first few games. He very much came across as the senior partner.

The failure to get Buckingham’s own assistant manager in was lethal as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve seen some false accounts of what happened on that front. He did want one, we did make offers, and at least one candidate did turn the role down because we made them a shoddy offer. Hackett is already ‘in’ with the rest as an existing club employee, so all they’ve done is parachute a guy in from India with no clout and then waste nearly two months of his focus and energy to promote someone. He’s got to impress absolutely everybody, and people probably realise that because nothing has been built around him, he’s easily removed. There’s a message being put out to everybody that he’s just one guy, rather than the guy. People can point at Goodwin et al as a sign that Buckingham has been backed, but those signings are for the benefit of the club. The board hasn’t invested in the manager at all since he arrived. Which is crazy given the money they spent on buying him out. I can’t figure out why they’ve done that just to do what they’ve done between the assistant, the analyst and now the Head of Performance.

It’s a fundamental failure of structural management and psychology that ultimately comes from Williams, presumably with Ferguson’s blessing. If you’re going to bring one man in on their own, they need to be the right personality type to wrestle that situation into shape. Otherwise you need to put a basic support network in place from the off to enable them to thrive. It’s a situation that, not for the the first time, points back to Tim Williams and his lack of experience in being anything more than a senior accountant having a go at playing Football Manager.

I don’t think Buckingham himself would argue that he hasn’t made mistakes, but he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand.
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Snatch the microphone off Rhoades-Brown before the next home game, read this post out, then turn to the directors box and call Tim Williams out like The Rock in his heyday.

 
RyanioBirdio said:
When Manning came in it was vital in my mind that he bring an assistant to back him up and shut the old guard out. Otherwise it’s very Us v Him by default and the manager has got to win the coaches over as well as the players. A united front was Manning’s biggest weapon initially, and then when he brought in Krauss and Price in the summer while slitting a few throats it was a message that he was in charge. It gets people on board and if they don’t fancy it then they’re out the door. Whether people like the way he did things or not is another matter - he was the boss and he got on with building the environment he needed.

The problem is that this time, the situation handed the new manager none of the power. Everyone felt so indebted to the likes of Short in particular for digging in and getting us through that Orient game that he’s untouchable. Not in terms of being removed as nobody has suggested they’d want to sack him, but he’s on a bit of a pedestal. Buckingham came in with no buffer and no support, and you could see early doors that he felt almost subservient to Short, who was more visible and spent more time in the technical area in those first few games. He very much came across as the senior partner.

The failure to get Buckingham’s own assistant manager in was lethal as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve seen some false accounts of what happened on that front. He did want one, we did make offers, and at least one candidate did turn the role down because we made them a shoddy offer. Hackett is already ‘in’ with the rest as an existing club employee, so all they’ve done is parachute a guy in from India with no clout and then waste nearly two months of his focus and energy to promote someone. He’s got to impress absolutely everybody, and people probably realise that because nothing has been built around him, he’s easily removed. There’s a message being put out to everybody that he’s just one guy, rather than the guy. People can point at Goodwin et al as a sign that Buckingham has been backed, but those signings are for the benefit of the club. The board hasn’t invested in the manager at all since he arrived. Which is crazy given the money they spent on buying him out. I can’t figure out why they’ve done that just to do what they’ve done between the assistant, the analyst and now the Head of Performance.

It’s a fundamental failure of structural management and psychology that ultimately comes from Williams, presumably with Ferguson’s blessing. If you’re going to bring one man in on their own, they need to be the right personality type to wrestle that situation into shape. Otherwise you need to put a basic support network in place from the off to enable them to thrive. It’s a situation that, not for the the first time, points back to Tim Williams and his lack of experience in being anything more than a senior accountant having a go at playing Football Manager.

I don’t think Buckingham himself would argue that he hasn’t made mistakes, but he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand.
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If only TW treated DB in the same way he’s treating the building of his team.
 
RyanioBirdio said:
When Manning came in it was vital in my mind that he bring an assistant to back him up and shut the old guard out. Otherwise it’s very Us v Him by default and the manager has got to win the coaches over as well as the players. A united front was Manning’s biggest weapon initially, and then when he brought in Krauss and Price in the summer while slitting a few throats it was a message that he was in charge. It gets people on board and if they don’t fancy it then they’re out the door. Whether people like the way he did things or not is another matter - he was the boss and he got on with building the environment he needed.

