FA Cup VAR for or against?

[Gary Baldi]

I think it;s harsh to say lack of trust in officials - everyone makes mistakes in a high tempo environment. I think officials try their best regardless of ability. However in football there are very few "Black & White" decisions. Fouls, including penalties are subjective - put it on a video screen and half the crowd will agree and the other half disagree - that's human nature when supporting and are biased to your team.. IMO VAR should only be used to decide if a goal scored is legitimate. Like a dismissal in cricket if there's no reason to overturn the decision - it stands. Any doubt remains as On Field Referees call.

It is, but we see week on how unbelievably inconsistently games are officiated. I have no trust the officials will get it right, nor that the FA will be consistent either. I think football should keep it at goal line technology because there is no interpretation going on.

 

[Marked Ox]

Just watched an absolute farce of a VAR decision in the Napoli/Bologna game. The ref gave a penalty to Napoli which was frankly a dive. The defender's hand was on the Napoli player's shoulder but there was clearly no push or pull to cause him to fall. The penalty was laughably still confirmed by the VAR official.

Likewise, in the Chelsea game if it had been a VAR game then it demonstrated a large flaw. Hazard was flagged offside when clean through and it was given even though it wasn't. If he had gone through and scored it could then be checked by VAR but as the decision was given it can't be checked. So same situation different result, not guaranteeing the right decision which is the reason for VAR.

 

[OUFCGav]

I think they are saying to they want to go from 96% correct for Elite Group refs to 98% correct with VAR. Is that 2% worth the level of change in the game?
For the technology to work it has to be quick/seamless. The delays to the game of 2mins for the ruled out West Brom goal, and 4mins for the Liverpool penalty (according to read sources, I haven't taken a stopwatch to it) are far far too long (especially as 6 mins weren't added on).
The communication also has to be better. Whoever thought that the referee putting his finger to his ear was good enough in a 50000+ capacity stadium is clearly an idiot. Then to make a small rectangle motion before running off seems pointless. Then for there to be no explanation of what has gone on (especially after such a delay) and why the decision has been made is very strange. Its as annoying as referees not being allowed to say publicly why a decision has been made after the game.

Edit: though of course we now get a non-VAR game (Cardiff v Man City) with the ref & linesman taking an age having a chat about a decision, and then getting it wrong (Silva shot ruled out for offside against Sane).

 

[holdsteady]

As VAR is not in use in every game in the same competitions, it’s a bit of a farce.

I can see it dragging games out by 15 minutes eventually, if you look at Rugby they eventually just refer anything that isn’t nailed on, so night games with extra time and penalties will finish at gone 11, be fun for away fans who have work the next day.

Don’t think Cricket and Tennis are great comparisons as they are sports with a natural break in play after every bowl/point, football is such a fast flowing sport that I can see problems with stopping the game to check if a decision is correct when another team is on the counter.

 

[Marked Ox]

I think they are saying to they want to go from 96% correct for Elite Group refs to 98% correct with VAR. Is that 2% worth the level of change in the game?
For the technology to work it has to be quick/seamless. The delays to the game of 2mins for the ruled out West Brom goal, and 4mins for the Liverpool penalty (according to read sources, I haven't taken a stopwatch to it) are far far too long (especially as 6 mins weren't added on).
The communication also has to be better. Whoever thought that the referee putting his finger to his ear was good enough in a 50000+ capacity stadium is clearly an idiot. Then to make a small rectangle motion before running off seems pointless. Then for there to be no explanation of what has gone on (especially after such a delay) and why the decision has been made is very strange. Its as annoying as referees not being allowed to say publicly why a decision has been made after the game.

Edit: though of course we now get a non-VAR game (Cardiff v Man City) with the ref & linesman taking an age having a chat about a decision, and then getting it wrong (Silva shot ruled out for offside against Sane).

On the Cardiff/Man City game. While it was unfortunate I have no problem with that decision, as that was so so close whether an onside/offside position and the linesman didn't have a frozen picture with a line drawn on it to highlight it. As soon as the offside position was determined by the linesman then Sane was interfering as he was in front of the goalie taking his eyeline and blocking a view of the shot.

