International News Immigration

m said:
In the vernacular, perhaps.

Fascism is still real though.

I make no comment on it's relevance to Farrage.
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Of course fascism is real, just like communism is real. The term fascism is often used either a) totally wrongly or b) hysterically. In the same way right-wing people may yell woke at things they don't like.

If you think Farage is a fascist that's fine, but in my view it's wrong. The way people band about the term fascism is disrespectful in my view to people who know what real fascism is.

It's the reason people will proudly declare themselves a socialist, they've never lived under it in places like Venezuela, East Germany, Romania or Yugoslavia.

It wasn't real socialism though, obviously.
 
Wandering Yellow said:
Of course fascism is real, just like communism is real. The term fascism is often used either a) totally wrongly or b) hysterically. In the same way right-wing people may yell woke at things they don't like.

If you think Farage is a fascist that's fine, but in my view it's wrong. The way people band about the term fascism is disrespectful in my view to people who know what real fascism is.

It's the reason people will proudly declare themselves a socialist, they've never lived under it in places like Venezuela, East Germany, Romania or Yugoslavia.

It wasn't real socialism though, obviously.
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You are complaining about the use of 'Fascism' being incorrect, but have now twice done the same mixing Socialism and Communism. None of these terms (and I'll include 'Woke' alongside them) are useful in arguments, they have all been twisted by the fringes from what they actually mean.
 
Wandering Yellow said:
Of course fascism is real, just like communism is real. The term fascism is often used either a) totally wrongly or b) hysterically. In the same way right-wing people may yell woke at things they don't like.

If you think Farage is a fascist that's fine, but in my view it's wrong. The way people band about the term fascism is disrespectful in my view to people who know what real fascism is.

It's the reason people will proudly declare themselves a socialist, they've never lived under it in places like Venezuela, East Germany, Romania or Yugoslavia.

It wasn't real socialism though, obviously.
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Thank you for confirming that a view which I may or may not have* is fine.

Thanks also for the social history lesson.

Are you treating communism and socialism as the same thing?


*I'll give you a clue: it's an utterly pointless argument which I couldn't give the tiniest f**k about
 
SteMerritt said:
You are complaining about the use of 'Fascism' being incorrect, but have now twice done the same mixing Socialism and Communism. None of these terms (and I'll include 'Woke' alongside them) are useful in arguments, they have all been twisted by the fringes from what they actually mean.
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I agree with you on the second sentence, so I think you agree with me that marstonroad's fascism comments were nonsense ultimately.

Lenin himself said the goal of socialism was communism.
 
I donā€™t know about anyone else, but I donā€™t mind being called a liberal and woke. Or socialist for that matter. Just because the right wing has tried to weaponise language by stigmatising words that donā€™t actually carry stigma.

It seems asymmetric with the other side where youā€™re not allowed to use any descriptive terms that might be felt to be stigmatising.

Remind me who the snowflakes are?
 
chuckbert said:
I donā€™t know about anyone else, but I donā€™t mind being called a liberal and woke. Or socialist for that matter. Just because the right wing has tried to weaponise language by stigmatising words that donā€™t actually carry stigma.

It seems asymmetric with the other side where youā€™re not allowed to use any descriptive terna that might be felt to be stigmatising.

Remind me who the snowflakes are?
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The hilarious irony of thinking left-wing people don't do the exact same thing on a larger scale.
 
chuckbert said:
Go on then - some examples?
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This is just going into a pointless slanging match of different language left and right wing people use to punish and ridicule the other.

Thinking only right wing media have weaponised language is so absolutely daft, it seems pointless to even engage with. Both sides of the spectrum have weaponised language for decades.

Some users on here really can't see the wood through the trees.
 
Wandering Yellow said:
You are doing a fantastic job of making yourself look incredibly dense.

You live in one of the most progressive and tolerant societies the world has ever had. The fact we left a corporatist political union which nobody ever voted to be a part of in the first place through democratic means does not mean Farage is a "fascist"

The fact much of the press correctly points out that this totally unprecedented level of mass immigration is unsustainable and comes with some risks is more common sense than it is anything to do with fascism.

I could point out woke universities, left wing media (ITV, Channel 4, Guardian) and start making the same hysterical claims you do. But I don't because I'm not a bedwetter.
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QR said:
You call people dense whilst using the word woke. Oh dear.
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Wandering Yellow said:
I used the word as an example of hyperbole and its just as valid to throw around as fascism.

