General VAR consistency?

Left Wing Cross

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I don't think many people are complaining that VAR is getting offside decisions wrong. They are complaining about the law and the rigidity of the VAR rulings. There has to be some margin for error, similar to the umpire's call in cricket. If a decision is too close to be seen live by the assistant referee, then his/her decision should stand.

The whole law needs reviewing any way, in my opinion. It's become far too complicated in practice. The Wolves decision last week was a prime example.
The laws of the game are not built for VAR. There needs to be changes to make it workable. However, will this create a two-tier system as VAR based laws are attempted to be applied to the rest of the non-VAR world?
 

Briggsy

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The laws of the game are not built for VAR. There needs to be changes to make it workable. However, will this create a two-tier system as VAR based laws are attempted to be applied to the rest of the non-VAR world?
Also a good point.
 

Briggsy

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I guess you'd have to bring in an amendment that says that the official's decision is final, unless VAR is in operation, in which case... blah, blah.
 

Essexyellows

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As I posted on another VAR thread......

"The game is too pacy for VAR. It destroys the flow and excitement.
VAR fits in well with Rugby and works really well with a miked up referee who explains what hes reviewing and why. Having said that the referees in rugby are of a far higher standard than football and the pace of the game is different.
Also works well in cricket, again its an "overall" pace of the game that lends itself to cricket well and the technology works.

A toenail offside at 50 frames a second or whatever doesn`t work.....and then it takes 3 or 4 minutes to review.

Maybe give the team captains limited reviews per match? "

Or, best idea, improve the training and support given to referee`s?
 

MattyGreensLeftBoot

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Or, best idea, improve the training and support given to referee`s?
But that for me is missing the point VAR wasn't brought in because referees make lots of mistakes in Law. I bet the player miss far more shots or missplace far more passes. The problem was always with the players managers and fans not accepting the decision like in rugby. What we need is propper discipline VAR after game you dive 5 game ban even if you don't appeal for it. Any backchat to referee will almost certainly come under the decent by word or action book em. Swear as part of it then red card. A few matches get abandoned because players cant control themselves and too few players on the pitch then that isn't the refs issue. The referees deserve respect and trying to make every decision correct doesn't really fit football or fix a participant /pundit behavior problem
 

ZeroTheHero

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There has NEVER been a sport where every decision is correct. Even cricket or tennis - once the reviews are used up incorrectly there can still be mistakes. Which is why (if we have to have VAR) each manager should have one review per game. They can use it when they like, in any situation - if the challenge is correct (i.e. the officials have made a mistake) they retain the review. If not, they lose it. That would ensure that reviews would only be used when the manager was pretty sure they'd been hard done by (although I accept that sometimes the review would be used in desperation when the opponents scored a last minute goal!). There would be far less of them, and only the 'clear and obvious' errors would be dissected ad infinitum.
 

horseman

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There has NEVER been a sport where every decision is correct. Even cricket or tennis - once the reviews are used up incorrectly there can still be mistakes. Which is why (if we have to have VAR) each manager should have one review per game. They can use it when they like, in any situation - if the challenge is correct (i.e. the officials have made a mistake) they retain the review. If not, they lose it. That would ensure that reviews would only be used when the manager was pretty sure they'd been hard done by (although I accept that sometimes the review would be used in desperation when the opponents scored a last minute goal!). There would be far less of them, and only the 'clear and obvious' errors would be dissected ad infinitum.
The flaw with that is that History shows that when their team did wrong they never saw the incident so they wouldn't know what to be looking for.:)))) Also why the manager? would need be the captain surely?

Mind you they could all learn some discipline and just leave it to the on field officials to do their job
 

ZeroTheHero

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The flaw with that is that History shows that when their team did wrong they never saw the incident so they wouldn't know what to be looking for.:)))) Also why the manager? would need be the captain surely?
Sorry don't understand that! They would only use their review if they honestly thought the ref had made a mistake. They'd be stupid to use it for an incident they 'didn't see'! Manager or captain - it's the principle of limiting the number of reviews per match that is the point.
 
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Essexyellows

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But that for me is missing the point VAR wasn't brought in because referees make lots of mistakes in Law. I bet the player miss far more shots or missplace far more passes. The problem was always with the players managers and fans not accepting the decision like in rugby. What we need is propper discipline VAR after game you dive 5 game ban even if you don't appeal for it. Any backchat to referee will almost certainly come under the decent by word or action book em. Swear as part of it then red card. A few matches get abandoned because players cant control themselves and too few players on the pitch then that isn't the refs issue. The referees deserve respect and trying to make every decision correct doesn't really fit football or fix a participant /pundit behavior problem
100% agreement here. As a fairly regular Rugby attendee the gulf in discipline and respect between the two games is colossal. I also like the post match citing for offences. Tom Youngs found out the hard way after taking a swing at a Wasp`s player, gets reviewed post match, he`s got previous so gets a 4 game ban.
 

