World Cup WC 2026: R16 - Mexico v England

[Swaby39]

Bellingham has had a great WC but I don’t think fans questioning his worth prior to this WC were wrong. He had been underwhelming for England for a fair while and by all accounts his club form wasn’t great either. Absolutely stepped up though and one of the players of the tournament. No fan crowing with a ‘told you so’ could have predicted this level of performance given his last 12-18 months.

Far easier if people that wrote him off or did the typically British thing of trying to bring a superstar down just hold their hands up and say they got him wrong.

I think you're unfair with the last sentence as well - he's always showed up in tournaments. I think most people know exactly what he is capable of and suspected it would come out with some good management. It looks like Tuchel has raised the bar from Southgate's holistic 'what will be, will be, as long as the Media likes us' style and to me it looks like Bellingham is thriving in that proper winning intensity.

 

[boogaloo]

Bellingham has had a great WC but I don’t think fans questioning his worth prior to this WC were wrong. He had been underwhelming for England for a fair while and by all accounts his club form wasn’t great either. Absolutely stepped up though and one of the players of the tournament. No fan crowing with a ‘told you so’ could have predicted this level of performance given his last 12-18 months.

I thought that was a first class piece of man-management by Thomas Tuchel. He dropped him, which raised a few eye-brows in some area of the media. But what it actually did was send a message, that 'Yes, although you are a very talented individual - you are not untouchable, and you need to work for your place in the team like everyone else'.

That proved to be the kick up the a**e Bellingham needed, and now we are starting to see and enjoy the output. That's a credit to Tuchel, and a credit to Bellingham.

 

[dickwalton1964]

Far easier if people that wrote him off or did the typically British thing of trying to bring a superstar down just hold their hands up and say they got him wrong.

I think you're unfair with the last sentence as well - he's always showed up in tournaments. I think most people know exactly what he is capable of and suspected it would come out with some good management. It looks like Tuchel has raised the bar from Southgate's holistic 'what will be, will be, as long as the Media likes us' style and to me it looks like Bellingham is thriving in that proper winning intensity.

Have we had a tournament in the last 12-18 months ?

 

[Swaby39]

Have we had a tournament in the last 12-18 months ?

No, my point is he should have had far more credit in the bank and people were way, way too quick to jump on him for a being off his best. I can understand players not being particularly interested in friendlies and the Nations League (basically the JPT of international football) but when a Euros or World Cup roles around, he rarely disappoints. I think he responds to coaches that demand more than just a good effort.

He's a superstar that's gone to a far higher level historically than most of our squad despite being one of the youngest. You follow this guy, you don't beat him.

 

[dickwalton1964]

No, my point is he should have had far more credit in the bank and people were way, way too quick to jump on him for a being off his best. I can understand players not being particularly interested in friendlies and the Nations League (basically the JPT of international football) but when a Euros or World Cup roles around, he rarely disappoints. I think he responds to coaches that demand more than just a good effort.

He's a superstar that's gone to a far higher level historically than most of our squad despite being one of the youngest. You follow this guy, you don't beat him.

I agree with a lot of what you say and the ceiling for Bellingham is limitless but he has a bit to go still. In my lifetime the genuinely world class players - there’s probably been a dozen at most - don’t just turn up for tournaments or finals though, they are there or thereabouts season in, season out - some probably only having a quiet month or two during those seasons. Take the modern day two - Ronaldo and Messi - their form didn’t really dip, forgetting where they are now, they delivered virtually weekly for their respective clubs. That’s the level Bellingham needs to reach but he’s capable of it. I have no doubt he will play in the PL one day and assuming it’s still in his prime there will be a mad scramble for his signature.

 

[Northstandboy]

Looks like Henderson will be flying back!

 

[Steve Gilbert]

I agree with a lot of what you say and the ceiling for Bellingham is limitless but he has a bit to go still. In my lifetime the genuinely world class players - there’s probably been a dozen at most - don’t just turn up for tournaments or finals though, they are there or thereabouts season in, season out - some probably only having a quiet month or two during those seasons. Take the modern day two - Ronaldo and Messi - their form didn’t really dip, forgetting where they are now, they delivered virtually weekly for their respective clubs. That’s the level Bellingham needs to reach but he’s capable of it. I have no doubt he will play in the PL one day and assuming it’s still in his prime there will be a mad scramble for his signature.

