Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

The total required for top 6 isn't something we have complete control over anyway. We could end on 79 points and still lose out if the 3 dropped points were against Lincoln.
 
ECYellow said:
I don’t think it’s fair to say ‘forget the improvement’ if people are going to hang on to some of the poorer displays. We can’t have it both ways, can we?

It is undeniable that we have improved, both in results and performances. Absolutely, we’ve beaten teams that we should hope to beat in this run, but football doesn’t always work like that does it? Posh lost to Carlisle a week or two ago. No game is a gimmie and Des deserves huge credit for changing us tactically.
We look much more solid defensively and scintillating going forward at times.

10 points from the last 4, +10 GD and momentum. i wouldn’t rather be any of the chasing pack and credit to that, goes to Des and the players.
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I gave credit to the players and manager yesterday after the game had finished yesterday.

When you look at the players, and budget difference between the sides we’ve just played, then we should be romping games, especially against the last few opponents. Shrewsbury away should have been no different to Fleetwood, and Burton. They were poor, very poor! We had a lead, and as we’ve seen on more than one or two occasions, we’ve sat on a slim lead, with an occasional attack, and then got punished for it. Who’s to blame for that… no the players. The manager decides to step on the brakes, and that’s instructed to the players from the sidelines. Then when we’ve inevitably conceded a goal, all of the sudden it’s panic stations, and the players have run around like headless chickens, trying to get a winner, when it should of been a professional, let’s see out the game, and keep the three points.

There have been signs of improvement granted. I’m not judging on the last few games, but as a whole since he arrived in November, and things should be improving, albeit slower than we would have liked. The fact is though, since Des has arrived, we have not beaten anyone inside the current top 12 of Lge one. So with games coming up against clubs 4th 7th and 9th. I think it’s fair to say that he needs to show he can get results against the better teams in Lge 1. If he can do that then it really will show that he’s learning, and getting better as a manager at this level. That’s what I meant by improvement, so let’s hope we continue to perform as we have been, and then the results should come too.

Fail to finish in the top six this season imo is a failure.
 
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Leysboy said:
I gave credit to the players and manager yesterday after the game had finished yesterday.

When you look at the players, and budget difference between the sides we’ve just played, then we should be romping games, especially against the last few opponents. Shrewsbury away should have been no different to Fleetwood, and Burton. They were poor, very poor! We had a lead, and as we’ve seen on more than one or two occasions, we’ve sat on a slim lead, with an occasional attack, and then got punished for it. Who’s to blame for that… no the players. The manager decides to step on the brakes, and that’s instructed to the players from the sidelines. Then when we’ve inevitably conceded a goal, all of the sudden it’s panic stations, and the players have run around like headless chickens, trying to get a winner, when it should of been a professional, let’s see out the game, and keep the three points.

There have been signs of improvement granted. I’m not judging on the last few games, but as a whole since he arrived in November, and things should be improving, albeit slower than we would have liked. The fact is though, since Des has arrived, we have not beaten anyone inside the current top 12 of Lge one. So with games coming up against clubs 4th 7th and 9th. I think it’s fair to say that he needs to show he can get results against the better teams in Lge 1. If he can do that then it really will show that he’s learning, and getting better as a manager at this level. That’s what I meant by improvement, so let’s hope we continue to perform as we have been, and then the results should come too.

Fail to finish in the top six this season imo is a failure.
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So you don't put any blame on the players for not taking their chances or for switching off?

In that case, it is all credit to Des for the last two 4-0 wins and we don't need to give any credit to the players?
 
battman said:
I think even if we lose our last four games (not that I think we will though) Des should be given the summer to see what he can do. This means shipping out the last of the poor-value players from Karl's reign and anyone who's 'downed tools', bringing in more of his style of player and backroom staff in a full summer window, and having a whole pre-season to drill his side into his way of playing.

If we sack Des, not only will that mean there's less money around for players, but it means you lose loads of time planning for the next season. Taking weeks to appoint a new manager, deciding contracts based on a new boss who's not seen them up close, and trying to start yet another rebuild with our fourth manager in less than 18 months. I feel too many in modern football are happy to call for a manager's head without thinking about the negative knock-on implications it has for the rest of the setup.
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IF we lose our last 4 games (and I don’t think we will either) then we will likely finish somewhere between 7th-10th. Not only will that be an almighty collapse from where Liam Manning left us in second, but it will be a massive bottling of the playoffs from a pretty strong position with only four games to go. It will also mean that we’ve lost to a Stevenage side who’ve not managed a single win in their last 8 games.