As for the time taken, it is once in a blue moon unlike the norm with VAR games I've seen where it is most games and often a couple of times a game.

 

[holdsteady]

My main problem with the Man City game was the bbc commentator not understanding it was disallowed even after the free kick for offside had been taken, not certain how that confused him so much.

 

[OUFCGav]

On the Cardiff/Man City game. While it was unfortunate I have no problem with that decision, as that was so so close whether an onside/offside position and the linesman didn't have a frozen picture with a line drawn on it to highlight it. As soon as the offside position was determined by the linesman then Sane was interfering as he was in front of the goalie taking his eyeline and blocking a view of the shot.

As for the time taken, it is once in a blue moon unlike the norm with VAR games I've seen where it is most games and often a couple of times a game.

I was saying it as much because it took so long to get to the decision even without VAR.

 

[OUFCGav]

My main problem with the Man City game was the bbc commentator not understanding it was disallowed even after the free kick for offside had been taken, not certain how that confused him so much.

i think they a) weren't properly paying attention, b) the ref did a bit of an arc thing with his arm whereby he was initially pointing towards the centre circle before carrying on to vertical for the indierect free kick - apparently at least one Man City player initially started celebrating.

 

[boogaloo]

I'm all for it, but unlike cricket or rugby there is no natural break in play. The solution I believe would be for the referee to refer it to the video official with what he believes is the correct decision, and the video official's role should be for clarification. Give them 15 maybe 30 seconds to make a decision, and if they can't decide, then it should be referee's call, which is what happens in cricket if the ball is just clipping one of the stumps.

Mistakes do happen - that's sport, but they need to be careful not to sending every little thing upstairs and delaying the game by 10 mins.

Also there's no reason the ref can't communicate to the stadium announcer what the hell is going on!

 

[eraser]

Just watched an absolute farce of a VAR decision in the Napoli/Bologna game. The ref gave a penalty to Napoli which was frankly a dive. The defender's hand was on the Napoli player's shoulder but there was clearly no push or pull to cause him to fall. The penalty was laughably still confirmed by the VAR official.

Likewise, in the Chelsea game if it had been a VAR game then it demonstrated a large flaw. Hazard was flagged offside when clean through and it was given even though it wasn't. If he had gone through and scored it could then be checked by VAR but as the decision was given it can't be checked. So same situation different result, not guaranteeing the right decision which is the reason for VAR.

Agree - there is no point in an assistant ever flagging offside with VAR

 

[eraser]

It is, but we see week on how unbelievably inconsistently games are officiated. I have no trust the officials will get it right, nor that the FA will be consistent either. I think football should keep it at goal line technology because there is no interpretation going on.

My advice to you is pick up a whistle and go and try it. No referee goes out to be bad - just like the players don't. Things go wrong, mistakes are made but a player has 10 team mates to bail him out from a f-up - a referee doesn't.

 

[Northstandboy]

Poll added to opening post.

 

[Johnf]

I just hope the idea is abandoned after the trial.
The game is about opinions and controversial decisions by officials is part of what makes the game so entertaining.
Sometimes it goes your way other times it doesn’t but it usually evens out over a season.
The system to determine if the ball is over the goal line or not is fine because it doesn’t interrupt the flow of the game but I think that’s where it should stop.

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

As a football refereee i like VAR. there is apualling abuse of referees, including by many on this own forum who from comments about oxford matches seem to have never read the laws of the game or done the refs course. If we accept the decisions are now correct or at least could be correct under interpretation of the law then surely that is a good thing. Those against VAR i bet would be the first to criticize referees who get it wrong.

 

[eraser]

As a football refereee i like VAR. there is apualling abuse of referees, including by many on this own forum who from comments about oxford matches seem to have never read the laws of the game or done the refs course. If we accept the decisions are now correct or at least could be correct under interpretation of the law then surely that is a good thing. Those against VAR i bet would be the first to criticize referees who get it wrong.

