Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

[Northstandboy]

Manager Stats (Click Below)

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[Swaby39]

What was this nucleus of the squad for the long term that Manning created in the summer?

Who made the grade then?

If you disagree, say why. I cba with you trying to set traps. What happens is I give you an answer and then you vanish it's pointless.

 

[dickwalton1964]

Under Manning, it felt like everything was controlled and led from the dugout. It was an extremely rigid system, but everyone knew their role in it and hence the performances of the team were often greater than the sum of their parts. He and his management team provided all the leadership and structure and no individual player/players were entrusted to do that on the pitch and were able to play within their comfort zone.

That doesn't apparently fit with Des/City Group philosophy, where leadership on the pitch from the players and flexibility within a framework seems to be expected.

It feels like a fundamental change in they way you want a team to set up and at least goes some way to explain some of the chaotic, inexplicable and rudderless play we see.

Agree.

These very same players who looked really comfortable, overly comfortable sometimes, earlier in the season passing the ball around for fun now look a bit rabbit in deadlights on the ball - Moore, Brown etc. I do think Beadle was a massive part of that confidence to just stroke it around at the back. There isn’t the same confidence in Cumming.

 

[Scotchegg]

If you disagree, say why. I cba with you trying to set traps. What happens is I give you an answer and then you vanish as you can't argue it.

No, you make sweeping and very long statements about how incredible Manning was bit can't back them up.

This nucleus of a long term squad that you speak of.

Beadle (loan) Eastwood - neither long term.
Stevens (loan) Long - neither long term.
Leigh - only left back
Moore Brown Thorniley Negru - no strength in depth, becoming badly exposed
Brannagan McGuane McEachran Smyth - McEachran can't run, McGuane inconsistent
Rodrigues Henry Goodrham Woltman - raw, out of contract, great potential, unseen
Mills (loan) Edwards (loan) Murphy Browne - no long term plan.
Harris Perkins (loan) O'Donkor - massively short of options

Of course nothing was going to change overnight and we all spoke about needing several windows to rebuild the squad so I'm not having a go at Manning for the players we had. But equally I'm not making him out to be a footballing genius who had the nucleus of a squad for the long term which has somehow been destroyed by Buckingham.

The fact is that our squad was fragile from the off, and we would always struggle with any injuries regardless of who was in charge.

That doesn't take away from the fact that Buckingham has failed to stamp his mark on this ream or get the best out of what he has, and he's undeniably failing at this time.

But constantly painting Manning as being perfect undermines your posts.

 

[dickwalton1964]

If you disagree, say why. I cba with you trying to set traps. What happens is I give you an answer and then you vanish it's pointless.

Well said. Pathetic isn’t it.

 

[dickwalton1964]

No, you make sweeping and very long statements about how incredible Manning was bit can't back them up.

This nucleus of a long term squad that you speak of.

Beadle (loan) Eastwood - neither long term.
Stevens (loan) Long - neither long term.
Leigh - only left back
Moore Brown Thorniley Negru - no strength in depth, becoming badly exposed
Brannagan McGuane McEachran Smyth - McEachran can't run, McGuane inconsistent
Rodrigues Henry Goodrham Woltman - raw, out of contract, great potential, unseen
Mills (loan) Edwards (loan) Murphy Browne - no long term plan.
Harris Perkins (loan) O'Donkor - massively short of options

Of course nothing was going to change overnight and we all spoke about needing several windows to rebuild the squad so I'm not having a go at Manning for the players we had. But equally I'm not making him out to be a footballing genius who had the nucleus of a squad for the long term which has somehow been destroyed by Buckingham.

The fact is that our squad was fragile from the off, and we would always struggle with any injuries regardless of who was in charge.

That doesn't take away from the fact that Buckingham has failed to stamp his mark on this ream or get the best out of what he has, and he's undeniably failing at this time.

But constantly painting Manning as being perfect undermines your posts.

Leigh wasn’t the only left back at all. Brown came as a left back and started as left back. If he played left back you had two perfectly capable centre back deputies in Thorniley and Negru.

 

[QR]

No, you make sweeping and very long statements about how incredible Manning was bit can't back them up.