dickwalton1964

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Football refereeing in this country is actually very good unfortunately the fans, managers and players aren't that bright enough to understand the laws (note the number on this thread who call them rules they are explicitly laws the ruddy book is called the "LAWS of the Game"). unfortunately now virtually every decision is now correct under an interpretation of the law. people may not like the interpretation but they are correct in law these decisions. Like every decision I as a qualified referee could give it one way a VAR ref might go the other both could be correct under the interpretation of the law. Unfortunately fans players and pundits brought this on themselves by bashing referees (who often refereed at a higher standard than the players play at (especially league 1)) now they have to put the decision through video so some muppet that has never refereed professionally knows they don't have to bother opening their mouth (except they still do). So far every VAR decision i have seen is correct in Law.

That’s your opinion. Mine is that we have the worst referees, across the main leagues, in Europe. Ours are terrible.
 

horseman

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Sorry don't understand that! They would only use their review if they honestly thought the ref had made a mistake. They'd be stupid to use it for an incident they 'didn't see'! Manager or captain - it's the principle of limiting the number of reviews per match that is the point.
I was talking about the number of times in the past that Mangers did not see an incident (conveniently) that involved their players so perhaps not the right people to make the call :)

i still maintain that if players managers etc were made to stop berating officials and just abide by their decisions we would not need crap like VAR..It is they and the media pundits that always wanted to find a reason why it was not a goal/red/yellow etcl or to belittle officials... it is meant to be one of the biggest sports in the world but is fast becoming a circus yet is meant to be so superior that it's deemed fit only for the minority because it's not felt important that Accrington etc have the right decisions made the same as manure etc etc.
 

Sarge

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I was talking about the number of times in the past that Mangers did not see an incident (conveniently) that involved their players so perhaps not the right people to make the call :)

i still maintain that if players managers etc were made to stop berating officials and just abide by their decisions we would not need crap like VAR..It is they and the media pundits that always wanted to find a reason why it was not a goal/red/yellow etcl or to belittle officials... it is meant to be one of the biggest sports in the world but is fast becoming a circus yet is meant to be so superior that it's deemed fit only for the minority because it's not felt important that Accrington etc have the right decisions made the same as manure etc etc.
During his tenure in the Arsenal hotseat, Arsene Wenger was notorious for apparently not seeing incidents....Kind of ironically on the subject of VAR, it seems he is able to see incidents after all, and even is suggesting changes to the offside law .:rolleyes:... link from BBC sport website...

 
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ZeroTheHero

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I was talking about the number of times in the past that Mangers did not see an incident (conveniently) that involved their players so perhaps not the right people to make the call :)

i still maintain that if players managers etc were made to stop berating officials and just abide by their decisions we would not need crap like VAR..It is they and the media pundits that always wanted to find a reason why it was not a goal/red/yellow etcl or to belittle officials... it is meant to be one of the biggest sports in the world but is fast becoming a circus yet is meant to be so superior that it's deemed fit only for the minority because it's not felt important that Accrington etc have the right decisions made the same as manure etc etc.
I do agree that the officials have GOT to get a grip of on-field discipline. For one thing, it has become a tactic - for time-wasting, for trying to get opposition players booked, for trying to get the next decision to go your way, And for another its bloody silly. Although I don't think there is much football as a game can take from rugby union, I WOULD adopt the 'only the captain can speak to the ref unless the ref requests it' rule. I would also enforce the 'foul and abusive language rule' - swear at the ref and it's a yellow card, push/jostle the ref and it's a red.

As said in a previous post, I'd also take the time-keeping out of the ref's hands and stop the clock when the ball is dead. According to this page (https://talksport.com/football/315919/average-ball-play-time-each-premier-league-side-201718-season-171127263506/) the ball is generally in play for less than 60 minutes in a game in the Prem, with some in the past (https://en.onefootball.com/premier-league-saturday-ball-play-minutes/) being below 50 minutes. Blimey....
 

WuTang

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If you want VAR to be used successfully in football, it should only be used for red card situations. Using it for offsides is such utter nonsense it's mind blowing. Using lines and millimetre precision to decide if a toe is offside is ludricous in itself, but when you consider the margin for error in the technology is around the length of a players foot when running at full pace, you really how farcical it is. Pausing the screen between split seconds to decide when the pass has left the players foot can change whether a player is onside or offside, therefore it can be manipulated to suit their preferred decision. It's got the potential to be used to decide football results, scary thought.

Not to mention using it for offsides completely eliminates the joy of scoring, and the emotion that follows seeing the ball hit the net, surely that's the entire premise of football?! Enjoyment?! Why are refereeing decisions outweighing the sheer enjoyment of the game, it's insane.

I genuinely wouldn't mind a ref watching a replay to make a decision on a dangerous tackle or violent conduct, that can benefit players safety on the pitch. But offsides? Get it in the bin immediately.
 
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