International News Russian War With Ukraine

[Wandering Yellow]

It might not be in the headlines in a football forum, or actual daily headline news in the wider media - that's the nature of the news cycle - but the BBC have a specific 'Ukraine War' tab within the new page, the Guardian runs a daily update, as I think does The Times. Guess it depends where you get your news from.

I'm going to be a 100% honest, I do get a lot of my news from Twitter (X) I cancelled my subscriptions to the FT and Telegraph to save a bit of dough.

I wonder how important the Ukraine war is to most people. Obviously, it is relatively far away from the UK, and I understand the "don't get involved in conflicts when there's internal problems in your country" sentiment. But, if we allow Russia to take the entirety of Poland, this could 100% end up as a net-loss to people's lives.

If Russia take the whole of Ukraine, Putin has essentially "got away with it" yet again. Russia will then share a land border with Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and Moldova as well as lengthening their land border with Poland. Whilst I agree with another poster Russia wouldn't dream of going into Poland, I can 100% see Putin eventually moving in to take Moldova and Transnistria. There is a chance of a disastrous miscalculation between Russia and NATO causing devastation and that chance is increased the longer the borders (imo of course)

Doesn't the EU/UK import a significant amount of grain from Ukraine as well, I would imagine cost of living could be even more squeezed by this. It's important our countries are vigilant on this and we don't let the issue fade into the background, so I will credit the BBC if they are updating on this daily.

 

[MustardYellow]

I'm going to be a 100% honest, I do get a lot of my news from Twitter (X) I cancelled my subscriptions to the FT and Telegraph to save a bit of dough.

I wonder how important the Ukraine war is to most people. Obviously, it is relatively far away from the UK, and I understand the "don't get involved in conflicts when there's internal problems in your country" sentiment. But, if we allow Russia to take the entirety of Poland, this could 100% end up as a net-loss to people's lives.

If Russia take the whole of Ukraine, Putin has essentially "got away with it" yet again. Russia will then share a land border with Romania, Hungary, Slovakia and Moldova as well as lengthening their land border with Poland. Whilst I agree with another poster Russia wouldn't dream of going into Poland, I can 100% see Putin eventually moving in to take Moldova and Transnistria. There is a chance of a disastrous miscalculation between Russia and NATO causing devastation and that chance is increased the longer the borders (imo of course)

Doesn't the EU/UK import a significant amount of grain from Ukraine as well, I would imagine cost of living could be even more squeezed by this. It's important our countries are vigilant on this and we don't let the issue fade into the background, so I will credit the BBC if they are updating on this daily.

Probably not that important at all.

I don't think it's helped by the fact that not much really seems to be happening! I occasionally look at the 'War in Ukraine' tab on the BBC News website and the articles are normally about a small drone attack and a few information pieces. Also, as of the end of Feb 2024 Ukraine said they've lost 31,000 soldiers since the start of the attempted invasion - that's a fairly small death toll for over 2 years of war.

 

[Big Ron]

Probably not that important at all.

I don't think it's helped by the fact that not much really seems to be happening! I occasionally look at the 'War in Ukraine' tab on the BBC News website and the articles are normally about a small drone attack and a few information pieces. Also, as of the end of Feb 2024 Ukraine said they've lost 31,000 soldiers since the start of the attempted invasion - that's a fairly small death toll for over 2 years of war.

I think you're right in that what's going on isn't important to a lot of people, particularly isolationists like you. I actually had to read this post more than once to see if you were being serious.

You don't have to dig to deeply to vehemently disagree with your comment that 'not much really seems to be happening'. The Russians have seemingly militarily 'restocked' and are pushing again on a number of fronts; they are calling up another 150,000 soldiers; they've been using cheap labour brought in from mostly Asian countries to bolster military numbers; the Ukraine has wiped out a third of the Russian black sea fleet; Ukrainian civil infrastructure is attacked everyday; Trump acolytes are trying to halt US military support - no, I don't suppose that is much when you think about it.