This nucleus of a long term squad that you speak of.

Beadle (loan) Eastwood - neither long term.
Stevens (loan) Long - neither long term.
Leigh - only left back
Moore Brown Thorniley Negru - no strength in depth, becoming badly exposed
Brannagan McGuane McEachran Smyth - McEachran can't run, McGuane inconsistent
Rodrigues Henry Goodrham Woltman - raw, out of contract, great potential, unseen
Mills (loan) Edwards (loan) Murphy Browne - no long term plan.
Harris Perkins (loan) O'Donkor - massively short of options

Of course nothing was going to change overnight and we all spoke about needing several windows to rebuild the squad so I'm not having a go at Manning for the players we had. But equally I'm not making him out to be a footballing genius who had the nucleus of a squad for the long term which has somehow been destroyed by Buckingham.

The fact is that our squad was fragile from the off, and we would always struggle with any injuries regardless of who was in charge.

That doesn't take away from the fact that Buckingham has failed to stamp his mark on this ream or get the best out of what he has, and he's undeniably failing at this time.

But constantly painting Manning as being perfect undermines your posts.

You say 'McGuane inconsistent' but that's the whole point is he wasn't under Manning. He was MotM game after game. His fall from excellent is Buckingham's problem in microcosm. He hasn't the ability to get the best out of a team at this level.

 

[38yearsofpain]

Under Manning, it felt like everything was controlled and led from the dugout. It was an extremely rigid system, but everyone knew their role in it and hence the performances of the team were often greater than the sum of their parts. He and his management team provided all the leadership and structure and no individual player/players were entrusted to do that on the pitch and were able to play within their comfort zone.

That doesn't apparently fit with Des/City Group philosophy, where leadership on the pitch from the players and flexibility within a framework seems to be expected.

It feels like a fundamental change in they way you want a team to set up and at least goes some way to explain some of the chaotic, inexplicable and rudderless play we see.

You do the Manning thing first establish belief, understanding and solidarity only then do you move on to player control. Whilst City group want player leadership and control it is very much within a framework. Move outside those parameters and your done. The sticking to the framework is ruthless and those players totally understand their roles and other players roles and trust each other to perform.
We are so far from that.

 

[battman]

Great post.

I find the talk of a squad rebuild really alarming because last summer we assembled a good nucleus of a squad for the longer term. January should have been a mid-term tuning exercise for wherever nwas lacking this season followed by the last of the major surgery in this coming summer with the expiry of some really burdensome contracts. Manning didn't (couldn't) do the whole job but oversaw a huge swing of players/staff and put some excellent foundations in place. He was ruthless with people he didn't want around where necessary and it was the wielding of he axe/shot in the arm our club really needed. He got the results to prove he was right and that what's here is far more capable than it is now showing. The very thought of another overhaul makes me shudder because we're at risk of undoing some good work that was done. I've no doubt there are some questionable characters in the squad but Manning had them in check and dismantling a once competitive squad at the hands of a so far incompetent manager is a monumental gamble. Unfortunately for Des his tenure backs on to someone who just did the same job so much better and there's no hiding place for him.

I mean bar Stevens we lost all of our loan players, and of the six permanent signings, only Rodrigues, Harris and Leigh can be classed as a success. We still have a number of big-wage or injury-prone players under contract until this summer, and also a few still out on loan elsewhere that we're paying wages towards (Findlay, Seddon, McGinty).

Manning started the rebuild of the squad, but he buggered off and left others to pick up the pieces, which invariably means any new manager is going to inherit a squad that isn't his players. Manning's squad was already a mishmash of his and Karl's players, and now Des has a squad which contain's Karl's, Manning's and his. You can argue that maybe a coach should be getting more out of the players they have available, but Des is trying to coach three different sets of players to be one unified cohesive unit.

Whatever happens between now and the end of the season, I want to give Des the summer to see what he can do to mould the squad into his way of playing. Another poster said in Des's 24 games, we've led in 14 of them - which is something to take from the way we set out games. Whether we have the game management or the personnel in order to finish off and see out games is another question, but if it is personnel-based, then we'll find out for sure after the summer transfer window.

