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[Malc]

But is Trump a socialist?

 

[SteMerritt]

Talking about value for your money in relation to public services, or any service for that matter, isn't nonsense in the slightest.

This statement I'll completely agree with. The definition of 'value' is what we disagree on.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

Talking about value for your money in relation to public services, or any service for that matter, isn't nonsense in the slightest.

For some, the value for money is better than it is for others and this largely depends on your personal use of said service. I didn't realise such a statement would be so controversial to be honest!

It's nonsense when that is the only metric you're using to judge value.

 

[MustardYellow]

It's nonsense when that is the only metric you're using to judge value.

It's the main metric of value of any service or product, no? What you are directly getting back for what you are personally putting in? It's disingenuous to suggest that isn't first and foremost almost always how we determine the benefit to anything we put our money in to (what we directly get back).

How we classify those benefits/value and the weight we put on them differs from person to person. That's why you may be happy to pay a certain price for a service/product but the next person may not, or thinks it's too much etc. As Ste said a minute ago, that's where we differ.

 

[Big Ron]

Just for the record I wouldn’t describe myself as a socialist but as a social democrat

I love the implied authority of WY's 'I've studied history', 'I've studied politics' and 'I did work experience at Parliament' and the notion that this board is some hotbed of socialist activity.

It would seem to me that most of the posters here are fairly centrist, perhaps centre left or right, with a couple of outliers here or there. But then again, I only studied catering, so what would I know.

 

[SteMerritt]

I love the implied authority of WY's 'I've studied history', 'I've studied politics' and 'I did work experience at Parliament' and the notion that this board is some hotbed of socialist activity.

It would seem to me that most of the posters here are fairly centrist, perhaps centre left or right, with a couple of outliers here or there. But then again, I only studied catering, so what would I know.

How to make a quiche? The most left-wing piece of baking known to man.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

And here is the big debate - freedom v equality. Too much equality and you restrict freedom. Too much freedom and you bake in inequality.

What’s needed is a balance. I am absolutely pro-freedom (you’d have to be daft not to be) but I do believe that the system we currently have is rigged in favour of the haves and that increasingly inequality is skewing our society.

There is a brilliant book which has great ideas but is turgidly written called A Theory of Justice by John Rawls. A Wikipedia summary would be sufficient! Anyway, I’m on board with him.

I make you correct there Eric.

My biggest fear with politics is we could end up with a system than inhibits freedoms, or makes me not feel like a free person. It's why (and this is obvious to most on here by now) I have so much paranoia around socialism. I can't think of anything worse than living somewhere like Russia and having to pretend to have certain beliefs and being restricted in what I can say.

Even though sometimes we might drive each other up the wall with our opinions on here one of the greatest things about living in the west is that we are free to have these discussions and express ourselves. I love the idea that politics is a war of free ideas and society tries to select the best ones to win. To an extent in the marketplace of ideas western countries got it relatively right for many many years, Europe is largely a prosperous place because some of the best ideas won.

The right are a threat to freedom in a way many right wing people don't seem to realise. Not really in this country, but a fair amount of Americans are "Libertarian" and seem to have this 'survival of the fittest' almost Darwinian mentality. So freedom for them but not for the unfortunates who happen to be weak often through no fault of their own.

When you say what's needed is balance I couldn't agree more. I think this forum skews majorly to the left (I know @SteMerritt would disagree with that - just my opinion), I would consider myself pragmatic but slightly left overall, and I am a counterbalance to lots of things I see on here which I feel need to be challenged. QR and ScotchEgg I'm sure are lovely people but some of what they say genuinely concerns me.

 

[Big Ron]

How to make a quiche? The most left-wing piece of baking known to man.

To be honest, it was an HND in Public Sector Socialist Catering - no quiche, sourdough or avocados, just plain old stolid cooking for the working man. Of course, we were also looking to control the means of production comrade.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

How to make a quiche? The most left-wing piece of baking known to man.

I'm now going to have to research whether or not McArthyism extended to the catering industry . . . .

Maybe I should just ask our resident history guru and Neil Oliver-alike whether "Chefs under the bed" was an actual thing, back in those halcyon (albeit extremely paranoid) days

 

[Sheik djibouti]

To be honest, it was an HND in Public Sector Socialist Catering - no quiche, sourdough or avocados, just plain old stolid cooking for the working man. Of course, we were also looking to control the means of production comrade.

And I BET they taught you how to stand on a picket line with all the other commie chefs!

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Your post reminds me of the opening to 'Loaded' by Primal Scream...

I was introduced to the 'drummer from primal scream' at a pub once, nice bloke.

Great song, Primal Scream are so underrated.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I love the implied authority of WY's 'I've studied history', 'I've studied politics' and 'I did work experience at Parliament' and the notion that this board is some hotbed of socialist activity.

It would seem to me that most of the posters here are fairly centrist, perhaps centre left or right, with a couple of outliers here or there. But then again, I only studied catering, so what would I know.

