General Oxford United Squad 2023/24

[RyanioBirdio]

For sure, but you'll still have some on here saying Josh Ruffels isn't a left-back despite him playing there for the best part of a decade and now in the Cship. The same seems to be happening now wit Brown, with people incapable of changing their mind having once though for him as a centre-back. There isn't an elusive innate 'left-backness' that these guys are lacking.

Brown barely played left back before 18 months ago, when Cardiff fans literally laughed him out of the Championship after a handful of games there. He is ‘fine’ there at L1 level and is going to win POTS because he tries really hard and everyone else has been crap, not because he’s been fantastic. He’s been consistently okay in a season where everybody else has been largely woeful, and that’s to his credit. But that’s why he’s going to win.

I like him. He is an okay player with a great attitude and a solid work ethic, which is endearing. Is he good enough to be a starting left back in a team that wants to get promoted into the Championship? I don’t think so. I don’t even care whether he ‘is one’ or not at this point, we need better than him in that role to go from celebrating survival to toasting promotion. We need a better left back, a better right back and a better centre back who makes Elliott Moore the junior partner rather than the senior stalwart.

And for Josh Murphy to feel like playing football, to get this thread even vaguely back on track.

 

[tatabanya]

Brown barely played left back before 18 months ago, when Cardiff fans literally laughed him out of the Championship after a handful of games there. He is ‘fine’ there at L1 level and is going to win POTS because he tries really hard and everyone else has been crap, not because he’s been fantastic. He’s been consistently okay in a season where everybody else has been largely woeful, and that’s to his credit. But that’s why he’s going to win.

I like him. He is an okay player with a great attitude and a solid work ethic, which is endearing. Is he good enough to be a starting left back in a team that wants to get promoted into the Championship? I don’t think so. I don’t even care whether he ‘is one’ or not at this point, we need better than him in that role to go from celebrating survival to toasting promotion. We need a better left back, a better right back and a better centre back who makes Elliott Moore the junior partner rather than the senior stalwart.

And for Josh Murphy to feel like playing football, to get this thread even vaguely back on track.

I don't think that's fair. Defensively he has been a rock for us on that side. Sure we've had issues keeping clean sheets, but I can't remember many L1 RWs terrorise him this season. He ranks very high in the whole league for full-backs for ground duels, interceptions and aerial wins. He is a very good defensive left-back at this level and a big reason why we restrict the opposition to so few big chances, even if we still conspire to concede a fair amount of goals.

Is he good enough to be a starting left back in a team that wants to get promoted into the Championship? I think he might be if you had a decent attacking minded right-back and could shuffle into a back three when he goes forward. Always want one attacking minded fb in a four and one stopper. He can be our Joe Skarz to the next George Baldock.

 

[Joey]

It was on a tweet and based on Opta data statistics, which are a pretty reliable data source.

From memory, the top 3 were Leif Davis, Joe Jacobson and Ciaron Brown, then Marvin Johnson and Nicky Cadden I think.

I'll look out the tweet later.

Thanks for that.

If say that while they are reliable as far as stats go, you need to be able to interpret them. For example our xG puts us around the playoffs which was something KR hid behind constantly, failing to take into account that Eastwood can't save much from 20 odd yards meaning we conceded loads of low xG goals, we were often behind by half time and teams would basically declare while we toiled and he left us short of any strikers. Context is key. I don't know how Opta work out their ratings but I'd imagine Brown scores very well amongst left backs for clearances, blocks etc, the proper muck and nettles stuff which isn't bad of course but it doesn't help us going forwards. I'd also bet that players like Cadden get punished for crosses that don't find a man etc whereas Brown rarely crosses.

As a case in point there's a stat based team of the season here. It's a bit of a pain in the a**e to read but you only have to go a couple of pages to see that it has a defence with Brown and some lads from Cheltenham and Fleetwood.