I have been a big fan of Bellingham's for a number of years now, the issue I think some fans have is that he has an arrogance about him and he doesn't care if people slag him off and generally English fans don't like that.

He is up there as one of the best in the world in his position. I'm not sure I can name many others who can play the 8 role as good and take a game by the scruff of the neck and turn a game by himself?

As for playing in the Premier League, I can see it too but it would take a massive offer to get him out of one of the biggest clubs in the world in Real Madrid.

 

[Marked Ox]

Personally I think all the red cards so far in the tournament have been justifiable*, except Balogun's - the Mexican one in the first game was the harshest.....but it was still a purposeful professional foul.....just one where there was probably a covering defender, so it probably should have been yellow.

The Sithole, Muharemovic, Ahmed, Ngoy and Sulaka reds were all no-doubt, last man denying a goal scoring opportunity challenges. The Canobbio red was a last minute "I'm going to ****ing maim someone on the way out" horror challenge (and it wouldn't really matter if you lifted the suspension for that one). The Almiron and Hincapie reds were for covering their mouths while abusing someone (maybe a silly rule, but it is a rule). And Zwane slapped a dude.

Meanwhile, Balogun's contact was purely accidental - he wasn't even looking at the guy he landed on awkwardly.

(*I can't really comment on the second Qatar one, as they never showed a replay in the feed I was watching because the Canadian dude's leg break was so hideous)

Any time a player is unjustifiably sent off for the rest of the tournament, then yes - there is now precedent for them to not serve a suspension.

Doesn't apply to Quansah, sadly. He was just a numpty.

The 2nd Qatari red based on a brief look isn't a red but is a horrific injury nonetheless. And is one mentioned in an article about this I saw highlighting FIFA's inconsistency and even then the punishment was doubled down on.

So even in your opinion you've found one that is harsh but FIFA chose not to make an exception for them unlike the hosts after Trump/White House cried about it.

The harshness, or not, of the Red is irrelevant when FIFA are treating the response to decisions differently.

That doesn't even get into the lack of transparency by FIFA over their reasoning/decision process.

I joked about Charles and William getting involved, but with FIFA why not give it a go as it may just work.

 

[WE Yellow]

There was never any real substance behind the Bellingham drop shouts just like there's never been any substance around the Pickford ones apart from club bias and the want to be a contrarian. Both of them show up time and time again at major tournaments.

See also;

Kyle Walker
Raheem Sterling
Harry Maguire
John Stones
Declan Rice

I am a little concerned about Anderson's performances this tournament mind, the bloke looked lost last night and I wouldn't be against shifting O'Reilly to a more natural position against Norway in place of him.

 

[Belgium Yellow]

This might sound contradictory but I thought the ref was both poor and excellent. Poor in that he missed the main incidents and needed VAR for the penalty and sending off. Excellent in terms of how he handled the pressure and kept order. You could see that the players liked his attitude, gestures, communication etc. would be a good choice for the final.

 

[Swaby39]

I agree with a lot of what you say and the ceiling for Bellingham is limitless but he has a bit to go still. In my lifetime the genuinely world class players - there’s probably been a dozen at most - don’t just turn up for tournaments or finals though, they are there or thereabouts season in, season out - some probably only having a quiet month or two during those seasons. Take the modern day two - Ronaldo and Messi - their form didn’t really dip, forgetting where they are now, they delivered virtually weekly for their respective clubs. That’s the level Bellingham needs to reach but he’s capable of it. I have no doubt he will play in the PL one day and assuming it’s still in his prime there will be a mad scramble for his signature.

He's still so young. I can't remember too many players in the last 10-15 years that have been that influential for club and country at that age. Haaland is probably in that conversation, Yamal coming through, Mbappe another - pretty good company though.

Some have a different perspective. I think there are lots of world class footballers around but very few who, in the big moments, puff their chest out and make the difference. We're lucky enough to have two at the moment but Kane is that much older than Bellingham.

