Was Pep our worst ever manager?

[windmill]

I date from your era (and loved Colin Harrington as a kid--my hero!), and surely Arthur Turner has to be ahead of Maurice Evans. Turner got us into the league for the first time and took us up the leagues. Evans inherited us in a great position (of course, he did pretty well for us immediately thereafter).

Maurice Evans resigned with a 20 match winless run and and said it was nothing to do with results. Come on..... Arthur |Turner every time. Courted league teams for floodlit friendlies in 1959 and 1960 just to get known in the football world. After all, who knew the whereabouts of Headington? It was a continuing upward spiral.... I will never forget it. It mapped out the future for OUFC. Long may it continue.

 

[windmill]

And did little else! I cannot recall any of his home games because they were all so utterly bereft of anything.

You'd best see what Robinson achieves. Its the same scenario. Today?

 

[uptheus]

DE at fans forum saying we had a Top 4 budget. Doesn't really help Pep's case.

Darryl saying that must make it true then!

It was also poor timing when Pep came in with a number of the in coming players that Pep inherited had already been chosen by
MApp.

Don’t get me wrong, Pep didn’t help himself, but I still think it was wrong to sack him when we did with no one lined up and then taking as long as it did to replace him which has caused the predicament we’rein now.

Darryl has truly messed up over the last 12+ months, so if the finger really needs pointing then it’s at him, but I thank him for the 2 years period prior to that.

 

[Discoland]

Darryl saying that must make it true then!

It was also poor timing when Pep came in with a number of the in coming players that Pep inherited had already been chosen by
MApp.

Don’t get me wrong, Pep didn’t help himself, but I still think it was wrong to sack him when we did with no one lined up and then taking as long as it did to replace him which has caused the predicament we’rein now.

Darryl has truly messed up over the last 12+ months, so if the finger really needs pointing then it’s at him, but I thank him for the 2 years period prior to that.

I think my issue with Pep is how he changed the culture of the club, and Eales spoke about that too on Friday.

I'm not ITK by any means but I'm aware of Pep basically giving two fingers to the recruitment team and being a bit of a tyrant behind the scenes. We've all seen what happened with the players he's brought in. It wouldn't surprise me if those individuals did change the mood in the dressing room. If you look at our performances early in the season, we were playing some very good football but the insipid performances post September sucked the life out of the club. The entire atmosphere changed, and I think that resonated from the players and the stands at the same time, not just from one or the other. The club felt split as a community and that wasn't really restored until Charlton. I won't even mention THAT game because that in itself was a nightmare.

My number one would still be Rix though.

 

[unification]

I think my issue with Pep is how he changed the culture of the club, and Eales spoke about that too on Friday.

I'm not ITK by any means but I'm aware of Pep basically giving two fingers to the recruitment team and being a bit of a tyrant behind the scenes. We've all seen what happened with the players he's brought in. It wouldn't surprise me if those individuals did change the mood in the dressing room. If you look at our performances early in the season, we were playing some very good football but the insipid performances post September sucked the life out of the club. The entire atmosphere changed, and I think that resonated from the players and the stands at the same time, not just from one or the other. The club felt split as a community and that wasn't really restored until Charlton. I won't even mention THAT game because that in itself was a nightmare.

My number one would still be Rix though.

I’ve heard pretty much the same story about Pep. Too much change, too much hubris and it cost him his job and probably any form of career as a manager in this country.

 

[saddletramp]

How anyone can say that Jim Smith wasn't our greatest manager is beyond me ?
We lost 1 league game at the Manor in 83/84,we lost 1 home game in the league 84/85.
The only team EVER to win league's 3 and 2 in consecutive seasons.
Man City,Leeds,Southampton etc all been in level 3 and never achieved that.

The season we won what is now the Championship,we scored 5 goals in a game SIX times (and 4 goals 4 times)

Arthur Turner was before my time,his achievements were amazing.

But only one manager took us the the top flight of English football.

The Bald Eagle.

 

[Shaun Rice]

Hmmmm I think Pep was the worst manager we’ve ever appointed.
Okay so he had a hard time following one of our best managers ever. He was also appointed very late so his options were limited in terms of players he could bring in. I’m not sure how much budget he actually had - okay so top 10 wage budget maybe but we/he didn’t spend much in terms of fees. But that’s as much defence he’s going to get.