I see a lot more "woke" things in the UK than fascist things.
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Oops! You've done it again!!
 
Wandering Yellow said:
This is just going into a pointless slanging match of different language left and right wing people use to punish and ridicule the other.

Thinking only right wing media have weaponised language is so absolutely daft, it seems pointless to even engage with. Both sides of the spectrum have weaponised language for decades.

Some users on here really can't see the wood through the trees.
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Thatā€™s unfair. You criticise someoneā€™s use of a term because of a relatively nuanced definition that you use. You then throw in some opposing terms as perjorative when they arenā€™t. You then complain that the left wing do it more than the right wing. You then wonā€™t give examples of this because itā€™s tit for tat.
Rather than telling others they canā€™t see the wood for the trees, maybe you might reflect on your own ideological filters too.
 
chuckbert said:
Thatā€™s unfair. You criticise someoneā€™s use of a term because of a relatively nuanced definition that you use. You then throw in some opposing terms as perjorative when they arenā€™t. You then complain that the left wing do it more than the right wing. You then wonā€™t give examples of this because itā€™s tit for tat.
Rather than telling others they canā€™t see the wood for the trees, maybe you might reflect on your own ideological filters too.
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Not sure why I should be compelled to do so when the likes of QR have shown they are totally incapable of doing so.

I try and give concessions and have a debate, but it's hard with people who can't see just how ideologically captured they are.
 
Wandering Yellow said:
Not sure why I should be compelled to do so when the likes of QR have shown they are totally incapable of doing so.

I try and give concessions and have a debate, but it's hard with people who can't see just how ideologically captured they are.
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With respect, youā€™re not having a debate. I made a point, with some examples. You said the opposite was true, but wonā€™t give examples. Thatā€™s not debate, itā€™s just assertion.

(Iā€™m now sounding like John Cleese in the ā€œis this the right room for an argumentā€ sketch).
 
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chuckbert said:
With respect, youā€™re not having a debate. I made a point, with some examples. You said the opposite was true, but wonā€™t give examples. Thatā€™s not debate, itā€™s just assertion.

(Iā€™m now sounding like John Cleese in the ā€œis this the right room for an argumentā€ sketch).
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I don't think there's any change you or the likes of QR will accept that the left wing have weaponised language even if I provide multiple examples, so what's the point?

Basham and Essex will agree with me, Ste and QR with you. Utter pointlessness.

If you really think weaponisation of language is only a right-wing thing, that's on you for having such a big blind spot. Big Brother is watching you.
 
So far what Iā€™ve understood of the argument here is that Farage isnā€™t a fascist, Iā€™m thick for thinking he is and that socialism and communism are the same thing ( although I canā€™t say nationalistic anti immigration right wingers are fascistā€¦..)

I am not allowed an opinion on Brexit banning more people coming here cos apparently closing our boarders doesnā€™t equate to banning everyone. Of course not.

The press isnā€™t right wing or hysterical ( apparently im the hysterical one ) and that I canā€™t call out people that are fascists because Iā€™m a woke snowflake liberal do gooder.


Got it
 
Marston Road yellow said:
So far what Iā€™ve understood of the argument here is that Farage isnā€™t a fascist, Iā€™m thick for thinking he is and that socialism and communism are the same thing ( although I canā€™t say nationalistic anti immigration right wingers are fascistā€¦..)

I am not allowed an opinion on Brexit banning more people coming here cos apparently closing our boarders doesnā€™t equate to banning everyone. Of course not.

The press isnā€™t right wing or hysterical ( apparently im the hysterical one ) and that I canā€™t call out people that are fascists because Iā€™m a woke snowflake liberal do gooder.


Got it
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Hysterical is completely what you are my friend.
 
Wandering Yellow said:
I don't think there's any change you or the likes of QR will accept that the left wing have weaponised language even if I provide multiple examples, so what's the point?

Basham and Essex will agree with me, Ste and QR with you. Utter pointlessness.

If you really think weaponisation of language is only a right-wing thing, that's on you for having such a big blind spot. Big Brother is watching you.
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Hey, don't put me in with a battle against the right, I said quite clearly that both sides had twisted words beyond their original meanings.
 
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