It will mean that Des Buckingham has had us somewhere like 14th-16th in the table since he took over, and has overseen a worse than halving of our average PPG, despite having a January transfer window to bring in players and an almost fully fit squad to choose from for much of it.

To me, it would be almost as insane to say that Des should be given the summer and the start of next season in that scenario as it would be to say that he should still be sacked even if we win the next four games! I take your points regarding the cost implications etc, but for me if Des absolutely capitulates in the way that four straight losses would be (not even a solitary draw somewhere?) then his position would be pretty untenable. I am however not in charge and yes it’s not my money, that’s just my opinion.

(Before anyone starts crying that this is ridiculously negative, not only do I NOT think this will happen, I strongly hope that we will win every game and smash the playoffs - and I don’t think that’s impossible, either. Probably slightly more likely than losing them all if anything!)
 
IsleofWightYellow said:
IF we lose our last 4 games (and I don’t think we will either) then we will likely finish somewhere between 7th-10th. Not only will that be an almighty collapse from where Liam Manning left us in second, but it will be a massive bottling of the playoffs from a pretty strong position with only four games to go. It will also mean that we’ve lost to a Stevenage side who’ve not managed a single win in their last 8 games.

It will mean that Des Buckingham has had us somewhere like 14th-16th in the table since he took over, and has overseen a worse than halving of our average PPG, despite having a January transfer window to bring in players and an almost fully fit squad to choose from for much of it.

To me, it would be almost as insane to say that Des should be given the summer and the start of next season in that scenario as it would be to say that he should still be sacked even if we win the next four games! I take your points regarding the cost implications etc, but for me if Des absolutely capitulates in the way that four straight losses would be (not even a solitary draw somewhere?) then his position would be pretty untenable. I am however not in charge and yes it’s not my money, that’s just my opinion.

(Before anyone starts crying that this is ridiculously negative, not only do I NOT think this will happen, I strongly hope that we will win every game and smash the playoffs - and I don’t think that’s impossible, either. Probably slightly more likely than losing them all if anything!)
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It’s got to be more subtle than that and involve more judgement. I think the club should look at Des’s position before letting him spend more money but the decision should rest on an assessment of his overall performance and the perceived likelihood of a strong, purposeful performance next season. For me the jury is still out but he should be given every chance to show he can do it.
 
There’s opinions both ways re Des, in terms of results and performances since he’s been here. We can speculate about the hand he’s been dealt, and whether or not he’s got all of the dressing room and coaching staff fully behind him or not. None of us really know.

The next 4 games this season are key, and hopefully that will turn into the next 7 games. I think right now the fairest summary is to say the Jury is still out as to whether or not he’s the right person for the long term.
 
The constant moving of goalposts and bickering by the overly negative/positive posters here is incredibly jarring and makes the forum unreadable at times.

I'm very much in the 'Des in' camp, of course I am, because he came into a difficult situation from the other side of the world and was dealt an absolute shambles to walk into. I don't understand how you can judge someone with a 3 year contract just 6 months into his tenure, in any walk of life. There is absolutely no substance or basis on why you would want a change of manager, and you cannot sack someone on the back of a fan's projection that things will go wrong.

Granted, there have been times where the manager comes into question, that will come with any poor run of form. The Bolton debacle was a disgrace and something had to change (and to the manager and player's credit - it has), but was it any worse than Wigan away under Manning? For me that was the worst overall performance of the season. There's a lot of negativity in our fan base towards the manager for whatever reason, I can't think of a time where a new manager has been judged so harshly on results with a squad full of players he mainly didn't put together himself. Football fans are fickle of course and that negativity has turned into more positive thoughts recently with the good results we've been getting, but it's one loss away from turning negative again. I find it all very confusing, I mentioned after the Bolton game that there needs to be a siege mentality from the fans and team against the doubters and our board and for the most part we've got it, but it's still on a knife edge as to whether the majority want Des in/out come the end of the season.

