National News Boris Johnson - Ousted Former PM

[Sharp Edges]

Why? Labour only got 37.7% of the vote in 2019. The Brexit party isn't standing this time and most of their votes will go to the Tories.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say.....Calamity for Johnson if Tories don't win.
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Calamity if the tories dont win a seat they have never won while trying to govern in a worldwide pandemic and embroiled in sleeze?? Are you sure about that?
Im sure the labour party and supporters on her will blame the electorate, the media, the weather and anything else they can think of rather than look at why the working class are not voting for them any more and they seem to appeal more to champagne socialists in London.
Suggesting the electorate are "thick" is quite something given they have voted labour for 47 years, or are you suggesting they will become "thick" on Thursday if they vote the tories in?

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Calamity if the tories dont win a seat they have never won while trying to govern in a worldwide pandemic and embroiled in sleeze?? Are you sure about that?
Im sure the labour party and supporters on her will blame the electorate, the media, the weather and anything else they can think of rather than look at why the working class are not voting for them any more and they seem to appeal more to champagne socialists in London.
Suggesting the electorate are "thick" is quite something given they have voted labour for 47 years, or are you suggesting they will become "thick" on Thursday if they vote the tories in?

Is it because champagne Conservatism is more aspirational and alluring? -Because that's what they'll be getting! No point trying to dress it up as anything else.

If there's a cogent argument as to why it will improve the lives, expectations and opportunities of the most deprived in society and in the Hartlepool constituency in particular, as opposed to opening up more ways to exploit them, I would really like to hear it.

The great thing about the imagery of Hartlepudlians hanging a monkey (because they thought it was a French sailor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger) only goes to show what you can achieve when you whip up a crowd with misinformation designed to divide people and demonise your opponents/enemies. It cuts both ways of course....

As an aside, I have/had family (through marriage) originally from the Hartlepool area, following their immigration from Norway to work in the shipping industry in the late 19th century. Hartlepool was one of the few towns to be hit with a German naval bombardment in WW1. Said relative was arrested and questioned as a German spy around that time because he was foreign by birth and sounded a bit funny!

 

[QR]

Calamity if the tories dont win a seat they have never won while trying to govern in a worldwide pandemic and embroiled in sleeze?? Are you sure about that?
Im sure the labour party and supporters on her will blame the electorate, the media, the weather and anything else they can think of rather than look at why the working class are not voting for them any more and they seem to appeal more to champagne socialists in London.
Suggesting the electorate are "thick" is quite something given they have voted labour for 47 years, or are you suggesting they will become "thick" on Thursday if they vote the tories in?

I see you don't do 'numbers' then.

 

[Pete Burrett]

As an aside, I have/had family (through marriage) originally from the Hartlepool area, following their immigration from Norway to work in the shipping industry in the late 19th century. Hartlepool was one of the few towns to be hit with a German naval bombardment in WW1. Said relative was arrested and questioned as a German spy around that time because he was foreign by birth and sounded a bit funny!

The maternal side of my family were all from Hartlepool, although some of them migrated south during the 1920s. Most worked in steel and shipbuilding. My great great grandfather was injured as a result of German naval bombardment in WW1. He was found beside a shell crater.

 

[QR]

And because a significant proportion don't care and don't do detail/are bored with politics/can't see how it affects their everyday life, it makes it open season for those most willing to manipulate the gullible.

Absolutely this, other than I would use the word ignorant (born of an 'I don't care' attitude rather than 'stupidity' ) not gullible.

 

[Eaststanding]

’The sailing set’, ‘gullible’, ‘stupid’, ‘vacuous’, ‘ignorant’?
As deflections from the inadequacies of the Labour Party go, these are special.
I don’t necessarily revel in seeing a rudderless political party, struggling to find their identity and especially when they’re in opposition but the longer the Keir Starmer s**t show continues the longer the Conservatives go on without credible challenge.
Appalling election results tomorrow may just be a blessing for his party in finding a new leader.

 

[Pete Burrett]

The longer the Keir Starmer s**t show continues the longer the Conservatives go on without credible challenge.
Appalling election results tomorrow may just be a blessing for his party in finding a new leader.

Inclined to agree. I find the situation sad, personally, but after the Corbyn years (and that really did turn into a s**t show) I had initial high hopes for Starmer. Very disappointing.

 

[Peterdev]

Labour have been very poor in opposition, despite lacking in Boris Johnson’s leadership.
The allegation that Boris Johnson suggested bodies piled high would be better than another lockdown looks bonkers, given he nearly died from Covid 19.
I would have liked to have seen a credible opposition to the Conservatives but Starmer hasn’t cut the mustard. That said have Labour got anyone that could provide the opposition? If there was a challenge I would expect Yvette Cooper and Lisa Nandy to amongst the front runners

 

[QR]

Labour have been very poor in opposition, despite lacking in Boris Johnson’s leadership.
The allegation that Boris Johnson suggested bodies piled high would be better than another lockdown looks bonkers, given he nearly died from Covid 19.
I would have liked to have seen a credible opposition to the Conservatives but Starmer hasn’t cut the mustard. That said have Labour got anyone that could provide the opposition? If there was a challenge I would expect Yvette Cooper and Lisa Nandy to amongst the front runners

Doesn't matter who the leader is, if the press isn't on their side they won't win (Blair knew that) which is why the recent bad press on Johnson is intriguing. Is it anti Tory or simply anti Johnson?

