We have to be creative?

Our situation is different, but only down to relivant costs. The £4.3m is payable from previous player sales are is linked to expected receipts. Leeds pay off the Roofe deal - DE gets paid. Any additional money received (Ledson) can either be used to pay DE earlier or can be used for player signings etc. And whilst we haven't the same opportunities for income, the weekly expenditure is significantly lower.
That's very much dependent on how guaranteed the receipts from those player sales are. For example, the income from pre-season friendlies included in any deal won't be guaranteed. I would imagine that this is why the Ensco charge over OUFC includes ALL club income, not just transfer revenue.

And, yes, of course our weekly expenditure is lower, mainly because our ability to generate revenue to cover it is so restricted. That to my mind places a much greater stranglehold on the club's ability to progress than the situation at Sunderland.
 
So Sunderland's huge parachute payments advantage in this league of £35 million this coming season and potentially the Championship of a final £15 million is being snaffled away by £25 million owed to Ellis Short, which would leave them I think very disadvantaged compared to newly relegated EPL clubs and the other well funded clubs in the Championship. Also what I haven't seen clarified (may have been) is whether all the other debt that Sunderland owed has been paid off by Short - transfer fees due, bank loans, etc.

I originally read a similar article in the Sunderland Echo, but this works too.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sp...nces__parachute_payments_and_transfer_budget/

ON THIS SUMMER’S SPENDING COMMITMENTS

Methven: “This summer, people who follow the Sunderland situation closely will understand that there is a considerable cash requirement. The discussion with Ellis was that we would be able to pay him over a period of time because he knew that we were going to have quite a bit of investment that needed to be made this summer.
Donald: “In terms of the transfer money that’s owed (this summer), it’s a little bit more than the £18m that has been speculated. I think it’s nearer £25m.”
 
You’re hilarious. Was it you who suggested this forum was not the place for concerns to be raised about Tiger? Maybe someone else. But keep the Sunderland threads coming.
Please feel free to comment on the very many posts on my club.

Some things you may consider discussing;

You stated yourself that the appointment of Shaun Derry was very good and that he could easily manage a league club. Would you see this as a positive for our immediate plans? Would someone as experienced as Shaun come here without assurances on finances etc?

Given the need to bring in several players, would you consider us likely to be looking at deals around the £400-500k for individual players, or would we be better sticking to the model that worked well (Roofe, Lundstrum, Ledson etc).

If we were to make a few marquee signings, who do you think we should be after?

Would you have concerns for a club at our level to give full authority to the manager to bring in anyone and everyone he wants? Or would it be prudent to run signings through the chairman? Could we not be looking to learn from Pep's mistakes last summer?

What are your predictions for the coming season? Should we look to stabilise or have we got it in ourselves to push for promotion?
 
Please feel free to comment on the very many posts on my club.

Some things you may consider discussing;

You stated yourself that the appointment of Shaun Derry was very good and that he could easily manage a league club. Would you see this as a positive for our immediate plans? Would someone as experienced as Shaun come here without assurances on finances etc?

Given the need to bring in several players, would you consider us likely to be looking at deals around the £400-500k for individual players, or would we be better sticking to the model that worked well (Roofe, Lundstrum, Ledson etc).

If we were to make a few marquee signings, who do you think we should be after?

Would you have concerns for a club at our level to give full authority to the manager to bring in anyone and everyone he wants? Or would it be prudent to run signings through the chairman? Could we not be looking to learn from Pep's mistakes last summer?

What are your predictions for the coming season? Should we look to stabilise or have we got it in ourselves to push for promotion?


Ooooh, I wanna go!


What, specifically, are your concerns regarding Tiger?
 
The way I read the SAFC takeover was that Stew Don will pay £40m out of his own pocket for the club. Given the huge loss-making situation of the club, likelihood is that he will have to invest significant funds into the club in order for it to meet its day-to-day liabilities. Therefore, SD negotiated to pay the purchase price to Ellis Short in installments to aid his cash-flow - with parachute payments being used as security. Most importantly, cost of takeover to the club is nil i.e. debt was not ported.

Tiger acquired OUFC whose only assets are future transfer incomes for players previously sold under DE. Rather than pay out of his own pocket for the club, he agreed with DE that these future transfer incomes would be paid to the former owner to the tune of £4m. Tiger has/will have to dip into his own pocket for the club to meet its day-to-day liabilities as well. BUT, cost of takeover to the club (rather than the individual) is £4m.

There is, naturally, a possibility I may have mis-understood.
 