As for 31,000 dead soldiers being a 'fairly small death toll', I suspect those numbers are massaged for PR purposes, much as the Russian numbers are - what about the short and long term injured, the civilian deaths, PTSD, battle fatigue, as well as the huge numbers of children taken into Russia and a generation of kids who are refugees and may never return.

I have a particular interest here as we have had two lots of Ukrainian guests and we keep an eye out for them and what is happening at home but yours is a shitty, ill-informed post.

 

[MustardYellow]

I think you're right in that what's going on isn't important to a lot of people, particularly isolationists like you. I actually had to read this post more than once to see if you were being serious.

You don't have to dig to deeply to vehemently disagree with your comment that 'not much really seems to be happening'. The Russians have seemingly militarily 'restocked' and are pushing again on a number of fronts; they are calling up another 150,000 soldiers; they've been using cheap labour brought in from mostly Asian countries to bolster military numbers; the Ukraine has wiped out a third of the Russian black sea fleet; Ukrainian civil infrastructure is attacked everyday; Trump acolytes are trying to halt US military support - no, I don't suppose that is much when you think about it.

As for 31,000 dead soldiers being a 'fairly small death toll', I suspect those numbers are massaged for PR purposes, much as the Russian numbers are - what about the short and long term injured, the civilian deaths, PTSD, battle fatigue, as well as the huge numbers of children taken into Russia and a generation of kids who are refugees and may never return.

I have a particular interest here as we have had two lots of Ukrainian guests and we keep an eye out for them and what is happening at home but yours is a shitty, ill-informed post.

By 'not much is happening', I mean in terms of actual military gains. The below is taken from a BBC article published at the end of Feb 2024:



Almost no ground has been gained by the Russians in 15 months.

And would you not say that considering 2 countries with combined populations of over 182million are at a full scale war, a death toll in the 10's of thousands on each side after over 2 years of said war is proportionately low? Obviously they may be under-reporting as you say, but we can only go on what we're being told when we can't collate the figures ourselves (not literally us, our government lol).

Didn't mean to come across as 'shitty', just making the point that it's not a war where every couple of days or weeks there's big news that Russia have taken 'X' city, or Ukraine have regained 'X' amount of ground to keep people's interest. The war is just sort of trundling along in the background with neither side gaining any significant ground for over 15 months (or at least significant enough to make news).

 

[RussianYellow]

By 'not much is happening', I mean in terms of actual military gains. The below is taken from a BBC article published at the end of Feb 2024:

View attachment 18661

Almost no ground has been gained by the Russians in 15 months.

And would you not say that considering 2 countries with combined populations of over 182million are at a full scale war, a death toll in the 10's of thousands on each side after over 2 years of said war is proportionately low? Obviously they may be under-reporting as you say, but we can only go on what we're being told when we can't collate the figures ourselves (not literally us, our government lol).

Didn't mean to come across as 'shitty', just making the point that it's not a war where every couple of days or weeks there's big news that Russia have taken 'X' city, or Ukraine have regained 'X' amount of ground to keep people's interest. The war is just sort of trundling along in the background with neither side gaining any significant ground for over 15 months (or at least significant enough to make news).

The death of absolutely any person is terrible news, even if not globally for the whole world. In my city, 10 people were injured just yesterday. About 50 have already died since the beginning of the year. An even greater scale of tragedy is occurring in Ukraine, which is bombarded with rockets every day. And one can only guess how many soldiers have already died senselessly on the battlefield.

It is especially sad to realize that so far the conflict has spread only to the Donetsk region, fewer people died there in a year than in my city in two weeks.

Naturally, I am now speaking from my information bubble, but people who are close to the war are offended to read that “nothing significant has happened” in it for 15 months.

In the end, Great Britain will also have to bear its share of responsibility for all these events.

