Carruthers out for six weeks!

[TailsWeWin]

All the players looked at towards the end of last season and again pre-season and then who signs? Interesting conundrum, what was it that decided players to go elsewhere?

Crap manager?

 

[uptheus]

Carrathurs has been unlucky and has virtually no impact on the side, but his injury could not have been expected. Mackie came in late and has shown that once fit he is a decent player, even if he struggles after 60-70 minutes he is still effective in his play. Holmes missed a few games early on due to a preplanned operation and general been fairly consistent outside of this. Browne looked great but was getting kicked to bits. He had an injury and is being managed back into the side, but with a bit more care as he's not our player.

All of these are footballing issues and happen to any club. I don't think it is simply down to bad recruitment, but to have had the injuries we have seen is unlucky. There are other sticks to beat KR with, but not sure he is a fault here.

No matter how you look at it the player recruitment during the summer has been extremely poor, especially when it was a known fact that we struggled to score last season and that Obika was injury prone, and couldn’t hit a barn door. So to bring in Mackie who has a reoccurring hip injury, Holmes with a known back problem and Browne having to be nursed through a knee issue wasn’t the best recipe to address this.

Yes a side needs a good balance of experience and youth in the right areas, but not a side of A&E suspects and inexperienced youth.

The only player of any note we acquired is Whyte. The rest (McMahon, Garbutt, Carruthers, Holmes, Mackie, Browne) I’m afraid aren’t what the doctor ordered for whatever reason or another unfortunately.

 

[Cass63]

No matter how you look at it the player recruitment during the summer has been extremely poor, especially when it was a known fact that we struggled to score last season and that Obika was injury prone, and couldn’t hit a barn door. So to bring in Mackie who has a reoccurring hip injury, Holmes with a known back problem and Browne having to be nursed through a knee issue wasn’t the best recipe to address this.

Yes a side needs a good balance of experience and youth in the right areas, but not a side of A&E suspects and inexperienced youth.

The only player of any note we acquired is Whyte. The rest (McMahon, Garbutt, Carruthers, Holmes, Mackie, Browne) I’m afraid aren’t what the doctor ordered for whatever reason or another unfortunately.

we used to get pissed off under wilders watch that players weren’t given medicals,now they are,we find out the players we go for are all injured, we couldn’t wait to get Holmes in the building then find out he can’t play 3 games in a row. Player recruitment this season has been crap, I’m not saying they are bad players but every week another one breaks down, how much are we paying Carothers not to play,

 

[Cass63]

I know I got Carruthers name wrong, it’s because I’ve never seen it on a team sheet.

 

[Scotchegg]

You might have a case for your argument were it not for the fact that we haven’t left the relegation zone all season. The likes of Baptiste, Whyte and bar the odd stupid decision, Brannagan in recent weeks, have shown that young and energetic players are the ones making the biggest difference to our play when available. You should never gamble on ageing players’ ability to get and then stay fit to define your entire season.

What I want to know is what happened to our recruitment department. The head scout left over a year ago to go to Leeds but where has the head of recruitment gone? All we hear about is “me and Tiger had a recruitment meeting”. Has everybody left? Is KR now signing players from his little black book? Have we gone back to the dark old days of having a ring round, hence so many of the players that have arrived since summer sharing the same agent?

Baptiste has hardly played during our recent improvements, but along with Whyte I think many would agree that it has been the performances of Mackie that has made the difference. In addition, Holmes is a player that puts defences on the back foot and has been one of our better players.

Any one brought in to the side is a gamble, and you have to try to find the right balance regardless of age. Garbutt is young with no history of injuries but has failed to impress. Norman has not progressed beyond a promising few games, Smith isn't getting a look in. Previously the kid from Arsenal, the 2 from Man City and God knows how many others have arrived with youth and energy but not succeeded.

So to say you should never gamble on ageing players is as ridiculous as saying that you should never gamble with untried kids. Some succeed, some don't.

 

[uptheus]

Baptiste has hardly played during our recent improvements, but along with Whyte I think many would agree that it has been the performances of Mackie that has made the difference. In addition, Holmes is a player that puts defences on the back foot and has been one of our better players.

