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It’s called fundamentalism but it’s just hate. They call themselves Christian and they are not. If they were they would actually understand that “above all of these is love”.
 
chuckbert said:
Nevertheless we’ve had a couple of thousand years of violence associated with Christianity: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence
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If you kill someone in the name of something does that make the thing bad or the person doing the killing bad?
Leaders will use whatever they can to make People do their bidding, and a threat or reward that is in most religions was highlighted and used as the stick/carrot.

Your reward will be in heaven kind of thing.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
If you kill someone in the name of something does that make the thing bad or the person doing the killing bad?
Leaders will use whatever they can to make People do their bidding, and a threat or reward that is in most religions was highlighted and used as the stick/carrot.

Your reward will be in heaven kind of thing.
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People are often capable of blaming islam rather than the individual.
 
Religion - spreading love, caring, hatred & death for millennia.

Load of sky fairy bollox - be more Buddhist/Humanist.
 
Essexyellows said:
Religion - spreading love, caring, hatred & death for millennia.

Load of sky fairy bollox - be more Buddhist/Humanist.
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Christianity hasn’t done this. People have. An ideology is nothing without action. Calling it all Gods / Christian’s fault is such a cop out.

Going for the school boy “your belief is a poo poo face” or sky Fairy really doesn’t actually help. Demonising the religion causes fear for those that genuinely believe it and live by the true meaning of it into thinking that their faith could be the next one to be slaughtered, like the Uyghurs or the Jews.

No decent person of faith has ever led anyone to kill on the basis of love.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
Christianity hasn’t done this. People have. An ideology is nothing without action. Calling it all Gods / Christian’s fault is such a cop out.

Going for the school boy “your belief is a poo poo face” or sky Fairy really doesn’t actually help. Demonising the religion causes fear for those that genuinely believe it and live by the true meaning of it into thinking that their faith could be the next one to be slaughtered, like the Uyghurs or the Jews.

No decent person of faith has ever led anyone to kill on the basis of love.
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It's a nice simple bit of circular logic: "if it's bad it's not christianity". Yet christianity has caused plenty of hideous misery across the world. If you consider the catholic church, anyone involved in crusading of any sort, things like maintenance the cult of poverty in India, denominational doctrines condemning millions to death from HIV, unwanted childbirth, marital violence etc you struggle to have a case that its not down to "christianity".
 
chuckbert said:
It's a nice simple bit of circular logic: "if it's bad it's not christianity". Yet christianity has caused plenty of hideous misery across the world. If you consider the catholic church, anyone involved in crusading of any sort, things like maintenance the cult of poverty in India, denominational doctrines condemning millions to death from HIV, unwanted childbirth, marital violence etc you struggle to have a case that its not down to "christianity".
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Kind of get both sides of this. I'm sure MRY is saying that in its truest form, that is not what ANY religion teaches. But it has been perverted for centuries and used as a weapon ever since there has been religion, so it has become part of the problem and the perversion has taken over the religion.

And yes, organised Religion IS responsible for for the most heinous atrocities against mankind over that time and is in part responsible for why they are still so influential to this day. pArdon the pun, but much of that killing and violence was carried out with the blessing of relgious leaders, such as the Vatican.

Quite simply, organised religions need to own that.

It's a bit like saying that the atrocities committed in the name of British Colonialism were not a true interpretation of the aims of British Colonialism. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that Britain's position in the world to this day was not founded on some pretty hideous acts carried out in the name of "civilising" the world....
 
Sheik djibouti said:
Kind of get both sides of this. I'm sure MRY is saying that in its truest form, that is not what ANY religion teaches. But it has been perverted for centuries and used as a weapon ever since there has been religion, so it has become part of the problem and the perversion has taken over the religion.

And yes, organised Religion IS responsible for for the most heinous atrocities against mankind over that time and is in part responsible for why they are still so influential to this day. pArdon the pun, but much of that killing and violence was carried out with the blessing of relgious leaders, such as the Vatican.

Quite simply, organised religions need to own that.