 

[Malc]

I wonder how important the Ukraine war is to most people. Obviously, it is relatively far away from the UK, and I understand the "don't get involved in conflicts when there's internal problems in your country" sentiment. But, if we allow Russia to take the entirety of Poland, this could 100% end up as a net-loss to people's lives.

Very important to me! One of my 4 grandchildren has a Ukrenian mother from Odessa. They are both safe in Amsterdam and her mother and sister fled Odessa as soon as the war started. They arrived in Amsterdam about 2 weeks later.
The amount of news on UK and Dutch tv is minimal, so we get most of our news from You Tube.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

@RussianYellow The loss of lives, on both sides, is tragic. I think most people in the UK feel no ill-will at all to Russian people, your president does not define your people. Like every sane-minded person, I pray for peace. One day, I hope you can come and watch Oxford United and I can buy you a beer.

I don't think @MustardYellow was deliberately meaning to be rude, I think he was just pointing out the war is somewhat out of the news cycle here in the UK.

Anyhow, my knowledge is limited, but I believe the static nature of this war could end soon due to
A) The weather will get warmer, the icy conditions makes military pushes easier.
B) If funding dries up for Ukraine, Russia will surely make a big push

@MustardYellow you are correct about big advancements not happening, but if you watch "enemy in the woods" you will see death and fighting is a daily thing. WW1 in the western front was largely static between 1915-1917 but there was enormous battles on an unprecedented scale. I know you meant no malice with what you said though, I mix up my words a lot on here and it can come across worse than you mean.

@Big Ron If you have accepted Ukrainians into your house you have my respect. That is an extremely selfless act.

I cannot really see a pathway to peace at the moment. Unless the American election leads to some renewed talks, if Putin is secretly fed up with his "special military operation" (seems unlikely).

It feels unbelievable, that after the lessons of history in Europe, war is back in the continent. How many times do we have to learn the same lesson?

 

[MustardYellow]

The death of absolutely any person is terrible news, even if not globally for the whole world. In my city, 10 people were injured just yesterday. About 50 have already died since the beginning of the year. An even greater scale of tragedy is occurring in Ukraine, which is bombarded with rockets every day. And one can only guess how many soldiers have already died senselessly on the battlefield.

It is especially sad to realize that so far the conflict has spread only to the Donetsk region, fewer people died there in a year than in my city in two weeks.

Naturally, I am now speaking from my information bubble, but people who are close to the war are offended to read that “nothing significant has happened” in it for 15 months.

In the end, Great Britain will also have to bear its share of responsibility for all these events.

I'm talking about events that are newsworthy internationally.

Unfortunately it's a war, and unfortunately people die. Because of that, 5 or 10 people dying here and there doesn't make the headlines. If it did the news would be nothing but war death reports!

I'm not trying to minimise the deaths of individuals, of course it's horrible, I'm just coming at it from the perspective of international news and what is/isn't reported and how that effects the publics interest/knowledge of what's happening. As I say, if Russia were taking cities or Ukraine were regaining huge ground then that would make the news and peak people's interests, but that isn't really what's happening - there hasn't been much movement in months.

One thing I find very odd though is the difference in how the Israel/Hamas war is reported compared to Russia/Ukraine. All we've heard about the last couple of days is the outrage over 7 aid workers being amongst the dead in Gaza. I don't remember this for the 11+ aid workers killed in Ukraine, or the nearly 40 taken hostage and abused by Russia?

Look at what comes up when I google for information about aid workers in Ukraine... most of the results are nothing to do with Ukraine or Russia, but Gaza instead.

Very strange indeed...

 

[QR]

I'm talking about events that are newsworthy internationally.

Unfortunately it's a war, and unfortunately people die. Because of that, 5 or 10 people dying here and there doesn't make the headlines. If it did the news would be nothing but war death reports!

