EPL Ivan Toney

Grumpy Git said:
I expect there to be a rule change around moving the ball and foam. He was obvpiously trying to gain an advantage.This is something VAR should have reported to the ref, or aren’t they allowed to?
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Someone cheated. They cheated in a manner which directly and materially affected the result of the game. This act of cheating was caught on camera and seen by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people. Nothing will be done about it.

I even heard somebody (superbly!) trying to blame the Forest defence for it. (Should have seen it, should have told the referee etc)
 
m said:
Someone cheated. They cheated in a manner which directly and materially affected the result of the game. This act of cheating was caught on camera and seen by hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people. Nothing will be done about it.

I even heard somebody (superbly!) trying to blame the Forest defence for it. (Should have seen it, should have told the referee etc)
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Why is it that when a defender does something against the rules - e.g deliberate fouls, 'taking one for team' - it's seen as acceptable, or even congratulated, yet when an attacking player does something to gain an advantage, it's outright cheating?

Ivan Toney moving the ball half a yard at a free-kick is hardly crime of the century.
 
smiler106 said:
Why is it that when a defender does something against the rules - e.g deliberate fouls, 'taking one for team' - it's seen as acceptable, or even congratulated, yet when an attacking player does something to gain an advantage, it's outright cheating?

Ivan Toney moving the ball half a yard at a free-kick is hardly crime of the century.
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Correct not the crime of the century, but moving the ball from to the right of the area marked with foam by the referee, then moving the foam to the right of the ball, then moving the ball to the right again after the Forest defence had been set by their keeper, just isn’t cricket!
 
m said:
I even heard somebody (superbly!) trying to blame the Forest defence for it. (Should have seen it, should have told the referee etc)
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While Toney cheated I have to say if we conceded a goal like that then I'd be fuming at our wall. The ref wasn't going to pull him up on it on his own so you have to react to it. Not excusing Toney doing it but you can't let him get away with it then throw your hands in the air after the event and complain about it. Tell the ref, move it back, move the wall half a foot to the side to cover it. I can only think no one noticed which isn't a great look either.
 
smiler106 said:
Why is it that when a defender does something against the rules - e.g deliberate fouls, 'taking one for team' - it's seen as acceptable, or even congratulated, yet when an attacking player does something to gain an advantage, it's outright cheating?

Ivan Toney moving the ball half a yard at a free-kick is hardly crime of the century.
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Well you can't take one for the team without being caught and punished for a start!
 
If anyone is after a good betting tip, I've got a good feeling about one game in League Two being goalless tomorrow night.

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Grumpy Git said:
Correct not the crime of the century, but moving the ball from to the right of the area marked with foam by the referee, then moving the foam to the right of the ball, then moving the ball to the right again after the Forest defence had been set by their keeper, just isn’t cricket!
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I'm sure all the teams will be trying this as of next weekend 🙄
 
smiler106 said:
Why is it that when a defender does something against the rules - e.g deliberate fouls, 'taking one for team' - it's seen as acceptable, or even congratulated, yet when an attacking player does something to gain an advantage, it's outright cheating?

Ivan Toney moving the ball half a yard at a free-kick is hardly crime of the century.
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Because tactical fouls have a consequence - you commit a tactical foul so the opposition gets a free kick/penalty and you potentially get booked/sent off. It's essentially a 'trade off' - as the defending team you prevent a potentially dangerous scenario, and as the attacking team you get the foul and the potential for the defender to be booked. That's why they're referred to as 'tactical'.

What Toney did was not only against the rules, but had no consequence or 'trade off' - it was just plain and simple cheating.
 
I guess I'm the only one that liked what he done and wouldn't consider it cheating.

Agree with the point about trade-offs for breaking the rules. Suarez took the same decision I would have made when he tipped the ball over the bar in the World Cup against Ghana, getting a red card was worth it because there was a chance the resulting penalty would be missed. I never understood the criticism he got for doing it, in my eyes it's the same as the 6 pulling an opposing player back on the halfway line when they're on the break in a 4vs2.
 