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Doesn't matter who the leader is, if the press isn't on their side they won't win (Blair knew that)

Can’t recall a single election or vote in my lifetime that Murdoch hasn’t backed the winner in. Probably because people like him are the ones who pick them.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Doesn't matter who the leader is, if the press isn't on their side they won't win (Blair knew that) which is why the recent bad press on Johnson is intriguing. Is it anti Tory or simply anti Johnson?

Labour have been very poor in opposition, despite lacking in Boris Johnson’s leadership.
The allegation that Boris Johnson suggested bodies piled high would be better than another lockdown looks bonkers, given he nearly died from Covid 19.
I would have liked to have seen a credible opposition to the Conservatives but Starmer hasn’t cut the mustard. That said have Labour got anyone that could provide the opposition? If there was a challenge I would expect Yvette Cooper and Lisa Nandy to amongst the front runners

I think the Labour party needs to make peace with itself first. It also needs to rediscover what are the key issues in the 21st century and where the real choices lie. Only that level of re-invention will really gain them a foothold I think.

Busting the myth that constant economic growth is either necessary or sustainable or that a trickle-down economic model actually works, rather than serve a select few who benefit the most from it.
Socially, ethically and environmentally responsible in everything they do.
More international cooperation and collaboration on big ticket items (ie future pandemic threat, climate change and resource pressures).
Less protectionism and nationalism.

 

[QR]

Busting the myth that constant economic growth is either necessary or sustainable or that a trickle-down economic model actually works, rather than serve a select few who benefit the most from it.
Socially, ethically and environmentally responsible in everything they do.

Agreed but the necessary minority won't buy it if it's not being hammered home by the press. Look how they can't see how the stamp duty holiday pushes up house prices to the benefit of the construction industry and detriment of those trying to get on the housing ladder.

 

[Carpy]

I think the Labour party needs to make peace with itself first. It also needs to rediscover what are the key issues in the 21st century and where the real choices lie. Only that level of re-invention will really gain them a foothold I think.

Busting the myth that constant economic growth is either necessary or sustainable or that a trickle-down economic model actually works, rather than serve a select few who benefit the most from it.
Socially, ethically and environmentally responsible in everything they do.
More international cooperation and collaboration on big ticket items (ie future pandemic threat, climate change and resource pressures).
Less protectionism and nationalism.

Labour could do with being a bit more visionary rather than reactionary. Corbyn tried, but his vision for the country was pretty warped.

All the posters on this forum slating Boris... you're correct, he needs to go and probably won't. Should he do just that though, I fear most of you would find a problem with any Tory leader, regardless of how intact their moral compass might be, because like everything now, you have to wholeheartedly belong to a tribe, be it the Conservatives or Labour

 

[QR]

Labour could do with being a bit more visionary rather than reactionary. Corbyn tried, but his vision for the country was pretty warped.

All the posters on this forum slating Boris... you're correct, he needs to go and probably won't. Should he do just that though, I fear most of you would find a problem with any Tory leader, regardless of how intact their moral compass might be, because like everything now, you have to wholeheartedly belong to a tribe, be it the Conservatives or Labour

I think Rory Stewart would have got the thumbs up from many non Tories.

 

[ttg17]

Labour could do with being a bit more visionary rather than reactionary. Corbyn tried, but his vision for the country was pretty warped.

All the posters on this forum slating Boris... you're correct, he needs to go and probably won't. Should he do just that though, I fear most of you would find a problem with any Tory leader, regardless of how intact their moral compass might be, because like everything now, you have to wholeheartedly belong to a tribe, be it the Conservatives or Labour

I feel like the reason the majority of people you're referring to (and I would include myself in that, though I would like to think I'm not blindly tribal to any particular party) would object to pretty much any of the current Conservative crop who would replace Johnson is because of the nature of his divide and rule government. The only reason he was able to win his majority and get his 'deal' through parliament was by ousting any even partly reasonable MP, and instead installing either loyal and sycophantic, but wholly incompetent, yes-men or entirely blinkered, staunchly anti-Europe zealots. Any half-way decent Conservative has been forced out - the likes of Grieve or Clarke or, as QR points out (and to not make this an entirely 'Remain good Brexit bad' post), Stewart. Added to that, the 'divide and rule' approach of the last two years has been a deliberate ploy to rile up anyone who is not staunchly pro-Brexit or pro-Conservative. From the trivial, like name-calling ('Do-gooder lefty lawyers'), to the more severe, such as directing funds, during a pandemic, more towards Conservative constituencies than those that voted alternatively, there has been no attempt at all at any kind of reconciliation. And the people in Cabinet were specifically chosen because of their willingness to go along with that approach rather than their relative competency.