Reasons:
Signing some of the worst pro players I’ve ever seen.
Terrible, laughable post match interviews.
Taking a team so high on confidence and destroying it.
The mini metro worst trainer incentive. Or is that demotivater.
Finally for having his comedy personal social media management company and his @maybepep Twitter account. With it’s unprofessional tweets. Let’s face it not even Pep thinks he’s got what it takes to be a manager!

It won’t be said too many times but for me Pep is number 1 by miles!

 

[Yellowblood]

Pep was undoubtedly a poor appointment. Under Appleton we were progressing each year and there seemed to be a strategy and sense of optimism within the club that we were steadily on the up. This also seemed to be acknowledged by the football world, and allowed us to attract sort after talent (on loan and permanent). Under Pep we have not just halted this progression but made a backward step. I doubt clubs will be as willing to loan us promising players in the future.

I dont think however the blame can fully be on Pep. It's clear he is a good coach, however, his managerial record is poor. The board should have acknowledged this and realised recruitment should be left to a more experienced head. I am not in favour of Head Coach with a Technical Director, but think this would have been more successful in this scenario.

 

[unification]

Pep was undoubtedly a poor appointment. Under Appleton we were progressing each year and there seemed to be a strategy and sense of optimism within the club that we were steadily on the up. This also seemed to be acknowledged by the football world, and allowed us to attract sort after talent (on loan and permanent). Under Pep we have not just halted this progression but made a backward step. I doubt clubs will be as willing to loan us promising players in the future.

I dont think however the blame can fully be on Pep. It's clear he is a good coach, however, his managerial record is poor. The board should have acknowledged this and realised recruitment should be left to a more experienced head. I am not in favour of Head Coach with a Technical Director, but think this would have been more successful in this scenario.

He intentionally ignored the scouts’ reports at the start of the season. He was given a list of 10 players who we could approach similar to what we’ve done in previous seasons but he ignored it to bring his own players in.

You make a good point that the board should have intervened earlier though. Why appoint someone who wasn’t buying into what MApp had built here? From the noises Pep made after joining, I fully expected to see more Ledson’s Nelson’s and Rothwell’s through the door but instead we ended up with Xemi, Tiandalli and GvK. Did he pull the wool over the board’s eyes too?

I think he has had an easy ride from some on here. He was a tyrant behind the scenes and had a fear culture at the club. Just look at the response after the Charlton game from the likes of Wayne Brown and co once they were rid of him.

Worst manager would be a push but one of the worst appointments would be true. Just like Rix did after Atkins, he threw away a winning formula for one that sees us struggling with a more than capable budget this season.

 

[Steve McAvoy]

Agree with a lot of that. Bill Asprey comes into the top 5 for me.

Kemp (with big Joe) may have had to have dealt with Uncle Firoz, but did spend a lot of money on Quinn and Scott from Brentford. Waste of money ...

Bill Asprey should not be neglected in any debate about poor management. I wrote to him after a dismal home defeat (by Chesterfield, I think) to advocate for a change of goalkeeper back to Roy Burton and got a handwritten rant back for my trouble. OK, credit the bloke for writing back but something a little more considered would have been more like it. Rix and Kemp do, however, take some beating, as does Mark Wright.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

I’d largely forgotten about Patto and the ‘Honest Lads’ era. So glad this thread could bring it all screaming back to me

Harsh to include Waddock on the list though. He was poor - but he had to work with a completely spent group of players, was only brought in as a firefighter because Lewis’ position had become untenable, and was pretty much left to keep the lights on as the mostly absent chairman formulated his escape plan...

Whereas Pep......

Was told that he was coming in to boss a great project, only to find within a few weeks that the next owner was already in the building. And the chairman formulating his exit plan was staying during the week with his inherited deputy.

 

[Lundinsponytail]

You must be joking - we have had a number of bosses worse than Pep.

For starters David - ‘It’s not my team’ Kemp, Brian Talbot - sure he was ‘honest’ but I’ve seen more brains in a tin of paint - and Mark Wright - who seemingly presided during a reign of terror.