The problem is that this time, the situation handed the new manager none of the power. Everyone felt so indebted to the likes of Short in particular for digging in and getting us through that Orient game that he’s untouchable. Not in terms of being removed as nobody has suggested they’d want to sack him, but he’s on a bit of a pedestal. Buckingham came in with no buffer and no support, and you could see early doors that he felt almost subservient to Short, who was more visible and spent more time in the technical area in those first few games. He very much came across as the senior partner.

The failure to get Buckingham’s own assistant manager in was lethal as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve seen some false accounts of what happened on that front. He did want one, we did make offers, and at least one candidate did turn the role down because we made them a shoddy offer. Hackett is already ‘in’ with the rest as an existing club employee, so all they’ve done is parachute a guy in from India with no clout and then waste nearly two months of his focus and energy to promote someone. He’s got to impress absolutely everybody, and people probably realise that because nothing has been built around him, he’s easily removed. There’s a message being put out to everybody that he’s just one guy, rather than the guy. People can point at Goodwin et al as a sign that Buckingham has been backed, but those signings are for the benefit of the club. The board hasn’t invested in the manager at all since he arrived. Which is crazy given the money they spent on buying him out. I can’t figure out why they’ve done that just to do what they’ve done between the assistant, the analyst and now the Head of Performance.

It’s a fundamental failure of structural management and psychology that ultimately comes from Williams, presumably with Ferguson’s blessing. If you’re going to bring one man in on their own, they need to be the right personality type to wrestle that situation into shape. Otherwise you need to put a basic support network in place from the off to enable them to thrive. It’s a situation that, not for the the first time, points back to Tim Williams and his lack of experience in being anything more than a senior accountant having a go at playing Football Manager.

I don’t think Buckingham himself would argue that he hasn’t made mistakes, but he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand.
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Interesting and insightful post. The bit I don't get is that you say Buckingham hasn't been backed and then say Goodwin et al was for the benefit of the club not him. Surely we are not talking about a mutually exclusive situation here. I mean the club need a striker and Buckingham needs a striker and without Buckingham being able to get the best out of him, he is of limited use to the club. Buckingham has indicated he wants to play with wingers and we bring a competent L1 winger in for a fee. So to say he hasn't been backed doesn't quite make sense. Not with standing the rest of your points of course.
 
I think it's clear two things are at play.

My worry with Des is the results and the performances, obviously he has a bad hand (but so did LM), but on the pitch I've been really depressed with how its looking. I can't work out what he is trying to do and I don't think any of our other fans can either. The performance on Saturday was so disjointed.

I strongly agree with @Marston Road yellow we need an experienced assistant manager. I know others have said this won't/can't happen but another posting said Des was "learning on our time" and that's hard for supporters to accept as we fade into mid table obscurity. I'm ok with not going up but I need to see something on the pitch to give me faith this is ever going to work out. What is a "Des Buckingham team", this question must be answered. Some fans will buy season tickets no matter what, for some people it's a major expense and they need to know they will be excited or enjoy watching us.

Reading Ryanio's post gives me the jitters that the club is in completely the wrong hands in terms of Williams & Ferguson. What can supporters do to change this and give us a fighting chance?
 
RyanioBirdio said:
When Manning came in it was vital in my mind that he bring an assistant to back him up and shut the old guard out. Otherwise it’s very Us v Him by default and the manager has got to win the coaches over as well as the players. A united front was Manning’s biggest weapon initially, and then when he brought in Krauss and Price in the summer while slitting a few throats it was a message that he was in charge. It gets people on board and if they don’t fancy it then they’re out the door. Whether people like the way he did things or not is another matter - he was the boss and he got on with building the environment he needed.

The problem is that this time, the situation handed the new manager none of the power. Everyone felt so indebted to the likes of Short in particular for digging in and getting us through that Orient game that he’s untouchable. Not in terms of being removed as nobody has suggested they’d want to sack him, but he’s on a bit of a pedestal. Buckingham came in with no buffer and no support, and you could see early doors that he felt almost subservient to Short, who was more visible and spent more time in the technical area in those first few games. He very much came across as the senior partner.