I'm not trying to minimise the deaths of individuals, of course it's horrible, I'm just coming at it from the perspective of international news and what is/isn't reported and how that effects the publics interest/knowledge of what's happening. As I say, if Russia were taking cities or Ukraine were regaining huge ground then that would make the news and peak people's interests, but that isn't really what's happening - there hasn't been much movement in months.

One thing I find very odd though is the difference in how the Israel/Hamas war is reported compared to Russia/Ukraine. All we've heard about the last couple of days is the outrage over 7 aid workers being amongst the dead in Gaza. I don't remember this for the 11+ aid workers killed in Ukraine, or the nearly 40 taken hostage and abused by Russia?

Look at what comes up when I google for information about aid workers in Ukraine... most of the results are nothing to do with Ukraine or Russia, but Gaza instead.

Very strange indeed...

View attachment 18671

You make a good point about the shift in the international perspective and reporting on the Ukraine/Russian war however you then say 'I'm not trying to minimise the deaths of individuals' but then go on to describe the targeting of three aid workers cars, marked with its charity's logo, that had been given clearance by the Israeli security forces as '7 aid workers being amongst the dead in Gaza'. You have to go a long way to find a more egregious example of minimising death.

 

[MustardYellow]

You make a good point about the shift in the international perspective and reporting on the Ukraine/Russian war however you then say 'I'm not trying to minimise the deaths of individuals' but then go on to describe the targeting of three aid workers cars, marked with its charity's logo, that had been given clearance by the Israeli security forces as '7 aid workers being amongst the dead in Gaza'. You have to go a long way to find a more egregious example of minimising death.

Isn't it just a fact? They are amongst the dead in the context of a conflict?

 

[QR]

Isn't it just a fact? They are amongst the dead in the context of a conflict?

How can you miss the point you're trying to make (ie minimising deaths) by such a distance???

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I find myself agreeing with QR, hell might be about to freeze over!

@RussianYellow sorry to ask yet another question, never feel any pressure to answer, but to what extent is politics discussed amongst friends in Russia?

Do most people either keep their thoughts private or think discussing things is pointless in a dictatorship?

 

[MustardYellow]

How can you miss the point you're trying to make (ie minimising deaths) by such a distance???

I'm not minimising deaths by saying someone is 'amongst the dead' in the context of a conflict.

 

[QR]

I'm not minimising deaths by saying someone is 'amongst the dead' in the context of a conflict.

'Amongst the dead' implies 'collateral damage' (horrible term) as a result of an assault on terrorists. That was not the case. Their three cars were targeted.

 

[MustardYellow]

'Amongst the dead' implies 'collateral damage' (horrible term) as a result of an assault on terrorists. That was not the case. Their three cars were targeted.

Amongst the dead doesn't refer to the means or circumstances of death, it just refers to the fact they were among a number of people to die.

That's the meaning behind my use of it anyway!

 

[RussianYellow]

I find myself agreeing with QR, hell might be about to freeze over!

@RussianYellow sorry to ask yet another question, never feel any pressure to answer, but to what extent is politics discussed amongst friends in Russia?

Do most people either keep their thoughts private or think discussing things is pointless in a dictatorship?

Unfortunately, over the years of its influence, propaganda has been able to convince citizens that they should either support the current government, or at least consider that there is no point for an ordinary person to try to understand “these complex processes.”

For those who do not agree with this order, various repressive laws have been prepared, which were especially strengthened with the outbreak of the war. Those who disagree ultimately have to either remain silent, leave the country, or accept imprisonment.

At the moment, it is especially difficult for me to find like-minded people around me, because I live in a city located 40 km from the border with Ukraine, so it is periodically shelled, and it is easier for the local authorities to sell people the idea that they are threatened by a dangerous enemy in the person of not only the Ukrainian armies, but Western countries.