Some supporters have no perception of our history and have attention spans of gnats. ?

Got to agree with Tim (for once) here. And I would add that it would have been tricky for anyone to take over a side that had just lost - or was about to lose - its most potent threat (Johnson) and midfield kingpin and dressing room leader (Lundstram) for fees that were then not reinvested, apparently because the same inflated market that brought in 3 million plus for those guys also applied to cheaper players. Not many clubs at our level could see 4 million come in and zero reinvested without subsequently feeling the pinch on the pitch.
I strongly suspect that Pep got the job by convincing Darryl that he was the man who could assemble a top 7 side all from free transfers. Thus enabling DE to have cake and eat it.
But....... But.. ..... from the moment I saw the Blackpool away game I knew that we had an incompetent manager on our hands. And, when I heard his post match interview that day, I realised that he was also dangerously delusional. From that game on, we have averaged 1 point per game.
That this happened at around the time when his ideas and strategy should have been bedding down (in a positive way) just shows how poor he was. To coax relegation form from a top 10 budget, notwithstanding the issues with Eales, must place him somewhere in the pantheon of OUFC crapness. But, at the same time, leaving with the club in mid-table is not in the same category as what Patto managed, Talbot or Rix. League 1 (unlike the Conference and League 2) is always going to be competitive for a club of our type, so you would need to do a Kemp to compare to the aforementioned disaster areas.

 

[iambungle]

Shotton?

Proved that bullies finally get sussed out. Great player, poor manager.

 

[windmill]

GVK. Mehmeti, Pekalski, Xemi, Williamson, Obika. I rest my case.

 

[bigdel]

Not sure he was the worse, but his buys were dire . Can someone explain Xemi , Barcelona B must be s**t.

 

[battman]

Not sure he was the worse, but his buys were dire . Can someone explain Xemi , Barcelona B must be s**t.

I think everyone gets enamoured by the 'Barcelona' tag. Last season Barca B were playing in the Segunda Division B, effectively the Spanish third division. And Spain isn't known for the strength of its lower leagues.

 

[unification]

I think everyone gets enamoured by the 'Barcelona' tag. Last season Barca B were playing in the Segunda Division B, effectively the Spanish third division. And Spain isn't known for the strength of its lower leagues.

Pretty much the sum of it.

It’s also a question of culture too. On the continent, play is built around technical expertise but in England you need to marry that with physical robustness. Quite simply, Xemi lacked the athletic side required to cope with English football entirely.

 

[headingtonoldboy]

GVK. Mehmeti, Pekalski, Xemi, Williamson, Obika. I rest my case.

I must take issue with you regarding Pekalski. He hasn't played a first team game yet so how can anyone pass judgement either way.

 

[FalmouthOx]

He was dire. The first few games we played largely were Mapps team playing in Mapps formation and we were still high on momentum. Any chimp could have managed at that time. Losing Lunny and Marv was huge though and we then got hit by injuries so with very little time he brought in his own men who have largely been a disaster. The wage bill must be horrendous. He isnt a motivator, repeated the same mantra every week, made ridiculous selections (dropped Payne for example). He lost the fans and the players and left us in a mess. Probably much more to it and maye didnt get the support and budget promised but we went from exciting to dire within his reign and the season is a write off /survival battle when we were looking at play offs early doors. I firmly believe we should have appointed earlier though. We have a lot of good players who may need convincing to stay. KR will have to sell his dream and its difficult for them to sign another 2-3 yr contract if next year is a disaster. Think Robinson will have to completely rebuild and dont see Nelson, Rothwell or Lego here next year. Pep crashed the bus. Eales and Tiger waited before calling the ambulance. Birmingham will run ok for a few games and then bottom out and get hammered every week. Some people just cannot manage. Wonder if he signs his crocks for them when we release them?

 

[windmill]

I must take issue with you regarding Pekalski. He hasn't played a first team game yet so how can anyone pass judgement either way.

OK. Delete Pekalski, under sufferance, add Tiendalli. Hows that?

 

[Witneyoldfella]

That’s a fair swap I’d say...