A few things to consider;

Would we be in a similar position if Manning had stayed? I think yes, our start was positive but one where we were massively outperforming ourselves, a false position being 2nd when Des came in, but also the league doesn't start to form a true position until around February, so we can't truly judge where we'd be right now under a different coach.

Did the board stitch Des up when he first arrived? Absolutely, but the start papered over every single crack that has been evident for a very long time - it just took a bad run of form for people to notice. The charlatans running our club are not fit for purpose and even if we have some success they should not be allowed to get away with it, voices should be loud, proud and calling things out no matter the situation we are in on the pitch.

Is the squad good enough to go up? No, I really don't think so. There is still a core of players who have proved over a long enough period that they're standard L1 players, and until they are phased out then I can't see us doing much to get out of the league in an upward direction. I'd argue Long, Brown, Mcguane, Bodin, Browne, Henry, Smyth + Eastwood fall into this category. I also have a hunch that Leigh and Dale would struggle at a level above, but to their credit, both have been excellent on the whole this season. With all this being said, you would have to credit Manning + Buckingham if they got this side into the play offs and it's a vast improvement on what we saw last season. If not, then its okay and no reason to panic, rebuilds take longer than a season and I'd have full trust in Des to get players that would drive us on to being a consistently decent team at this level.

This will probably read like mumbo jumbo to most as I have a lot of points to get across and am not always the best at putting them across (its also probably why I don't have a job at the club anymore) but the fans forum is a voice for supporters and the up and down, bickering nature of it sometimes makes it quite difficult to enjoy, it shouldn't be like that, there are plenty of opinions on here I value and would love to see more of. I respect the opinions of the positivity merchants (Scotchegg, Steve Gilbert etc) but also the glass half empty types (leysboy, dick, kip, MustardYellow) however the constant one-upmanship is energy sapping and probably needs to stop. We're in a good position with an Oxford lad managing the club, with a new stadium hopefully on the horizon. That's an awful lot to be positive about.
 
WEYellow said:
The constant moving of goalposts and bickering by the overly negative/positive posters here is incredibly jarring and makes the forum unreadable at times.

I'm very much in the 'Des in' camp, of course I am, because he came into a difficult situation from the other side of the world and was dealt an absolute shambles to walk into. I don't understand how you can judge someone with a 3 year contract just 6 months into his tenure, in any walk of life. There is absolutely no substance or basis on why you would want a change of manager, and you cannot sack someone on the back of a fan's projection that things will go wrong.

Granted, there have been times where the manager comes into question, that will come with any poor run of form. The Bolton debacle was a disgrace and something had to change (and to the manager and player's credit - it has), but was it any worse than Wigan away under Manning? For me that was the worst overall performance of the season. There's a lot of negativity in our fan base towards the manager for whatever reason, I can't think of a time where a new manager has been judged so harshly on results with a squad full of players he mainly didn't put together himself. Football fans are fickle of course and that negativity has turned into more positive thoughts recently with the good results we've been getting, but it's one loss away from turning negative again. I find it all very confusing, I mentioned after the Bolton game that there needs to be a siege mentality from the fans and team against the doubters and our board and for the most part we've got it, but it's still on a knife edge as to whether the majority want Des in/out come the end of the season.

A few things to consider;

Would we be in a similar position if Manning had stayed? I think yes, our start was positive but one where we were massively outperforming ourselves, a false position being 2nd when Des came in, but also the league doesn't start to form a true position until around February, so we can't truly judge where we'd be right now under a different coach.

Did the board stitch Des up when he first arrived? Absolutely, but the start papered over every single crack that has been evident for a very long time - it just took a bad run of form for people to notice. The charlatans running our club are not fit for purpose and even if we have some success they should not be allowed to get away with it, voices should be loud, proud and calling things out no matter the situation we are in on the pitch.

Is the squad good enough to go up? No, I really don't think so. There is still a core of players who have proved over a long enough period that they're standard L1 players, and until they are phased out then I can't see us doing much to get out of the league in an upward direction. I'd argue Long, Brown, Mcguane, Bodin, Browne, Henry, Smyth + Eastwood fall into this category. I also have a hunch that Leigh and Dale would struggle at a level above, but to their credit, both have been excellent on the whole this season. With all this being said, you would have to credit Manning + Buckingham if they got this side into the play offs and it's a vast improvement on what we saw last season. If not, then its okay and no reason to panic, rebuilds take longer than a season and I'd have full trust in Des to get players that would drive us on to being a consistently decent team at this level.