The way I read the SAFC takeover was that Stew Don will pay £40m out of his own pocket for the club. Given the huge loss-making situation of the club, likelihood is that he will have to invest significant funds into the club in order for it to meet its day-to-day liabilities. Therefore, SD negotiated to pay the purchase price to Ellis Short in installments to aid his cash-flow - with parachute payments being used as security. Most importantly, cost of takeover to the club is nil i.e. debt was not ported.

Tiger acquired OUFC whose only assets are future transfer incomes for players previously sold under DE. Rather than pay out of his own pocket for the club, he agreed with DE that these future transfer incomes would be paid to the former owner to the tune of £4m. Tiger has/will have to dip into his own pocket for the club to meet its day-to-day liabilities as well. BUT, cost of takeover to the club (rather than the individual) is £4m.

There is, naturally, a possibility I may have mis-understood.
well it can be spun both ways
Stew has to find an extra £25M in the next two years to repay Short on top of the £15M he has already paid, and funding the club and presumably pay the transfer fee creditors. If he doesn't and uses the parachute payments, then it is a cost to the club, because it is taking away income.
Tiger had to find £4M to repay Eales on top of what he has already paid by 2019, and fund the club. If he doesn't, and uses the transfer fees received, then it is a cost to the club, because it is taking away income.

When Eales sold the club, he knew there was guaranteed remainder of fees coming in on O'Dowda, Roofe, Johnson, and Lundstram. If he didn't factor that it into the sale price, he may as well have just given Tiger the money. Secondly there are potential add-ons from those players, such as sell-ons or appearances. Then there are the players that hadn't been sold at the time, such as Ledson, Rothwell, Eastwood, Nelson, all of whom could be assumed to be worth a decent transfer fee - again, not including values for those in the sale price would effectively give them away free to Tiger.

When Short sold SAFC, he knew there was around £45 - £50M of parachute payments guaranteed to come in, so if he didn't factor that into the sale price, he may as well have just given that straight to Stew.
 
I have no interest in what Sunderland or any other club are doing. Only those who have some perverse obsession with Methven and Donald do. That is the only possible relevance Sunderland have. Might not be a bad idea if you and others cast the same quizzical eye over your own club rather than another.

So who do you support?
 
I have no interest in what Sunderland or any other club are doing. Only those who have some perverse obsession with Methven and Donald do. That is the only possible relevance Sunderland have. Might not be a bad idea if you and others cast the same quizzical eye over your own club rather than another.

And which club do you support?
 
Please feel free to comment on the very many posts on my club.

Some things you may consider discussing;

You stated yourself that the appointment of Shaun Derry was very good and that he could easily manage a league club. Would you see this as a positive for our immediate plans? Would someone as experienced as Shaun come here without assurances on finances etc?

Given the need to bring in several players, would you consider us likely to be looking at deals around the £400-500k for individual players, or would we be better sticking to the model that worked well (Roofe, Lundstrum, Ledson etc).

If we were to make a few marquee signings, who do you think we should be after?

Would you have concerns for a club at our level to give full authority to the manager to bring in anyone and everyone he wants? Or would it be prudent to run signings through the chairman? Could we not be looking to learn from Pep's mistakes last summer?

What are your predictions for the coming season? Should we look to stabilise or have we got it in ourselves to push for promotion?

I’ve already said on this thread we should not be spending those sums on players.

Most of the other questions can be answered by our chairman when he furnishes tsupporters with a coherent plan for his tenure to include budgets, recruitment structure etc. Certainly the first is crucial to fan expectation.

maybe he’ll do that once he’s back from the EFL club chairmen meeting in Portugal. Oh wait. He’s not there.
 
If people read Paul’s fan’s views from last season, each match he would report on what he could glean about the opposition’s off the pitch financial position.

So i think there is an interest in what OUFC are up against compared to other clubs. So if they own the stadium and the revenues , what debt is there , what are attendances and revenue like, what are the player costs ?

A club in financial crisis will often be down the bottom of the league - see Chesterfield , Oldham , Northampton.

So far we don’t really know much about Tiger’s actual plans for OUFC and how it will be funded.
 
To all those worrying about the lack of signings, we only have to think back to last summer when the same concerns were held at the start of the window and then we ended up with over 15 new players
 
That's very much dependent on how guaranteed the receipts from those player sales are. For example, the income from pre-season friendlies included in any deal won't be guaranteed. I would imagine that this is why the Ensco charge over OUFC includes ALL club income, not just transfer revenue.

And, yes, of course our weekly expenditure is lower, mainly because our ability to generate revenue to cover it is so restricted. That to my mind places a much greater stranglehold on the club's ability to progress than the situation at Sunderland.

That's very much dependent on how guaranteed the receipts from those player sales are. For example, the income from pre-season friendlies included in any deal won't be guaranteed. I would imagine that this is why the Ensco charge over OUFC includes ALL club income, not just transfer revenue.