I didn't do "work experience" in Parliament, but I did study history and politics. I don't believe this gives me any authority at all over anyone on this board. I just point out when people use terms incorrectly sometimes, sorry if that makes me an arrogant b*stard. This board is certainly left-wing by political theory standards, as am I. There is absolutely no chance any political theorist would not class the things QR or the Egg say as firmly to the left.

FWIW I worked on Whitehall and it wasn't for me. I cannot fathom why you don't mute me as my presence on here bothers you so greatly.

Edit: The only poster who regularly posts on here with views I would consider traditionally right-wing (or at least small c conservative) is Essex and he takes pelters on here. Talk about thick skin he must have a rhino hide.

 

[Big Ron]

And I BET they taught you how to stand on a picket line with all the other commie chefs!

No, no, you're confusing me with a commis chef.

 

[Sheik djibouti]

No, no, you're confusing me with a commis chef.

My bad. What a difference a vowel makes!

 

[Big Ron]

I didn't do "work experience" in Parliament, but I did study history and politics. I don't believe this gives me any authority at all over anyone on this board. I just point out when people use terms incorrectly sometimes, sorry if that makes me an arrogant b*stard. This board is certainly left-wing by political theory standards, as am I. There is absolutely no chance any political theorist would not class the things QR or the Egg say as firmly to the left.

FWIW I worked on Whitehall and it wasn't for me. I cannot fathom why you don't mute me as my presence on here bothers you so greatly.

Edit: The only poster who regularly posts on here with views I would consider traditionally right-wing (or at least small c conservative) is Essex and he takes pelters on here. Talk about thick skin he must have a rhino hide.

What you do seem to do is confuse perception with actual hard evidence. I would have thought a politics and history graduate such as yourself would be very much evidence based.

As for 'my presence here bothers you so greatly' - it's a public forum, expect a response. I also love the self importance of 'I just point out when people use terms incorrectly sometimes'. How self aggrandising is that?

 

[Eric Blair]

I didn't do "work experience" in Parliament, but I did study history and politics. I don't believe this gives me any authority at all over anyone on this board. I just point out when people use terms incorrectly sometimes, sorry if that makes me an arrogant b*stard. This board is certainly left-wing by political theory standards, as am I. There is absolutely no chance any political theorist would not class the things QR or the Egg say as firmly to the left.

FWIW I worked on Whitehall and it wasn't for me. I cannot fathom why you don't mute me as my presence on here bothers you so greatly.

Edit: The only poster who regularly posts on here with views I would consider traditionally right-wing (or at least small c conservative) is Essex and he takes pelters on here. Talk about thick skin he must have a rhino hide.

I think @Scotchegg described himself as a moderate conservative.

And with regards to Essex there is a difference between being right wing and putting forward ideas for debate (which you rightly say is a good thing) and being a bit of a wind up merchant (sorry Essex).

 

[Eric Blair]

What you do seem to do is confuse perception with actual hard evidence. I would have thought a politics and history graduate such as yourself would be very much evidence based.

As for 'my presence here bothers you so greatly' - it's a public forum, expect a response. I also love the self importance of 'I just point out when people use terms incorrectly sometimes'. How self aggrandising is that?

I'm also going on the record and saying I would be very happy to eat @Big Ron 's cooking.

 

[Eric Blair]

Even though sometimes we might drive each other up the wall with our opinions on here one of the greatest things about living in the west is that we are free to have these discussions and express ourselves. I love the idea that politics is a war of free ideas and society tries to select the best ones to win. To an extent in the marketplace of ideas western countries got it relatively right for many many years, Europe is largely a prosperous place because some of the best ideas won.

The other thing I would add here is whilst the market place of ideas is good in principle I again think it is rigged slightly towards those with a libertarian, free-market outlook. So the fact that the Mail, Times and the Sun etc all carry a right wing bias (of course you could argue that it is just satisfying a market demand for those views) skews the debate in their favour i.e. the fact that Culture Wars take over our public discourse when we should be talking NHS, education and @Big Ron 's cooking.

The BBC isn't left or right in my view and tries to keep a balance (log may that continue).

The only counter voice is the Guardian which whilst having some good writers (Marina Hyde) also has some absolute drivel (yes, Owen Jones I'm looking at you).

Anyway, the market place of ideas is also rigged is my point but I don't know what can be done about it.

 

[Big Ron]

I'm also going on the record and saying I would be very happy to eat @Big Ron 's cooking.

That's very kind Eric, but I'd hold fire if I were you - it's very late70s/ early 80s style cooking, we boil the goodness out of everything and cook meat dry. None of your medium rare or veggie nonsense. You know, the sort of cooking a lot of us grew up with at home.

 

[Eric Blair]

That's very kind Eric, but I'd hold fire if I were you - it's very late70s/ early 80s style cooking, we boil the goodness out of everything and cook meat dry. None of your medium rare or veggie nonsense. You know, the sort of cooking a lot of us grew up with at home.

As long as its Angel Delight for dessert, I'm in.