This will probably read like mumbo jumbo to most as I have a lot of points to get across and am not always the best at putting them across (its also probably why I don't have a job at the club anymore) but the fans forum is a voice for supporters and the up and down, bickering nature of it sometimes makes it quite difficult to enjoy, it shouldn't be like that, there are plenty of opinions on here I value and would love to see more of. I respect the opinions of the positivity merchants (Scotchegg, Steve Gilbert etc) but also the glass half empty types (leysboy, dick, kip, MustardYellow) however the constant one-upmanship is energy sapping and probably needs to stop. We're in a good position with an Oxford lad managing the club, with a new stadium hopefully on the horizon. That's an awful lot to be positive about.
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Good post and the point I have highlighted is a key one for me.

Since the fans forum, have we had a date yet on when Tim Williams or Grant are going to be doing their 1st 15 minute fans forum on Radio Oxford?
Another 2 weeks have passed and we are still waiting to hear back from the club regarding questions that weren't able to be asked on the night.

There is now also serious concerns around the stadium and mixed messages coming from local councillors regarding the heads of terms.

If they think they can just hold 1 fans forum and then hope we all go back to being quiet and stop asking difficult questions then they are very mistaken.

It will be very interesting to how they support Des in the summer, not just in the player market but with getting a full team of staff.
 
WEYellow said:
The constant moving of goalposts and bickering by the overly negative/positive posters here is incredibly jarring and makes the forum unreadable at times.

I'm very much in the 'Des in' camp, of course I am, because he came into a difficult situation from the other side of the world and was dealt an absolute shambles to walk into. I don't understand how you can judge someone with a 3 year contract just 6 months into his tenure, in any walk of life. There is absolutely no substance or basis on why you would want a change of manager, and you cannot sack someone on the back of a fan's projection that things will go wrong.

Granted, there have been times where the manager comes into question, that will come with any poor run of form. The Bolton debacle was a disgrace and something had to change (and to the manager and player's credit - it has), but was it any worse than Wigan away under Manning? For me that was the worst overall performance of the season. There's a lot of negativity in our fan base towards the manager for whatever reason, I can't think of a time where a new manager has been judged so harshly on results with a squad full of players he mainly didn't put together himself. Football fans are fickle of course and that negativity has turned into more positive thoughts recently with the good results we've been getting, but it's one loss away from turning negative again. I find it all very confusing, I mentioned after the Bolton game that there needs to be a siege mentality from the fans and team against the doubters and our board and for the most part we've got it, but it's still on a knife edge as to whether the majority want Des in/out come the end of the season.

A few things to consider;

Would we be in a similar position if Manning had stayed? I think yes, our start was positive but one where we were massively outperforming ourselves, a false position being 2nd when Des came in, but also the league doesn't start to form a true position until around February, so we can't truly judge where we'd be right now under a different coach.

Did the board stitch Des up when he first arrived? Absolutely, but the start papered over every single crack that has been evident for a very long time - it just took a bad run of form for people to notice. The charlatans running our club are not fit for purpose and even if we have some success they should not be allowed to get away with it, voices should be loud, proud and calling things out no matter the situation we are in on the pitch.

Is the squad good enough to go up? No, I really don't think so. There is still a core of players who have proved over a long enough period that they're standard L1 players, and until they are phased out then I can't see us doing much to get out of the league in an upward direction. I'd argue Long, Brown, Mcguane, Bodin, Browne, Henry, Smyth + Eastwood fall into this category. I also have a hunch that Leigh and Dale would struggle at a level above, but to their credit, both have been excellent on the whole this season. With all this being said, you would have to credit Manning + Buckingham if they got this side into the play offs and it's a vast improvement on what we saw last season. If not, then its okay and no reason to panic, rebuilds take longer than a season and I'd have full trust in Des to get players that would drive us on to being a consistently decent team at this level.