And, yes, of course our weekly expenditure is lower, mainly because our ability to generate revenue to cover it is so restricted. That to my mind places a much greater stranglehold on the club's ability to progress than the situation at Sunderland.

WE (The club ) the supporters, do recognized that there are other clubs that have a monetary advantage on us ( although we are (at present) not sure of how much) but OUR club has a very good history of bucking the odds on progression.

COYY
 
To all those worrying about the lack of signings, we only have to think back to last summer when the same concerns were held at the start of the window and then we ended up with over 15 new players
But a lot of that was down the DE allowing Pep to acquire crap, only Henry and Richardino stood out, I won’t include Payne as he was recalled
 
I’ve already said on this thread we should not be spending those sums on players.

Most of the other questions can be answered by our chairman when he furnishes tsupporters with a coherent plan for his tenure to include budgets, recruitment structure etc. Certainly the first is crucial to fan expectation.

maybe he’ll do that once he’s back from the EFL club chairmen meeting in Portugal. Oh wait. He’s not there.


Is it a requisite that he must attend? or can a representative (another board member or such) be present ?
 
But a lot of that was down the DE allowing Pep to acquire crap, only Henry and Richardino stood out, I won’t include Payne as he was recalled
15 players?? That's debatable, under the trades descriptions act regarding most of them.

Some said when KR took charge, all the talk of speaking to so many agents, wanting to get business done early, maybe wishful thinking.
Now with a few days to go before the fixtures come out, I hope it doesn't come back to haunt him.
 
That's very much dependent on how guaranteed the receipts from those player sales are. For example, the income from pre-season friendlies included in any deal won't be guaranteed. I would imagine that this is why the Ensco charge over OUFC includes
I’ve already said on this thread we should not be spending those sums on players.

Most of the other questions can be answered by our chairman when he furnishes tsupporters with a coherent plan for his tenure to include budgets, recruitment structure etc. Certainly the first is crucial to fan expectation.

maybe he’ll do that once he’s back from the EFL club chairmen meeting in Portugal. Oh wait. He’s not there.


I was not asking the chairman's views I was asking yours as you so desperately want to talk about Oxford, but you just show yourself as a troll yet again by trying to create an issue where none exist.

No wonder you're struggling for work if this is the best you can come up with!
 
Seems to me you have to be creative if when we sell players we dont immediately get the full payment. We need to write off the deferred cash from the superstars of tomorrow we have sold as that cash is owed to DE and used therefore to reduce the club debt - he is a legitimate creditor and sold on the basis of being repaid quickly. My biggest concern is that come the end of June, when players are out of contract, that we may get last minute offers for people like Rothwell and Nelson and are then left with a tight deadline to pick up replacements (dregs?) - we cant stop them leaving and thats our model anyway, but we could make a strong statement that for players still in contract (Nelson) we will not listen to offers beyond say 30/6 and play hardball on the numbers. The other side of the coin is that once they are OOC, players are also then desperate to get a new club sorted out so it becomes a buyers market. If they dont sign they risk missing the boat (Peter Leven comes to mind). It could be that KR knows Nelson will not sign again and Rothwell is likely to go, so the budget for incoming transfers may revolve around what happens with them and how much we can cash in. Until then I only expect to see young "freebies" coming and since our success at cashing in on them in the past is so evident we can probably expect much higher parachute/% of sell on fees to increase. The model is at risk of not working if these rise to the extent that there is no equity left in the player when we sell him on. Still maintain we are WIP and this year is likely to be more about getting players on a 3 year deal, becoming a tight (smaller) unit who can play together (West Brom) and can make a serious push once we are competitive and need tweaking rather than rebuilding. Like many in the lower leagues, we dont have much cash - we need to become more sustainable and that doesnt happen overnight. Loved KR comment though about spending money on the wrong type of players potentially causing a meltdown - a swipe at Pep but bang on!. The cream of L1 will go to the Championship but younger players will have seen how we can be a stepping stone to more lucrative deals with bigger clubs and we have to be more attractive than most at this level. Its all about throwing mud at the wall and hoping some of it sticks but I would rather we were creative and take talented young players as our own, that we dont make as much on when we sell, than revert to taking loanees who are the core of our team and get recalled and loaned to our competitors in January.
 
Most of the other questions can be answered by our chairman when he furnishes tsupporters with a coherent plan for his tenure to include budgets, recruitment structure etc. Certainly the first is crucial to fan expectation.

I can't remember any OUFC chairman doing that. Ever.

I'm not convinced that placing your budgets in the public domain before a season starts is necessarily the best idea either.
 
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