 

[Shaun Rice]

Just to add to the list of terrible players brought in by Pep IBR was signed by Pep.

 

[yellowbow]

To be fair I think Obika was identified as a target while Mapp was still manager

 

[Millman]

Despite the fact the clearly DE was hell bent on selling the club while taking back as much money he has invested as he could, I still think we had a really decent budget this year. The hint for this is the fact that we wouldn't activate Ricardinho's contract extension on current terms. Also although we lost Lundstram and Johnson (we had a selling policy do it was always likely one would go) we still had the basis of a decent team left over from MApp. Ok so the money was not reinvested but there obviously was better replacements out there to what we ended up with.

The sad fact was Pep was an awful manager and should be right up there with (Kemp, Talbot, Rix, Wright, etc). He may have faced challenges but he did inherrit the core of a decent team, had a good budget, and did not have to work for Kassam. The sad fact is he blew the budget on awful players, then managed to demotivate the existing talent at the club. He left behind an utter mess.

 

[yellowbow]

Despite the fact the clearly DE was hell bent on selling the club while taking back as much money he has invested as he could, I still think we had a really decent budget this year. The hint for this is the fact that we wouldn't activate Ricardinho's contract extension on current terms. Also although we lost Lundstram and Johnson (we had a selling policy do it was always likely one would go) we still had the basis of a decent team left over from MApp. Ok so the money was not reinvested but there obviously was better replacements out there to what we ended up with.

The sad fact was Pep was an awful manager and should be right up there with (Kemp, Talbot, Rix, Wright, etc). He may have faced challenges but he did inherrit the core of a decent team, had a good budget, and did not have to work for Kassam. The sad fact is he blew the budget on awful players, then managed to demotivate the existing talent at the club. He left behind an utter mess.

It was a strange chapter in our history from the moment he was officially unveiled, several days after his appointment, without a single board member present. Fortunately it’s all behind us now.

 

[Leysboy]

f*****g useless manager. Well out of his depth, and along with Rix and Kemp, Talbot all As bad as eachother.

 

[Mellowyellow]

Kemp and Patterson were the worst by a country mile!

 

[mooro]

This may be sacrilege, but I think the second Jim Smith era was pretty shocking - brought in a bunch of nobodies, put them straight into the team, destroyed any togetherness the squad had (or were building under Patto's brief temp spell), and generated the 2nd lowest points tally of any team from the bottom half between the time he took over and the end of the season, and overseeing our drop from I think it was 14th or 16th when he took over, to 23rd. Had that been anyone else then.....

 

[Millman]

This may be sacrilege, but I think the second Jim Smith era was pretty shocking - brought in a bunch of nobodies, put them straight into the team, destroyed any togetherness the squad had (or were building under Patto's brief temp spell), and generated the 2nd lowest points tally of any team from the bottom half between the time he took over and the end of the season, and overseeing our drop from I think it was 14th or 16th when he took over, to 23rd. Had that been anyone else then.....

That's interesting when Jim took over we had seen better results under Patterson whether that would have lasted who knows (Patterson himself proved a failure later on). The fact is that the whole club was a complete shambles by this point. Kassam had all but wrecked us, then that season cashed in on some good players (Davies) and appointed Talbot who was clueless and was unable to sign a decent striker (Sabin anyone). The squad before and after the takeover was mostly poor or worse. Jim tried to change things around too fast and i think underestimated just how pants we were, a more steady approach like Patterson employed was probably better. The only good thing Jim did at this time was sign Ntoya who showed us what a real striker looked like.

Yes we were relegated but we were also a basket case waiting to happen. It is one thing for a manager to take over a wreck and fail to quickly fix it, but something much worse for a manager to take something half decent a totally wreck it (Rix or indeed Pep). Overall I think Jim's second spell wasn't great and certainly got off to a poor start but not the worst we have had.

 

[tatabanya]

Smith took over, failed to keep us up, and then set what I think was a conference record for matches unbeaten before the wheels truly fell-off and we dropped off top spot and lost to Exeter in the play-offs.

Given the unbeaten run, and that we finished in the top 4 the next season, I don't think that stint warrants mention in this conversation.