It's a bit like saying that the atrocities committed in the name of British Colonialism were not a true interpretation of the aims of British Colonialism. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that Britain's position in the world to this day was not founded on some pretty hideous acts carried out in the name of "civilising" the world....
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You’re right, but I always react to religions taking the high ground.
There are good people and there are arseholes. Religions don’t have a monopoly of either. Religions do need to take responsibility for their arseholes rather than use a meaningless get-out clause.
 
chuckbert said:
It's a nice simple bit of circular logic: "if it's bad it's not christianity". Yet christianity has caused plenty of hideous misery across the world. If you consider the catholic church, anyone involved in crusading of any sort, things like maintenance the cult of poverty in India, denominational doctrines condemning millions to death from HIV, unwanted childbirth, marital violence etc you struggle to have a case that its not down to "christianity".
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So all OUFC fans are thugs for throwing smoke bombs on the pitch and fighting in the terrace. There are fans that do this but not in my name as a fan and not in the clubs name.

I despise the Catholic Church and the CofE for what they are.

I really admire the Sally Army and all of those with a real passion to do what they see as Gods work and help and assist people in need whenever and however they can

As soon as you realise that the Catholic Church and the c of e has very little to do with Christianity the sooner things become a little clearer
 
Sheik djibouti said:
Kind of get both sides of this. I'm sure MRY is saying that in its truest form, that is not what ANY religion teaches. But it has been perverted for centuries and used as a weapon ever since there has been religion, so it has become part of the problem and the perversion has taken over the religion.

And yes, organised Religion IS responsible for for the most heinous atrocities against mankind over that time and is in part responsible for why they are still so influential to this day. pArdon the pun, but much of that killing and violence was carried out with the blessing of relgious leaders, such as the Vatican.

Quite simply, organised religions need to own that.

It's a bit like saying that the atrocities committed in the name of British Colonialism were not a true interpretation of the aims of British Colonialism. You'd have to be pretty naive to think that Britain's position in the world to this day was not founded on some pretty hideous acts carried out in the name of "civilising" the world....
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Communism is another good one: read Marx’s work and it is clearly not a cause of death. Wind forward to the actions of comrades stalin, mao etc and it’s a bit different.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
As soon as you realise that the Catholic Church and the c of e has very little to do with Christianity the sooner things become a little clearer
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The sooner christians accept the terrible parts of christian doctrine (not just the high churches) the better things will become. It’s all nice and sunny cherry picking the favourable bits of the old and new testaments, but both have some pretty unpleasant, coercive and narcissistic themes.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
I really admire the Sally Army and all of those with a real passion to do what they see as Gods work and help and assist people in need whenever and however they can
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I really admire medicine sans frontieres, but I put it down to them being good people, not because they’re a secular organisation. Maybe the Salvation Army do good things because they are good people, not because they are christians.
 
chuckbert said:
I really admire medicine sans frontieres, but I put it down to them being good people, not because they’re a secular organisation. Maybe the Salvation Army do good things because they are good people, not because they are christians.
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You don’t have to be a member of any faith/religion to be a good person.

Religious beliefs have a lot to answer for.
 
chuckbert said:
I really admire medicine sans frontieres, but I put it down to them being good people, not because they’re a secular organisation. Maybe the Salvation Army do good things because they are good people, not because they are christians.
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Maybe the people in the Salvation Army are there because they have been motivated by their religion and maybe the would have done good things either way….
I agree that there are good and bad in all walks of life. In churches in schools and in volunteering but to say a religion or a faith is bad because people have misused it is in my opinion wrong.
 
As far as I’m concerned religion is a choice and it’s each to their own.
 
chuckbert said:
The sooner christians accept the terrible parts of christian doctrine (not just the high churches) the better things will become. It’s all nice and sunny cherry picking the favourable bits of the old and new testaments, but both have some pretty unpleasant, coercive and narcissistic themes.
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And you caught me ready to stone my wife and kill my gay brother.
 
Marston Road yellow said:
And you caught me ready to stone my wife and kill my gay brother.
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Interesting point: I wonder if it is misuse of followers of the Abrahamic religions to kill gay people, or if it is correct use of the religion. Can I condemn those who follow that scripture, or is that blaming the religion rather than the person?
 
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