Any one brought in to the side is a gamble, and you have to try to find the right balance regardless of age. Garbutt is young with no history of injuries but has failed to impress. Norman has not progressed beyond a promising few games, Smith isn't getting a look in. Previously the kid from Arsenal, the 2 from Man City and God knows how many others have arrived with youth and energy but not succeeded.

So to say you should never gamble on ageing players is as ridiculous as saying that you should never gamble with untried kids. Some succeed, some don't.

I agree with you about Mackie, but we needed better with less risk, especially as we only had Obika on the books.

Re; young players, there must have been better options of young players available from say the Championship who aren’t getting regular game time. Having said that, we did get Smith and that hadn’t worked out well!!

 

[Scotchegg]

I agree with you about Mackie, but we needed better with less risk, especially as we only had Obika on the books.

Re; young players, there must have been better options of young players available from say the Championship who aren’t getting regular game time. Having said that, we did get Smith and that hadn’t worked out well!!

That's my point, you take a gamble with whoever you bring in. Ageing pro's have experience but are also more likely to struggle with injuries. Young hopefuls may have fitness but struggle to adapt. Players dropping down the leagues are seen as failures, those stepping up a division might not cope.

Recruitment on a league 1 budget offers no guarantees. Kane Hemmings was initially thought to be a great signing, Whyte was seen as unproven. Some pay off, others don't.

 

[arthurturner]

No matter how you look at it the player recruitment during the summer has been extremely poor, especially when it was a known fact that we struggled to score last season and that Obika was injury prone, and couldn’t hit a barn door. So to bring in Mackie who has a reoccurring hip injury, Holmes with a known back problem and Browne having to be nursed through a knee issue wasn’t the best recipe to address this.

Yes a side needs a good balance of experience and youth in the right areas, but not a side of A&E suspects and inexperienced youth.

The only player of any note we acquired is Whyte. The rest (McMahon, Garbutt, Carruthers, Holmes, Mackie, Browne) I’m afraid aren’t what the doctor ordered for whatever reason or another unfortunately.

No, just what the doctor ended up with!

 

[unification]

Baptiste has hardly played during our recent improvements, but along with Whyte I think many would agree that it has been the performances of Mackie that has made the difference. In addition, Holmes is a player that puts defences on the back foot and has been one of our better players.

Any one brought in to the side is a gamble, and you have to try to find the right balance regardless of age. Garbutt is young with no history of injuries but has failed to impress. Norman has not progressed beyond a promising few games, Smith isn't getting a look in. Previously the kid from Arsenal, the 2 from Man City and God knows how many others have arrived with youth and energy but not succeeded.

So to say you should never gamble on ageing players is as ridiculous as saying that you should never gamble with untried kids. Some succeed, some don't.

He's 25 so not young and has had some long term injuries.

He hasn't really looked good enough for League 1 when a part-time LB in Josh Ruffels is massively outperforming him. It's astounding that he's still an Everton player really.

I didn't expect him to be as bad but he really hasn't been up to scratch.

 

[Scotchegg]

He's 25 so not young and has had some long term injuries.

He hasn't really looked good enough for League 1 when a part-time LB in Josh Ruffels is massively outperforming him. It's astounding that he's still an Everton player really.

I didn't expect him to be as bad but he really hasn't been up to scratch.

What injuries has Garbutt had? I'm not disagreeing that he hasn't been good enough, but even at 25 he's hardly past it and hasn't (to my knowledge) suffered with significant injuries.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

According to the OWS, Carruthers had an op today and "it’s unlikely we will see him again for four or five weeks". And then he has to start rehabilitation and training (presuming the op is a success). Five weeks will take until mid December - so I don't think he will be anywhere near the squad until late January at the earliest.

 

[The Hawk]

Unclear on loan rules but suspect if all in agreement we can get rid in Jan

Likewise Garbutt. I’m afraid if a part-timer like JR is keeping you out of the team it might be time to try a new career

The wages saved on those two need to be put towards players ready and able for the scrap at the death

 

[Berliner]

According to the OWS, Carruthers had an op today and "it’s unlikely we will see him again for four or five weeks". And then he has to start rehabilitation and training (presuming the op is a success). Five weeks will take until mid December - so I don't think he will be anywhere near the squad until late January at the earliest.