 

[greatunclekip]

You can argue the ins and outs in detail, but ultimately it comes down to Des being incredibly bad tactically. Easily the worst I remember since Patto.

I looked at Lincoln’s squad yesterday and there is probably one player, man for man, I’d take above ours (Taylor).

Their form suggests a coach who took a while to figure out, but then decided a tactical plan to get the most out of it, and targeted 1-2 January signings to make it better.

We spent probably close to a million in January in fees/loan fees and we are turning in this shite.

 

[Swaby39]

No, you make sweeping and very long statements about how incredible Manning was bit can't back them up.

This nucleus of a long term squad that you speak of.

Beadle (loan) Eastwood - neither long term.
Stevens (loan) Long - neither long term.
Leigh - only left back
Moore Brown Thorniley Negru - no strength in depth, becoming badly exposed
Brannagan McGuane McEachran Smyth - McEachran can't run, McGuane inconsistent
Rodrigues Henry Goodrham Woltman - raw, out of contract, great potential, unseen
Mills (loan) Edwards (loan) Murphy Browne - no long term plan.
Harris Perkins (loan) O'Donkor - massively short of options

Of course nothing was going to change overnight and we all spoke about needing several windows to rebuild the squad so I'm not having a go at Manning for the players we had. But equally I'm not making him out to be a footballing genius who had the nucleus of a squad for the long term which has somehow been destroyed by Buckingham.

The fact is that our squad was fragile from the off, and we would always struggle with any injuries regardless of who was in charge.

That doesn't take away from the fact that Buckingham has failed to stamp his mark on this ream or get the best out of what he has, and he's undeniably failing at this time.

But constantly painting Manning as being perfect undermines your posts.

OK, that's how you describe them now, what about at the 14 game mark when we were second in the league with a 5 point cushion rarely turning in a bad performance?

So, to summarise, our fall from grace is not because Manning was doing everything right and getting the very most out of what we had, it's because Des has done everything wrong since? Good to have that cleared up. I have no idea why my appreciation for Manning bothers you so much. I have asked you time and time again to back up these claims that Manning is a wrongen. If I'm wrong, change my mind. Why did so many players commit their long term futures to him?

Funny how your views have changed on some of the list above to suit this discussion. For example, you now don't consider Brown a left back or even adequate cover when that's obviously why we didn't sign another option with Leigh initially. Those centre backs weren't exposed under Manning and Negru was looking like our next big thing at one point. Goodrham was lighting up the league at times under Manning even last season and I'm sure you were one who were thrusting him in to the limelight, horrified by any suggestion of a loan, but now he's just potential? Eastwood, Long, Murphy not long term options but you won't have a bad word said about them.

Manning used the loan market well and put us back on the map for high quality loan players that we hadn't been accessing for a while. Appreciate the chances of them sticking around were limited without promotion with the exception of Kyle Edwards who always looked likely to be a permanent option.

How long had it been since we actually attracted such sought after players like Rodrigues, Leigh, Harris. McEachran less so, but he did start nearly 40 games for Manning in a season that they finished 3rd so that was by no means a poor signing. He was great when Manning was here. we stopped delving in to daft spaces in the market for players and put ourselves front and centre for promising players. We then started to forward plan and signed some younger players like Woltmann who people loved in pre season and the young Scottish kid where a lot of fuss was made - it was a start of a big change.

I can't hold your hand with this. You're holding a sad grudge rather than just accepting it's painful to have been robbed of an exciting time under a 'terrific' manager.

 

[battman]

You say 'McGuane inconsistent' but that's the whole point, is he wasn't under Manning. He was MotM game after game. His fall from excellent is Buckingham's problem in microcosm. He hasn't the ability to get the best out of a team at this level.

Maybe McGuane has too look at himself though too? When he joined three/four years ago everyone thought he was probably too good for this level, but in that time we only saw the odd glimpse of ability under Karl and a three/four month spell under Manning. Is that really enough for a player of his potential? He's going from being in the Arsenal and Barca youth setups to potentially being released from a League One club this summer in the space of six years. I don't think that's all on Des.