The result is two Russian publics who disagree with the Putin regime. Some left the country to continue to speak and think freely, while others stayed to remain silent and wait for better times. It looks like two ice floes moving further and further apart. My girlfriend is trying to jump from one to another, living either in Lithuania or with me, but I am very afraid that at some point the distance for the next “jump” will become insurmountable, and we will get stuck on one of them. It’s much worse if it’s on different ones.

 

[Scotchegg]

I'm talking about events that are newsworthy internationally.

Unfortunately it's a war, and unfortunately people die. Because of that, 5 or 10 people dying here and there doesn't make the headlines. If it did the news would be nothing but war death reports!

I'm not trying to minimise the deaths of individuals, of course it's horrible, I'm just coming at it from the perspective of international news and what is/isn't reported and how that effects the publics interest/knowledge of what's happening. As I say, if Russia were taking cities or Ukraine were regaining huge ground then that would make the news and peak people's interests, but that isn't really what's happening - there hasn't been much movement in months.

One thing I find very odd though is the difference in how the Israel/Hamas war is reported compared to Russia/Ukraine. All we've heard about the last couple of days is the outrage over 7 aid workers being amongst the dead in Gaza. I don't remember this for the 11+ aid workers killed in Ukraine, or the nearly 40 taken hostage and abused by Russia?

Look at what comes up when I google for information about aid workers in Ukraine... most of the results are nothing to do with Ukraine or Russia, but Gaza instead.

Very strange indeed...

View attachment 18671

Over 200 aid workers have been killed in Gaza in the last 6 months, along with proportionately greater numbers of journalists and civilian women and children than in any modern war. In addition an entire state is being starved to death whilst the world looks on and arms the aggressor.

It has taken the murder of 7 international aid workers to finally get the world to see what is being done in Palestine, and that is rightly getting the 'clicks' on Google search engine which push news stories.

But that's not to say that events in Ukraine are ignored or downplayed. You simply need to look beyond Twitter and Google and their algorithms based on clicks and hashtags.

 

[MustardYellow]

Over 200 aid workers have been killed in Gaza in the last 6 months, along with proportionately greater numbers of journalists and civilian women and children than in any modern war. In addition an entire state is being starved to death whilst the world looks on and arms the aggressor.

It has taken the murder of 7 international aid workers to finally get the world to see what is being done in Palestine, and that is rightly getting the 'clicks' on Google search engine which push news stories.

But that's not to say that events in Ukraine are ignored or downplayed. You simply need to look beyond Twitter and Google and their algorithms based on clicks and hashtags.

It is a different 'type' of war. The area it's taking place in is far, far smaller than the Ukraine/Russia conflict thus making collateral damage naturally more likely. Not to mention Hamas are renowned for hiding/posing amongst civilians, making residential areas, schools etc legally legitimate military targets.

My point was I didn't mention Israel or Gaza. I specifically asked for results and information about Ukraine.

 

[Scotchegg]

It is a different 'type' of war. The area it's taking place in is far, far smaller than the Ukraine/Russia conflict thus making collateral damage naturally more likely. Not to mention Hamas are renowned for hiding/posing amongst civilians, making residential areas, schools etc legally legitimate military targets.

My point was I didn't mention Israel or Gaza. I specifically asked for results and information about Ukraine.

But that's Google for you. It's a search engine and will give the highest number of hits around the wording you've used. A search of "aid workers killed on conflict in Ukraine" will look for all relevant articles with some or all of the wording used. A day after one of the biggest news stories of the year will always reflect that over stories that haven't registered recent outrage.

As for your views on legitimate targets in Gaza and your dismissive view of thousands of dead women, children, aid workers and journalists, and the starvation of an entire state as "collateral damage"? You're exceptionally naive.

 

[Big Ron]

As for your views on legitimate targets in Gaza and your dismissive view of thousands of dead women, children, aid workers and journalists, and the starvation of an entire state as "collateral damage"? You're exceptionally naive.

I think you can add to that, as consistently shown in this thread, lacking in empathy and compassion.