He should be our player of the season and deservedly so but this is based mostly on clear effort and being consistently decent amongst a load of crap. That's not meant to insult him but merely pointing out we've been shocking and the bar is shockingly low. I doubt any team going for promotion would be playing him at left back and it's a sign of how low out expectations are that so many of our fans don't see an issue with it. We've barely been able to create chances this season and a decent part of that is down to a back four that generally aren't that comfortable on the ball and able to progress it, which is what plenty of people have been saying for a while. Brown is sometimes good at carrying the ball forwards* and Long has a pretty decent cross on him when he gets into the final third but neither are particularly good passing with the ball at their feet or in tight spaces.

*This particular attribute would suit him to playing as the left sided centre back in a back three, like McNally before him. Would also mean we get a more footballing wingback on and allow Anderson to play in his best position on the other side. Would mean we don't play with any wingers though, which might be a problem now Murphy is back in form. Thread neatly back on track. To take it briefly off track again I'm pleased to see Browne on the wing again. I'd play him there or not at all, I don't think he has the decision making to play as a number 10 but is skilful and quick enough to beat a man one on one regularly and shoot or smash it across the box.

 

[Swaby39]

I don't think that's fair. Defensively he has been a rock for us on that side. Sure we've had issues keeping clean sheets, but I can't remember many L1 RWs terrorise him this season. He ranks very high in the whole league for full-backs for ground duels, interceptions and aerial wins. He is a very good defensive left-back at this level and a big reason why we restrict the opposition to so few big chances, even if we still conspire to concede a fair amount of goals.

Is he good enough to be a starting left back in a team that wants to get promoted into the Championship? I think he might be if you had a decent attacking minded right-back and could shuffle into a back three when he goes forward. Always want one attacking minded fb in a four and one stoppedr He can be our Joe Skarz to the next George Baldock.

If we were to change tactically as you say at the end, I'm all for it. He could be perfect in that role and deserves a chance to keep his place. But assuming we stay as we are, all the qualities you describe him as having are very fitting for a centre back. What about his offensive duties though? We can't just forego them, we'd have to offset them. It's a clear problem that neither full back are well-rounded enough - we've won once in 15 games... It's not the only reason but it's a big and obvious area to address. Last season we were pining for full backs in the summer. We still have the same players going in to next year! Standards have suffered as a result of this awful, forgettable season.

 

[tonyw]

I don't think that's fair. Defensively he has been a rock for us on that side. Sure we've had issues keeping clean sheets, but I can't remember many L1 RWs terrorise him this season. He ranks very high in the whole league for full-backs for ground duels, interceptions and aerial wins. He is a very good defensive left-back at this level and a big reason why we restrict the opposition to so few big chances, even if we still conspire to concede a fair amount of goals.

Is he good enough to be a starting left back in a team that wants to get promoted into the Championship? I think he might be if you had a decent attacking minded right-back and could shuffle into a back three when he goes forward. Always want one attacking minded fb in a four and one stopper. He can be our Joe Skarz to the next George Baldock.

I think this is fair - when we're talking about Ciaron Brown as a left back, it's extremely obvious that what he lacks is pace, skill and any trickery whatsoever.
Doesn't impact his defending at all (especially as his positioning is so good that he knows how to not be beaten by quick opposition wingers) but it does mean that his attacking threat is limited.....even if he can put in a reasonable cross and leather a ball at goal. And a promotion-calibre side does need to have some attacking threat from its full back positions.

As you say, that can not matter if you have a Baldock/Cadden on the other side - but we don't. We are playing someone with an extremely similar skill set (though not quite as good at it) in Sam Long.
(coincidence that our best spell of the season was when we played Anderson opposite Brown? Perhaps not).

This conversation started when people questioned whether Manning was playing square pegs in round holes - but the truth is yes, he absolutely is because he has to; because this squad completely lacks certain key attributes. We don't have any attacking fullbacks (that can defend well enough for LM to trust them to play there); We don't have a central midfielder with size and aggression who is a good tackler; and most criminally, we don't have a good finisher up front.