 

[Up The Manor]

Sleep walking into 3 years of mediocrity oblivion under Des .
All the talk of championship football when it's more likely we could be relegation certs under his tenure .
The evolution of the playing squad has been non existent in his time .

 

[Swaby39]

I mean bar Stevens we lost all of our loan players, and of the six permanent signings, only Rodrigues, Harris and Leigh can be classed as a success. We still have a number of big-wage or injury-prone players under contract until this summer, and also a few still out on loan elsewhere that we're paying wages towards (Findlay, Seddon, McGinty).

Manning started the rebuild of the squad, but he buggered off and left others to pick up the pieces, which invariably means any new manager is going to inherit a squad that isn't his players. Manning's squad was already a mishmash of his and Karl's players, and now Des has a squad which contain's Karl's, Manning's and his. You can argue that maybe a coach should be getting more out of the players they have available, but Des is trying to coach three different sets of players to be one unified cohesive unit.

Whatever happens between now and the end of the season, I want to give Des the summer to see what he can do to mould the squad into his way of playing. Another poster said in Des's 24 games, we've led in 14 of them - which is something to take from the way we set out games. Whether we have the game management or the personnel in order to finish off and see out games is another question, but if it is personnel-based, then we'll find out for sure after the summer transfer window.

That's football. Sooner or later in Des' career he would leave and inherit a squad that wasn't his. For a period of time he would need to get something out of them until he could do his own thing. No sympathy there I'm afraid but I do (and did at the time) sympathise for the injury crisis and recalls. However, he can't say he wasn't backed to fill those spaces in Jan.

Every signing bar Perkins was a success until Manning left - Thorniley so so. Since then you can argue strongly that some haven't been quite what we thought. So do we credit Manning for that or are we suggesting ALL of those players were actually just rubbish and Des has been given a crap hand?

 

[werthersoriginal]

Agree.

These very same players who looked really comfortable, overly comfortable sometimes, earlier in the season passing the ball around for fun now look a bit rabbit in deadlights on the ball - Moore, Brown etc. I do think Beadle was a massive part of that confidence to just stroke it around at the back. There isn’t the same confidence in Cumming.

I agree about the goalie, I think he’s part of the reason why we look so nervous and keep making mistakes. But it must lead back to the manager as well. It’s bizarre how eg Brown who was our best player last season now seems unable to kick the ball in a straight line or approximately the required distance. Apart from Bolton most of our games have been close and winnable, and it’s been mentality that has let us down.

Having said that, if Rodrigues and Mcguane are really not trying let’s sell sell sell.

 

[QR]

Maybe McGuane has too look at himself though too? When he joined three/four years ago everyone thought he was probably too good for this level, but in that time we only saw the odd glimpse of ability under Karl and a three/four month spell under Manning. Is that really enough for a player of his potential? He's going from being in the Arsenal and Barca youth setups to potentially being released from a League One club this summer in the space of six years. I don't think that's all on Des.

If you can't see the bleeding obvious staring you straight in the face I can't help you.

 

[Thomas/Brock/Jones]

Personally I think Manning got alot out of a reasonably limited bunch of footballers playing a rather limited way .
Des has tried to expand on players being real leaders and using their own abilities but this hasn't worked so far .
As for Mannings signings being untold successes I disagree, some have been decent/good but no one amazing .

 

[Osei Yaw]

I am not saying that we should stand by Buckingham (or anyone) because of the management above them, but, if Buckingham is sacked, then it's back over to Williams and Ferguson to find the next manager.

For all the chat about PPG and the form table under Des, maybe we should be looking harder at the duo who have overseen the following:

• Keeping Robinson for far too long
• Not taking advantage of Mousinho when he was right under their nose
• Giving Manning the freedom to do as he wished, but not tying him down properly
• Bringing in Des (for a lot of money) but not supporting him properly

There are a few other bits I could mention, but those are the highlights for me. They have made critical failures with every manager they have overseen.

What makes it different next time? And when do we apply the same level of scrutiny to them as we do Des' substitutions?

 

[dickwalton1964]

OK, that's how you describe them now, what about at the 14 game mark when we were second in the league with a 5 point cushion rarely turning in a bad performance?