I go back to my point on managers though. He played his best club football for Ancelotti - a win at all costs kind of guy. His exit from Madrid plus injuries led to a lull for Jude, but look him now in the hands of a very comparable coach in Tuchel.

In England we don't embrace these big characters very well. The golden generation had all the arrogance but couldn't back it up. Now we have a lad that can and it pissed a few people off. We like humble, understated heroes but that's got us nowhere for 60 years.

 

[PottersRightBoot]

There was never any real substance behind the Bellingham drop shouts just like there's never been any substance around the Pickford ones apart from club bias and the want to be a contrarian. Both of them show up time and time again at major tournaments.

See also;

Kyle Walker
Raheem Sterling
Harry Maguire
John Stones
Declan Rice

I am a little concerned about Anderson's performances this tournament mind, the bloke looked lost last night and I wouldn't be against shifting O'Reilly to a more natural position against Norway in place of him.

Anderson made our second goal . He is well worth his place; work rate second to none. Plus who’s playing left back if O’R moves into midfield. There isn’t anybody else left footed!

 

[PottersRightBoot]

You’ve got to take your hat off to Tuchel. Excellent, well timed substitutions, key players being motivated to the max, counter pressing nirvana’ ‘If’‘Quansah had not seen red we would have won by 2 or 3, we were killing Mexico early in the second half.

 

[Swaby39]

Anderson made our second goal . He is well worth his place; work rate second to none. Plus who’s playing left back if O’R moves into midfield. There isn’t anybody else left footed!

I'm a big fan of Anderson, he's added so much to this team already and will get better. Man City will take him to a new level and I think he, Rice and Bellingham will be immovable for the next 2 or 3 tournaments. Imagine he kicks on in the way Rice has... I think Spain have the best midfield in international football largely thanks to the dominance of Rodri but we aren't far off.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

Good to see we're back into 'England are an irresistible force and could dominate international football for the next 10-12 years' territory.

Do we swing back to 'the manager is a clown and none of our players are world class' after the Norway game or do we wait until Argentina before that kicks back in?

 

[Chris on a Bike]

It was suspended absolutely pathetic from fifa
If that was any other team the red card would of stood

I see EUFA have stopped just short of calling it corrupt

 

[Billyox]

I'm a big fan of Anderson, he's added so much to this team already and will get better. Man City will take him to a new level and I think he, Rice and Bellingham will be immovable for the next 2 or 3 tournaments. Imagine he kicks on in the way Rice has... I think Spain have the best midfield in international football largely thanks to the dominance of Rodri but we aren't far off.

I know of a similar type of player to Anderson had a good tournament man city paid big money for him ruined him
Kelvin Phillips

 

[Swaby39]

I know of a similar type of player to Anderson had a good tournament man city paid big money for him ruined him
Kelvin Phillips

Fair point. Time will tell. Early observations are that Anderson looks a far better fit for Man City with much more to his game. I think Phillips was seen as a challenger to Rodri but didn't get a look in. I think Anderson will play from the off and the rest is up to him.

 

[NorthWestOx]

Just watching the rerun of the game.
I missed it last night, but after Kanes penalty, Mexico kick off, and he just dribbles to himself, and then the Ref gives us a free kick.

 

[dickwalton1964]

Fair point. Time will tell. Early observations are that Anderson looks a far better fit for Man City with much more to his game. I think Phillips was seen as a challenger to Rodri but didn't get a look in. I think Anderson will play from the off and the rest is up to him.

Just my opinion but if Anderson is a £130m footballer what are Bellingham and Rice worth ? Without exaggeration, Rice must be worth £175m and Bellingham over £200m - both are on a different footballing planet to Anderson. Tonali has just gone for £100m and to me he's a bang average PL midfielder. This summer is just a mental transfer window for fees.

 

[WE Yellow]

Anderson made our second goal . He is well worth his place; work rate second to none. Plus who’s playing left back if O’R moves into midfield. There isn’t anybody else left footed!

I think he's looked poor on the ball and a fish out of water in that defensive midfield role, but his work rate is fantastic to his credit. Oh for a Luke Shaw or Lewis Hall in the squad.