This will probably read like mumbo jumbo to most as I have a lot of points to get across and am not always the best at putting them across (its also probably why I don't have a job at the club anymore) but the fans forum is a voice for supporters and the up and down, bickering nature of it sometimes makes it quite difficult to enjoy, it shouldn't be like that, there are plenty of opinions on here I value and would love to see more of. I respect the opinions of the positivity merchants (Scotchegg, Steve Gilbert etc) but also the glass half empty types (leysboy, dick, kip, MustardYellow) however the constant one-upmanship is energy sapping and probably needs to stop. We're in a good position with an Oxford lad managing the club, with a new stadium hopefully on the horizon. That's an awful lot to be positive about.
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I can’t agree with this.

I think we’ve constantly downplayed what a job Liam Manning did here & I feel like many continue to do so because of the way he & Hogg left.

We’d be sat snugly in the top 6 at a minimum for me had he stayed. That’s my opinion obviously but it also seems to be the opinion many other League One fans think & a lot of them think we could’ve challenged for autos.

Let’s just hope we secure the top 6 space which is massively in our hands from this point.

Last I’m gonna say on the manager until full time at Exeter which will be a major moment in his managerial career.
 
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ZeroTheHero said:
I can't help thinking that very much depends on the progress/approval of the stadium project.
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I agree to a point but that is why we could do with the club or at a minimum, OxVox, coming out and giving us an update on the HoT.
billyturleyscurlywurly said:
I can’t agree with this.

I think we’ve constantly downplayed what a job Liam Manning did here & I feel like many continue to do so because of the way he & Hogg left.

We’d be sat snugly in the top 6 at a minimum for me had he stayed. That’s my opinion obviously but it also seems to be the opinion many other League One fans think & a lot of them think we could’ve challenged for autos.

Let’s just hope we secure the top 6 space which is massively in our hands from this point.

Last I’m gonna say on the manager until full time at Exeter which will be a major moment in his managerial career.

I’m out ✌️
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Manning did well to get us in the top 2 but it was never going to be sustained, our form and performances had already started to drop off before he walked out.

Having said that, yes we may have been well and truly in the play off places at this stage had he stayed but then he wouldn't have had to put with all the staffing issues, players having to get used to a new coach/manager and it would have been a much more settled season.

As WEYellow has said, if we don't make the play offs then I would suggest Tim, Adam and Grant are more to blame than the manager.
 
Steve Gilbert said:
I agree to a point but that is why we could do with the club or at a minimum, OxVox, coming out and giving us an update on the HoT.

Manning did well to get us in the top 2 but it was never going to be sustained, our form and performances had already started to drop off before he walked out.

Having said that, yes we may have been well and truly in the play off places at this stage had he stayed but then he wouldn't have had to put with all the staffing issues, players having to get used to a new coach/manager and it would have been a much more settled season.

As WEYellow has said, if we don't make the play offs then I would suggest Tim, Adam and Grant are more to blame than the manager.
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So, if we make the play offs a pat on the back for Tim. Adam and Grant ? After all, they and their foresight, will have been responsible for choosing the man to have masterminded reaching the play offs. You can’t have it every way to suit an argument.
 
dickwalton1964 said:
So, if we make the play offs a pat on the back for Tim. Adam and Grant ? After all, they and their foresight, will have been responsible for choosing the man to have masterminded reaching the play offs. You can’t have it every way to suit an argument.
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Expected you to be a bit cranky what with your team losing at home at the moment. Ten Haag out?

Edit. Maybe you can cheer up a bit now.
 
Worth mentioning that according to the fabled xG (the death knell of Manning, remember) we 'should' have scored just 1.8 goals yesterday. In fact, the last two games combined have an xG win of just 4.22-2.53 - so with a real life 8-0 aggregate win, that's a whopping net 'over-performance' of 6.31 goals.

Curious that no-one is decrying our cheating of the system or fradulent results, as per the whole of August, September and October?

Of course, the reality is that we were ruthlessly efficient under Manning - and I'm delighted that we're now seemingly rediscovering some of that under Buckingham.

We're 'beating xG' once again - and that's a good thing. It should never have been a stick to beat Manning with. And by the same token it's something to celebrate now we're back in that game under Buckingham.

This is a good development. And we've proven to be a better side for it over the course of the season.

Just pointing out the inconsistency in response to it. Feels a little 'Good Aids / Bad Aids'... 👀
 
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