He gets a pass this season; going to be fascinating seeing him work in the summer - see if he can avoid KR's very obvious mistakes and fill some of the glaring holes in the squad.

 

[MJB]

If we were to change tactically as you say at the end, I'm all for it. He could be perfect in that role and deserves a chance to keep his place. But assuming we stay as we are, all the qualities you describe him as having are very fitting for a centre back. What about his offensive duties though? We can't just forego them, we'd have to offset them. It's a clear problem that neither full back are well-rounded enough - we've won once in 15 games... It's not the only reason but it's a big and obvious area to address. Last season we were pining for full backs in the summer. We still have the same players going in to next year! Standards have suffered as a result of this awful, forgettable season.

I wouldn’t describe this as being a forgettable season. And not should it be. Lessons need to be learnt by the club and quickly.

It really has been a mess of our own making through lack of clear and obvious decision making in not sacking KR much, much sooner.

 

[Swaby39]

I wouldn’t describe this as being a forgettable season. And not should it be. Lessons need to be learnt by the club and quickly.

It really has been a mess of our own making through lack of clear and obvious decision making in not sacking KR much, much sooner.

Yes poor choice of words. Regrettable, perhaps a better one.

 

[Nadi-]

Elite level players. Internationals and serial trophy winners. Apples and oranges when compared to League One footballers.

Anyway good to see a fiery Josh Murphy the last couple of games.
No question he has the ability, a fit and healthy Murphy,Browne, Brannagan and McGuane is as good as any div 1 unit, as long as all are firing on all cylinders at the same time.
Our left back is an international left centre half, which works well with a decent lwb in Jamal Lewis.
As nothern yellow? Correctly mentions previously, he’s very comfortable playing international football.
A back 3 of Ballard Cathcart and Brown, 2 of which play championship football, and you wouldn’t be able point out which 2 if you watched and didn’t know.

 

[Joey]

I think this is fair - when we're talking about Ciaron Brown as a left back, it's extremely obvious that what he lacks is pace, skill and any trickery whatsoever.
Doesn't impact his defending at all (especially as his positioning is so good that he knows how to not be beaten by quick opposition wingers) but it does mean that his attacking threat is limited.....even if he can put in a reasonable cross and leather a ball at goal. And a promotion-calibre side does need to have some attacking threat from its full back positions.

As you say, that can not matter if you have a Baldock/Cadden on the other side - but we don't. We are playing someone with an extremely similar skill set (though not quite as good at it) in Sam Long.
(coincidence that our best spell of the season was when we played Anderson opposite Brown? Perhaps not).

This conversation started when people questioned whether Manning was playing square pegs in round holes - but the truth is yes, he absolutely is because he has to; because this squad completely lacks certain key attributes. We don't have any attacking fullbacks (that can defend well enough for LM to trust them to play there); We don't have a central midfielder with size and aggression who is a good tackler; and most criminally, we don't have a good finisher up front.

He gets a pass this season; going to be fascinating seeing him work in the summer - see if he can avoid KR's very obvious mistakes and fill some of the glaring holes in the squad.

Agree with all of this and regarding the bit in bold George Elek made the point last week on The Dub that our win record with Anderson is miles better than without. He has his limitations but so do all our squad, he gives us a hell of a lot though when he plays even it's just forcing the other team back or creating space for others. Going back to the Brown being statistically the third best left back in the league, those actions by Anderson won't do anything for his rating but are much more helpful offensively.

 

[MJB]

Yes poor choice of words. Regrettable, perhaps a better one.

Sorry, I was being a bit of a pedant.

I know you feel similarly - I just want us all as fans not to think all is OK if we do manage to stay up.

This season has been a disgrace on the field and the senior leaders have to take a lot of the responsibility for that. They should publicly recognise that and set out how they will help ensure it doesn’t happen again in their watch.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

Brown is plenty good enough to play in the Championship. He got drummed out of Cardiff because they had the crazy notion that he was a left wing back. He is not good enough to play that role but he is good enough to play left back.
A lot of Cardiff fans thought so too.