Sounds like meniscus or MCL to me. Hope the OP goes well and no other nasties are discovered, could be his season if so...

 

[unification]

What injuries has Garbutt had? I'm not disagreeing that he hasn't been good enough, but even at 25 he's hardly past it and hasn't (to my knowledge) suffered with significant injuries.

Just Googled it and it's my mistake - I was under the impression he'd had a serious knee injury but I misread my source. I take that element back.

The rest stands though. 25 years old and less than 120 professional games and an inability to cut the apron strings at Everton (being paid a reported £10kpw probably stops that!) suggest that maybe his talent is being eclipsed by his mindset. Does he want a career as a pro and is willing to do the hard stuff like Roofe, Lundstram and Ledson? Or does he want to coast as a permanent loanee until he's released down the leagues and he finds himself turning out for Vauxhall Motors?

 

[Upthecowboys]

I agree with you about Mackie, but we needed better with less risk, especially as we only had Obika on the books.

Re; young players, there must have been better options of young players available from say the Championship who aren’t getting regular game time. Having said that, we did get Smith and that hadn’t worked out well!!

Agree with this.

KR has said himself words to the effect that first loans don’t always work out, and that by taking Smith the club who takes him next may get more benefit etc.

This coupled with an ageing and injury prone Mackie means we are light up top. There is a lot I like about Mackie, his attitude is great and he seems to be a player that younger pros would look up to. Also thinks he comes across well when he interviews.

I know Obika’s recent injury was unlucky, but he has been injury prone for a few seasons. So to start the season with him, a young player on his first loan and an injury prone ageing player was a heck of a risk. A risk that is hard to explain.

 

[Deleted member 222]

Jamie Mackie has averaged 32.5 appearances a season over the last 10 years. 28.4 games a season over the last 5 years and 21.6 games a season over the last 3. Im not sure that is too bad for a player who is now 33 and it's not like he plays half heartily. You also need to remember that those games have been played at a higher level in the championship.

 

[Upthecowboys]

Jamie Mackie has averaged 32.5 appearances a season over the last 10 years. 28.4 games a season over the last 5 years and 21.6 games a season over the last 3. Im not sure that is too bad for a player who is now 33 and it's not like he plays half heartily. You also need to remember that those games have been played at a higher level in the championship.

Fair enough, and appreciate he has played at a higher level.

At the start of the season I looked at how many games Hall, Mackie and Obika had played. Can’t remember if I looked at last 3 or 5 seasons but their combined average was 25 games each per season. I know most players won’t play every game (injury / not selected) but the combined games played per season for these 3 roughly equaled 1.5 players playing a full season.

Hindsight is wonderful but at the moment it seems Mackie was a gamble worth taking but Smith wasn’t. Gambles for different reasons.

 

[Scotchegg]

Just Googled it and it's my mistake - I was under the impression he'd had a serious knee injury but I misread my source. I take that element back.

The rest stands though. 25 years old and less than 120 professional games and an inability to cut the apron strings at Everton (being paid a reported £10kpw probably stops that!) suggest that maybe his talent is being eclipsed by his mindset. Does he want a career as a pro and is willing to do the hard stuff like Roofe, Lundstram and Ledson? Or does he want to coast as a permanent loanee until he's released down the leagues and he finds himself turning out for Vauxhall Motors?

I'm not defending Garbutt who has been poor, but my point was in regard to criticism about ageing players being a gamble. Holmes and Mackie have been far better than Garbutt and Smith as an example.

 

[Oufcrealist]

Jamie Mackie has averaged 32.5 appearances a season over the last 10 years. 28.4 games a season over the last 5 years and 21.6 games a season over the last 3. Im not sure that is too bad for a player who is now 33 and it's not like he plays half heartily. You also need to remember that those games have been played at a higher level in the championship.

So averaging less than half a season over the last 3 years. Not what we needed frankly.

 

[Manorman]

Mackie was probably seen as a back up to Smith not the main striker. It hasn’t worked out that way and with Mackie now one yellow away from suspension the cupboard is looking bare.