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Whingit said:
I guess I'm the only one that liked what he done and wouldn't consider it cheating.

Agree with the point about trade-offs for breaking the rules. Suarez took the same decision I would have made when he tipped the ball over the bar in the World Cup against Ghana, getting a red card was worth it because there was a chance the resulting penalty would be missed. I never understood the criticism he got for doing it, in my eyes it's the same as the 6 pulling an opposing player back on the halfway line when they're on the break in a 4vs2.
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There was a punishment there though, he was sent off, gave away a penalty, missed the rest of that match and the next one in the tournament. For Toney, there is no punishment it appears.
 
Wallop said:
There was a punishment there though, he was sent off, gave away a penalty, missed the rest of that match and the next one in the tournament. For Toney, there is no punishment it appears.
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Rightly so. The only thing that should have happened is that one of the 4 or 5 officials in the stadium should have noticed and told him to move it back. They didn't and life moves on. The alternative is that VAR polices the whole game, which would be even more awful than it is now.
 
Whingit said:
I guess I'm the only one that liked what he done and wouldn't consider it cheating.

Agree with the point about trade-offs for breaking the rules. Suarez took the same decision I would have made when he tipped the ball over the bar in the World Cup against Ghana, getting a red card was worth it because there was a chance the resulting penalty would be missed. I never understood the criticism he got for doing it, in my eyes it's the same as the 6 pulling an opposing player back on the halfway line when they're on the break in a 4vs2.
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I didn’t dislike it either tbh. His attention to detail, taking time to move the foam to cover his actions, should be appreciated. He bent the rules to his advantage. I don’t think the Forest defenders even noticed. In fact, if they did notice, and didn’t either adjust the wall, nor point it out to the ref (who also hadn’t noticed) then they got what they deserved.
 
andystroud said:
I didn’t dislike it either tbh. His attention to detail, taking time to move the foam to cover his actions, should be appreciated. He bent the rules to his advantage. I don’t think the Forest defenders even noticed. In fact, if they did notice, and didn’t either adjust the wall, nor point it out to the ref (who also hadn’t noticed) then they got what they deserved.
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I agree. Type of cheekiness that gets applauded if it’s Kevin De Bruyne but aired as a criminal act for someone hot off the back of a betting ban? Hmm.
 
andystroud said:
I didn’t dislike it either tbh. His attention to detail, taking time to move the foam to cover his actions, should be appreciated. He bent the rules to his advantage. I don’t think the Forest defenders even noticed. In fact, if they did notice, and didn’t either adjust the wall, nor point it out to the ref (who also hadn’t noticed) then they got what they deserved.
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If you watch the clip, none of the Forest defenders in the wall are paying him any attention whatsoever - they're all talking to the goalie, watching where the other Brentford players are etc. etc.

In my view, it's the same as the shirt pull or dig in the ribs when you're blindside of the ref. It's not legal, but its minor and if none of the officials see it, then you get away with it. It's cheating, but it's mild.....and it's only generating this big furore because it's a bit of a new one for everyone.

He won't get away with it next time because everybody will be watching!
 
The only question I have is................. how did he move the spray? I would have thought it starts vanishing/dissolving as soon as its on the grass? 🤷‍♂️
 
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Just wondered how this differs from diving to get a penalty, or a deliberate handball?
It’s all cheating to gain an advantage and if it’s not picked up by the ref or VAR then so be it. It should however be at least a yellow if it is seen by the officials. It also needs the FA to come out with a statement to that effect.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
Just wondered how this differs from diving to get a penalty, or a deliberate handball?
It’s all cheating to gain an advantage and if it’s not picked up by the ref or VAR then so be it. It should however be at least a yellow if it is seen by the officials. It also needs the FA to come out with a statement to that effect.
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Yeah, it seems odd to me that people are claiming it's not cheating. As you say, what he did is almost the definition of cheating.
 
Cheating? i'm not sure. Gamesmanship? most definitely. The person IMO who could of dealt with it better was the Forest keeper. He should of been aware and adjusted his wall to match what Toney did.
 
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