On a personal level, if any of the Cabinet were to replace Johnson in the next few weeks, yes, I almost certainly would have a problem with them being our PM - but that's not simply because they're a Conservative, and on the 'other side', but because, by virtue of being in Johnson's Cabinet, they are objectionable. That said, I suppose Sunak wouldn't be too bad. Although that's probably at least partly because of his complete obscurity before the pandemic, and obviously favourable generosity throughout it.

 

[Marked Ox]

Doesn't matter who the leader is, if the press isn't on their side they won't win (Blair knew that) which is why the recent bad press on Johnson is intriguing. Is it anti Tory or simply anti Johnson?

Anti-Johnson as he has served his purpose.

 

[Carpy]

and to not make this an entirely 'Remain good Brexit bad' post), Stewart.

The problem is your above post has made it exactly about Brexit. The very MPs you claim to be decent are Pro-Europe and supported what I can only assume was your view. Ken Clarke was a member of the Thatcher Government whom most Labour supporters despise, and by your suggestion, makes him culpable to all of those decisions a lot of Labor voters suggest destroyed their livelihoods, because after all, he was part of the cabinet. Therefor, is he a nice guy? Or was he just nice because he agreed with you on a particular issue you felt strongly about?

You call them decent because they wanted what you wanted at the time and it furthers your current argument, let's not paint it as something it's not.

I do agree with regards to Sunak though, and I do think there are some snakes in the Cabinet, Patel and Gove stand up.

 

[QR]

Added to that, the 'divide and rule' approach of the last two years has been a deliberate ploy to rile up anyone who is not staunchly pro-Brexit or pro-Conservative. From the trivial, like name-calling ('Do-gooder lefty lawyers'), to the more severe, such as directing funds, during a pandemic, more towards Conservative constituencies than those that voted alternatively, there has been no attempt at all at any kind of reconciliation.

Not just not trying to hide what is a corrupt practice admitting it will happen more going forwards.

This is an outtake from a current Tory election leaf. Corruption without shame.

 

[ttg17]

The problem is your above post has made it exactly about Brexit. The very MPs you claim to be decent are Pro-Europe and supported what I can only assume was your view. Ken Clarke was a member of the Thatcher Government whom most Labour supporters despise, and by your suggestion, makes him culpable to all of those decisions a lot of Labor voters suggest destroyed their livelihoods, because after all, he was part of the cabinet. Therefor, is he a nice guy? Or was he just nice because he agreed with you on a particular issue you felt strongly about?

You call them decent because they wanted what you wanted at the time and it furthers your current argument, let's not paint it as something it's not.

I do agree with regards to Sunak though, and I do think there are some snakes in the Cabinet, Patel and Gove stand up.

I think you've misunderstood me. Obviously I feel strongly about Brexit - it's a generation-defining issue. But my objection to individuals in power in the current Government, and Cabinet, is that they are only in place because of their blind support for Johnson, and by extension his deal.

It doesn't matter whether they're Brexiteers or not. Patel could have been a staunch Remainer and I would still consider her cruel, divisive and wholly unfit for one of the great offices of state. Gavin Williamson is a literal joke, whether he goes to bed wrapped cosily in an EU flag or not. Having Matt Hancock holding the reigns of the NHS as Britain attempts to navigate its world public health crisis in decades would be horrifying regardless of his level of respect for decisions made at the CJEU. Hell even JRM has some kind of position of authority doesn't he? The man who suggested people who died in Grenfell died because they were too stupid to get out of the building in time?

The point is that these people now hold positions of power because they were willing to go along with Johnson's deal, and with the subsequent entrenchment of division that came with it - not because they are in any way the best for their respective roles. This isn't to cast any judgment on the deal itself (though I imagine you can probably guess how I feel about it) - it's an observation on the necessary mechanics involved in passing it.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

All the posters on this forum slating Boris... you're correct, he needs to go and probably won't. Should he do just that though, I fear most of you would find a problem with any Tory leader, regardless of how intact their moral compass might be, because like everything now, you have to wholeheartedly belong to a tribe, be it the Conservatives or Labour

I think Rory Stewart would have got the thumbs up from many non Tories.

Was genuinely about to say this. I would have possibly voted Conservative for the first time under Stewart. To say you’ll never vote for a party because of their name would be like saying that you’ll always be racist, because someone in your family going back 50 years once got into a nasty fight with a POC. It isn’t the colour of the rosette that I care about, it just so happens that the overwhelming majority those who tend to wear blue ones are complete wankers. It’s up to them to change that.

I don’t deny that most people probably don’t see it that way, however.