I’d be offering him a new contract. He’s clearly player of the season.

As for Murphy well there is a lot of revisionism going on after Tuesday night. Let’s face it we all thought he was crap. Particularly at half time of the Bolton game.

Thank goodness he showed some of that old wing magic and actually turned up - for the third time this season.

Two great halves and one away cameo isn’t exactly player of the season territory. Let’s hope he destroys our two upcoming mighty opponents.

COYY.

 

[Foley]

Actually I don't think he's been as good when he's been played as centre back. (I do agree that ideally we'll sign a really good mobile specialist left back).

I tend to agree. I think that Brown was average at CB but has been decent at left back. A bit of a Josh Ruffels of a left back ( better defensively than JR, but JR is a better passer).

 

[Foley]

Yeah but if someone gave you Peter Crouch and Akinfenwa would you put them as wingbacks?!

Didn't MAPP play Ryan Taylor at right back for a game?

 

[Osei Yaw]

Ryan Williams is a right winger, left winger, right wing back, right back and left back.

Or

Karl Robinson couldn't build a coherent and well-balanced squad, and so he routinely relied on playing players out of position, especially at full back. That is why Ciaron Brown is a left back and why Jamie Hanson and Steve Seddon were right backs.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Ryan Williams is a right winger, left winger, right wing back, right back and left back.

Or

Karl Robinson couldn't build a coherent and well-balanced squad, and so he routinely relied on playing players out of position, especially at full back. That is why Ciaron Brown is a left back and why Jamie Hanson and Steve Seddon were right backs.

Odd to say Steve Seddon was a right back after playing there once?

 

[CCYellow]

Odd to say Steve Seddon was a right back after playing there once?

Well he kept Djavan Anderson, a right back, out of the team for a game and a half.

One minute, Ciaron Brown is a left back, because he kept a left back (Seddon), out of the team. Yet, the same logic doesn't apply when it's used to point out flaws in KR.

Strange.

 

[Osei Yaw]

Odd to say Steve Seddon was a right back after playing there once?

Not really. Seddon only had a game at right back because Robinson couldn't plan and recruit a balanced squad. That is the same reason why 'Ciaron Brown is a left back'. And also the same reason why Forde, Williams, Hanson, McNally etc have all covered at full back for us over the past few seasons.

I'd be amazed if Brown is our first choice left back next season.

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Not really. Seddon only had a game at right back because Robinson couldn't plan and recruit a balanced squad. That is the same reason why 'Ciaron Brown is a left back'. And also the same reason why Forde, Williams, Hanson, McNally etc have all covered at full back for us over the past few seasons.

I'd be amazed if Brown is our first choice left back next season.

2 managers have played Brown at left back over ‘official’ left backs. He is currently keeping a player on loan from a championship side out of the team.
It’s a bit like when MApp put Ruffles left back and we had the constant comments that Ruffles is a centre mid. He has now playing in the championship as a left back.

For Brown to go up the leagues, what he is doing at left back will do him the world of good.

 

[Osei Yaw]

2 managers have played Brown at left back over ‘official’ left backs. He is currently keeping a player on loan from a championship side out of the team.
It’s a bit like when MApp put Ruffles left back and we had the constant comments that Ruffles is a centre mid. He has now playing in the championship as a left back.

For Brown to go up the leagues, what he is doing at left back will do him the world of good.

2 managers? One of them being Robinson who, as I already stated, would play anybody at full back and is the one responsible for him being there in the first place. The same manager who openly said 'we don't have a left back at the club' at the Friday meeting attended by people from this very forum.

Then the other manager being Manning, who hasn't had an opportunity to recruit anyone else and who likely favours Brown's defensive qualities over Fleming's attacking instincts.

Like I said, I'd be amazed if Brown lines up as our first choice left back next season.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

I just want us all as fans not to think all is OK if we do manage to stay up.

This.

I hope the penny drops for a few when we open up next season away to Stevenage - whilst on the same day Plymouth go to Goodison Park.

"Here's what you could have won".