The failure to get Buckingham’s own assistant manager in was lethal as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve seen some false accounts of what happened on that front. He did want one, we did make offers, and at least one candidate did turn the role down because we made them a shoddy offer. Hackett is already ‘in’ with the rest as an existing club employee, so all they’ve done is parachute a guy in from India with no clout and then waste nearly two months of his focus and energy to promote someone. He’s got to impress absolutely everybody, and people probably realise that because nothing has been built around him, he’s easily removed. There’s a message being put out to everybody that he’s just one guy, rather than the guy. People can point at Goodwin et al as a sign that Buckingham has been backed, but those signings are for the benefit of the club. The board hasn’t invested in the manager at all since he arrived. Which is crazy given the money they spent on buying him out. I can’t figure out why they’ve done that just to do what they’ve done between the assistant, the analyst and now the Head of Performance.

It’s a fundamental failure of structural management and psychology that ultimately comes from Williams, presumably with Ferguson’s blessing. If you’re going to bring one man in on their own, they need to be the right personality type to wrestle that situation into shape. Otherwise you need to put a basic support network in place from the off to enable them to thrive. It’s a situation that, not for the the first time, points back to Tim Williams and his lack of experience in being anything more than a senior accountant having a go at playing Football Manager.

I don’t think Buckingham himself would argue that he hasn’t made mistakes, but he’s been dealt a pretty shitty hand.
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Thank you, sums everything up perfectly and you could see how the perceived "no respect" from some players might come about, we need the players and fans to really get behind him I think, I am certainly having my doubts about him but he must be given a decent crack of the whip, the board could really do with acknowledging the failings in getting him some backroom staff, it really is appalling and smacks of real amateurism.
 
SouthOxonOx said:
He started this morning. Not sure he knows what he is walking into though
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Why?
I am sure that he did his due diligence and will have an idea of what he is walking into.
A lot of people on here seem to know, so I would be pretty surprised if he doesn't !
 
Wandering Yellow said:
I think it's clear two things are at play.

My worry with Des is the results and the performances, obviously he has a bad hand (but so did LM), but on the pitch I've been really depressed with how its looking. I can't work out what he is trying to do and I don't think any of our other fans can either. The performance on Saturday was so disjointed.

I strongly agree with @Marston Road yellow we need an experienced assistant manager. I know others have said this won't/can't happen but another posting said Des was "learning on our time" and that's hard for supporters to accept as we fade into mid table obscurity. I'm ok with not going up but I need to see something on the pitch to give me faith this is ever going to work out. What is a "Des Buckingham team", this question must be answered. Some fans will buy season tickets no matter what, for some people it's a major expense and they need to know they will be excited or enjoy watching us.

Reading Ryanio's post gives me the jitters that the club is in completely the wrong hands in terms of Williams & Ferguson. What can supporters do to change this and give us a fighting chance?
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I think you are correct there are a couple of things at play but importantly, I would add that I think it's extremely likely that your second point (lack of support for Des) plays strongly into your first point (what is a Buckingham team?).

Buckingham was appointed on 16 November. Saturday was his 79th day in charge, in which time we had played 18 games, so one every 4 ½ days.

He didn't have an Assistant Manager for any of those games and it's not clear when the analyst started and how much work they've been doing as they're seeing out their time with Arsenal. If Harry Routledge has gone, then when did he leave? Who has been picking up his role since he left?

If Buckingham has been doing extra bits, including chasing up contracts to actually replace those missing staff (which is a crazy thing for a manager to have to do at any time, let alone through the Christmas fixture list) then I can understand how that would impact his ability to get his ideas over on the training ground.

Without harping on too much what I and others have said elsewhere, a much more pressing issue for me is sorting out the structure at the club. Sure, we could bring in another manager, but they would also need their own assistant and other staff. If we aspire to be the best run club (Tim's words in his Athletic interview) then we need to make sure the a**e doesn't fall out of things the moment our manager leaves and takes his mates with him.
 
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