I'm a referee and hate it. That poor assistant who had his decision overruled got more abuse than ever when he flagged for a corner or throw in afterwards. It's only been brought in because top flight football = ££ money ££. It will never be used at grass roots so let the vitriolic prem league fans and managers suffer relegation. I doubt it will ever come in for any leagues below prem because of infrastructure and cost. Pointless and controversial beyond belief.

 

[Gary Baldi]

My advice to you is pick up a whistle and go and try it. No referee goes out to be bad - just like the players don't. Things go wrong, mistakes are made but a player has 10 team mates to bail him out from a f-up - a referee doesn't.

I used to run the line years ago at a very low level. Wasn't easy as players are chronic cheats, but like anything, I tried to be consistent.

Can you explain how the rules are differently interpreted on a game by game basis? I understand that fouls are interpreted differently, but there are times I wonder if we're playing with the same rules at times. Also, how does fitness affect how decisions are made. I do sigh when I see officials barely get out of the middle third of the pitch or get near the boxes.

 

[Northstandboy]

I just hope the idea is abandoned after the trial.
The game is about opinions and controversial decisions by officials is part of what makes the game so entertaining.
Sometimes it goes your way other times it doesn’t but it usually evens out over a season.
The system to determine if the ball is over the goal line or not is fine because it doesn’t interrupt the flow of the game but I think that’s where it should stop.

So goal line technology should be scrapped too?

 

[horseman]

As i said earlier in the thread, Alan Pardew was seen shaking his head after the dawson header was ruled out and still insisted it was the wrong decision after the game.

why the need for all this expense when it's so simple to let the officials do their job and abide by their decision as use to be the case...Punish players who chase after,circle,abuse officials and STOP TV showing replays and always looking for reasons to incite controversy.

 

[Marked Ox]

As a football refereee i like VAR. there is apualling abuse of referees, including by many on this own forum who from comments about oxford matches seem to have never read the laws of the game or done the refs course. If we accept the decisions are now correct or at least could be correct under interpretation of the law then surely that is a good thing. Those against VAR i bet would be the first to criticize referees who get it wrong.

I used to be a referee and I hate it.

 

[MattyGreensLeftBoot]

I'm a referee and hate it. That poor assistant who had his decision overruled got more abuse than ever when he flagged for a corner or throw in afterwards. It's only been brought in because top flight football = ££ money ££. It will never be used at grass roots so let the vitriolic prem league fans and managers suffer relegation. I doubt it will ever come in for any leagues below prem because of infrastructure and cost. Pointless and controversial beyond belief.

Ok actually I would rather we didn't have it (VAR) so long as there was no abuse of referees when they get decisions wrong (which is why i think it has a place). If it stops Alan Shearer on MOTD saying that is obviously a pen or red card and him saying the referee didn't see it. So much of the abuse directed at referees is because pundits don't understand the laws so when they critizise i look at the same foul and say yes I can see where in law the referee could have interpreted that correctly. By having VAR you are removing the referee didn't see it and so now people who still think it is a foul are wrong in law. Referees don't get things wrong in law, you may not interpret the law exactly the same but the referee is still right. VAR means basically every decision becomes right in law pundits cannot say the referee will get it wrong now. You see it on the stands too where fans slate the ref for what looks like two similar fouls but are subtly different. So may people who say those are the same fouls don't understand the laws and how they are written.

I do have issues with this meaning the professional game moves further away from the amateur game. But that already exists I dont get independent assistant referees on hamworthy rec. The grounds wont be bowling green flat on the park. I have no mics to talk to the 4th official, i get a tight hamstring i have to run through it (no spare refs here) and i have no disappearing spray.The top leagues are already different from what used to see on a Saturday and Sunday.

In summary inn an ideal world yes I don't want VAR but we dont live in an ideal world. VAR will make thing more accurate. I think we will get more penalties more sending offs, do i wish we didn't need it and playes not make legbreaking challenges and hope i dont have a perfect angle top be 100% sure he/she is taking an early bath? Absolutely but until we get to the stage that referee crisism isn't part of Saturday night phone ins and MOTD and players don't try to cheat like Mehmetis dives then we need VAR.

Oh yes and thos critisising go on pick up a whistle and visit your local FA instead of moaning about refereeing standards.