So, to summarise, our fall from grace is not because Manning was doing everything right and getting the very most out of what we had, it's because Des has done everything wrong since? Good to have that cleared up. I have no idea why my appreciation for Manning bothers you so much. I have asked you time and time again to back up these claims that Manning is a wrongen. If I'm wrong, change my mind. Why did so many players commit their long term futures to him?

Funny how your views have changed on some of the list above to suit this discussion. For example, you now don't consider Brown a left back or even adequate cover when that's obviously why we didn't sign another option with Leigh initially. Those centre backs weren't exposed under Manning and Negru was looking like our next big thing at one point. Goodrham was lighting up the league at times under Manning even last season and I'm sure you were one who were thrusting him in to the limelight, horrified by any suggestion of a loan, but now he's just potential? Eastwood, Long, Murphy not long term options but you won't have a bad word said about them.

Manning used the loan market well and put us back on the map for high quality loan players that we hadn't been accessing for a while. Appreciate the chances of them sticking around were limited without promotion with the exception of Kyle Edwards who always looked likely to be a permanent option.

How long had it been since we actually attracted such sought after players like Rodrigues, Leigh, Harris. McEachran less so, but he did start nearly 40 games for Manning in a season that they finished 3rd so that was by no means a poor signing. He was great when Manning was here. we stopped delving in to daft spaces in the market for players and put ourselves front and centre for promising players. We then started to forward plan and signed some younger players like Woltmann who people loved in pre season and the young Scottish kid where a lot of fuss was made - it was a start of a big change.

I can't hold your hand with this. You're holding a sad grudge rather than just accepting it's painful to have been robbed of an exciting time under a 'terrific' manager.

Great post.

It’s so depressing the way it’s panned out. I wouldn’t say we were quite yet riding the crest of a wave under Manning but everything seemed so calm, clear and concise under him. His interviews, although a bit bland at times, were a welcome change from the hysterical ones we’d got accustomed to. The possession football we saw wasn’t something we’d seen before from Oxford but it was new, something different. He has been a huge loss to this club.

 

[Billy Billy]

You say 'McGuane inconsistent' but that's the whole point is he wasn't under Manning. He was MotM game after game. His fall from excellent is Buckingham's problem in microcosm. He hasn't the ability to get the best out of a team at this level.

This is the main point for me. We had an in form Mcguane and Rodrigues giving 100% in a high press and now both have looked like they can’t be arsed. Add in the energy of Harris and Cam in that press, was where our control of games came from. Other things haven’t help like the Beadle leaving, and what looked like a good jan window turning out to be not great. But it’s down to the manager to get the best out of the players and that definitely isn’t happening.

 

[Yellow River]

I find it interesting that we went for Des, after Manning’s departure. He wasn’t my preferred choice but I’ve been supportive.

What was the rationale behind that decision?
Did the board think we’ll go for another City Group Manager who will carry on the work and foundations laid by Manning?

If they did think along those lines, did they take the time and effort to find out and understand that Des’ preferred style/formation is quite different to Mannings?

It seems to me we have a core group of players assembled by Manning and his preferred style/formation and a coach in Buckingham who wants to play with old fashioned wingers. Hence we’ve got Long, Bennett, Dale and Murphy all regular starters. Whereas previously Leigh, Stevens, Goodrham and Mills featured more heavily.

If the board stick with Des (& I think they will) then they’re are going to have to back him in the summer, this will involve quite a churn of players leaving and arriving.

It’s also a fair question to ask why wasn’t Desable to continue with Mannings system/formation? Surely a good coach should be able to do that.

In his defence I think it’s fair to say (initially) he had to deal with a fair few injuries, unable to give players (who needed one) a rest, plus just the general upheaval from moving halfway across the world and the shambles over back room staff appointments.

Were the injuries to Goodwin and Matete bad luck or did we take a gamble that hasn’t paid off? Those two fully fit would make a huge difference to Buckingham’s preferred formation/system, but they’re not fit and they weren’t when they arrived or since.

I’ll be there on Monday with the belief we can beat Fleetwood, while there are still points to be played for I’m not going to give up on the season. However I have to be honest and say we look like a mid-table not a playoff side with aspirations of promotion, far from it at the moment.