 

[Common Villager]

I thought it was a really good performance, certainly one of the best England performances at a WC in my living memory.

Our attack has looked so much more fluid against the 'better' sides i.e. Croatia and Mexico, rather than those who have sat deep. Hopefully this stands us in good stead as the tournament progresses.

The defence still looks shaky and I have struggled to work out how sides are managing to find so much space in between our midfield (especially when it's supposedly worth over £200m), but when it mattered the team defended incredibly well yesterday. Again, it might favour us if/when we come against a side who will have more possession and we can be the ones player deeper and attacking on the break.

Eyes feel very heavy today but it was 100% worth getting up for.

FWIW I thought the penalty that Kane conceded was very harsh. Contact in the box ≠ a penalty (at least not always). He definitely caught the player but it wasn't enough to take him down and also their player did not have control of the ball. As always, slowing incidents down or viewing them as a still is incredibly misleading, imo.

 

[Foley]

Wonder if Quansah's suspension will get suspended.

Well no because it is unlikely that Trump will ask for the red card to be 'suspended'

 

[dickwalton1964]

Anderson made our second goal . He is well worth his place; work rate second to none. Plus who’s playing left back if O’R moves into midfield. There isn’t anybody else left footed!

I'm sure Gordon played it out to Kane who crossed it for Bellingham. How far in a build up do you want to go back to credit someone with an assist ? Perhaps Jordan Pickford should claim he makes every goal we score on that basis. Anderson got a fortuitous run of the ball way back in our half but to say he made our second when three or four other players had way more decisive touches further upfield is stretching it a bit.

 

[QR]

Personally I think all the red cards so far in the tournament have been justifiable*, except Balogun's - the Mexican one in the first game was the harshest.....but it was still a purposeful professional foul.....just one where there was probably a covering defender, so it probably should have been yellow.

The Sithole, Muharemovic, Ahmed, Ngoy and Sulaka reds were all no-doubt, last man denying a goal scoring opportunity challenges. The Canobbio red was a last minute "I'm going to ****ing maim someone on the way out" horror challenge (and it wouldn't really matter if you lifted the suspension for that one). The Almiron and Hincapie reds were for covering their mouths while abusing someone (maybe a silly rule, but it is a rule). And Zwane slapped a dude.

Meanwhile, Balogun's contact was purely accidental - he wasn't even looking at the guy he landed on awkwardly.

(*I can't really comment on the second Qatar one, as they never showed a replay in the feed I was watching because the Canadian dude's leg break was so hideous)

Any time a player is unjustifiably sent off for the rest of the tournament, then yes - there is now precedent for them to not serve a suspension.

Doesn't apply to Quansah, sadly. He was just a numpty.

Well, yes, if this was written into the tournament rules from the beginning but FIFA can't just make up new rules mid tournament.

 

[West Oxon U’s]

 

[Steve Gilbert]

Just my opinion but if Anderson is a £130m footballer what are Bellingham and Rice worth ? Without exaggeration, Rice must be worth £175m and Bellingham over £200m - both are on a different footballing planet to Anderson. Tonali has just gone for £100m and to me he's a bang average PL midfielder. This summer is just a mental transfer window for fees.

Go to a game and watch him live, I am sure you will change your mind. He is a brilliant player.

 

[Isle of Wight Yellow]

Tonali has just gone for £100m and to me he's a bang average PL midfielder.

I know you like controversial takes but there’s zero chance Tonali is bang average. He’s classy, cultured, consistently one of Newcastle’s best players even when the side are struggling. He’d get into any PL starting XI, I’m not sure that’s an average player

 

[dickwalton1964]

I know you like controversial takes but there’s zero chance Tonali is bang average. He’s classy, cultured, consistently one of Newcastle’s best players even when the side are struggling. He’d get into any PL starting XI, I’m not sure that’s an average player

ANY PL starting XI ? How come he's joined Spurs then. No top 10 team went anywhere near him.

 

[SirAndyOfCrosby]

Oh goody, another Tim Lovejoy-esque 'who is better - Spurs' Micky Van De Flier or Newcastle's Davide El Pirolo' debate.

Just what this forum needs.