VAR- A seperate issue for the game.

#1
I really, really hope that in the 90th minute of the World Cup final, with the scores level, they go to VAR with a match- deciding incident. And can't make their minds up. I want it to take 10 minutes or more, and in that time the TV cameras to focus on whoever in the posh seats is responsible for bringing it in to see the looks on their faces, and when a decision is finally made a mass brawl to break out on the pitch.
I have spent years shouting at the radio whenever that loud mouth Alan Green and his ilk have been demanding VAR.
It will ruin whatever credibility football still has as a live spectator sport.
Football isn't meant to be stop/start, it is 90 minutes of near constant to-and-fro, with contentious decisions being part and parcel of the entertainment during and after the match.
If they persevere with VAR - which they will - it will confirm that football is no longer for the real supporter attending matches but is instead a cash cow for the TV companies, who will probably end up having adverts in the VAR breaks.
 

Yellow River

Active member
2018-19 shirt sponsor for Jamie Hanson
#2
It’s taking the sheer spur of the moment excitement out of the game, something that’s integral to the game, something that separates football from other sports, particularly for the supporters who are actually at the game.

The handball penalty incident last night was a complete farce, how long did it take to make an incorrect decision?
 

ZeroTheHero

Active member
#3
The problem with VAR is when it is used for anything other than matters of fact. I have liked the fact that offside/not-offside goals are sorted out using it, in the same way that goal-line technology looks at facts. As soon as you get to matters of opinion, then it is no better than the referee.

If they keep it at these big tournaments (and I am afraid they will) then I think it ought to be used for matters of fact only - although you could persuade me to allow it to be used to deter 'diving', or cheating as I call it!
 

horseman

Active member
#4
i said a very long time ago long before this VAR was even thought about that all the need to do is stop tv replays and let the officials manage the game.
 

mooro

Active member
#8
I said on another thread - one of the issues as I see it is that when a referee gets a call in his ear to review something, that means that he is under pressure to agree with the refereees in the studio, because of the implied message that they think he is wrong. He therefore has his own judgement clouded by this and more often than not is giving way.
 

ZeroTheHero

Active member
#9
No, EPL have delay it. I believe it will be used in Spain next season.
And that in itself is an issue. Will it be used in European matches? Whether it will or not, it means that the conditions under which the rules are administered is going to be different in different matches (for either the Spanish or the English teams), which surely can't be right?
 

Sarge

Well-known member
2018-19 shirt sponsor for Jamie Hanson
#10
And that in itself is an issue. Will it be used in European matches? Whether it will or not, it means that the conditions under which the rules are administered is going to be different in different matches (for either the Spanish or the English teams), which surely can't be right?
And down at league1 level rules will be different to those the so called big clubs are judged by (eventually). .though its been that way with the likes of kettle for a while
Nowo_O
 
#11
I know it’s hipster to criticise it but I like it.

If it wasn’t for the players shameless cheating, it wouldn’t be needed. With all the diving, simulation, holding, off the ball fouling, stamping and punching is a disgrace, the game is an absolute farce the way modern players “play” it.

If I’m paying to watch football I want to watch actual football not some overpaid t**t trying to break an opponent’s leg on the blindside of the referee then going down like he’s been shot in the face when that opponent gets up and wags a finger at their chest. Its not bloody WWF. Anything that forces them to play the game instead of the referee should be welcomed.

Its shown a few players up. Good.

Its also showing up substandard refereeing, and encourages referees to make more consistent, braver decisions based on the laws of the game rather than the pressure they are being put under by the cheats. Very good.
 

m

Active member
#12
I know it’s hipster to criticise it but I like it.

If it wasn’t for the players shameless cheating, it wouldn’t be needed. With all the diving, simulation, holding, off the ball fouling, stamping and punching is a disgrace, the game is an absolute farce the way modern players “play” it.

If I’m paying to watch football I want to watch actual football not some overpaid t**t trying to break an opponent’s leg on the blindside of the referee then going down like he’s been shot in the face when that opponent gets up and wags a finger at their chest. Its not bloody WWF. Anything that forces them to play the game instead of the referee should be welcomed.

Its shown a few players up. Good.

Its also showing up substandard refereeing, and encourages referees to make more consistent, braver decisions based on the laws of the game rather than the pressure they are being put under by the cheats. Very good.
But you've described the concept not the reality.

Most of the bits in bold are absolutely NOT being picked up by VAR!
 

Gary Baldi

Well-known member
#14
FIFA have not set the parameters correctly, so they've exposed how differently the rules are applied in the most obvious way possible and created the mess of the last 2 weeks. LOL.
 

Robie

Junior Member
#15
It's clearly still in beta.

Everybody needs to get used to what VAR should and shouldn't be used for. I agree, half a dozen referees with access to slow motion replays from every angle asking you to review a decision does imply your decision was wrong. There needs to be more adherence to the principles of rectifying a clear mistake rather than a tiny glance of a hand.

I have seen VAR work really well and also terribly this tournament.
 
#16
But you've described the concept not the reality.

Most of the bits in bold are absolutely NOT being picked up by VAR!
Disagree. There have been lots of penalties for holding at corners. Lots of decisions have been rightly overturned based on what actually happened. Portugal rightly got a peno yesterday because of it, Spain rightly got a late equaliser because of it. Yeah theres definitely issues and improvements needed, and the scope is a big part of that, but on the whole its massively increased the accuracy of big decisions. We will never get 100% of course (Iran), but if it means we get the right decision more often its got to be a good thing.

Knowing that VAR is there also eventually will have a mildly preventative effect which will mean players who realise the games up start playing like the role models they insist they arent but actually are.

It also, in theory, reduces the potential for corruption. It will never negate it of course, but the more officials there are and the harder the evidence for their decision making is, the more difficult it is to unduly influence them.
 

tonyw

Active member
#17
I have to say, VAR in this tournament has been less bad than I feared.
I was worried we'd get multiple five minute delays a game whilst every little jostle and nudge got reviewed. As it is, it's really just been used - what - fifteen times in 36 games?

And most of them have been effective uses. Iran's offside goal against Spain being overturned; nailed on penalties for Peru & Sweden being given; Spain's goal erroneously ruled out for offside being given; and, best of all, Neymar's cheating against Costa Rica being overturned once the ref could see in slow motion that it was actually a massive dive.

Iran-Portugal was, to my mind, the only game that's been ruined by incompetent application of the VAR system. And I think means we're unlikely to see that Paraguayan ref again at the tournament.
 

mooro

Active member
#18
I have to say, VAR in this tournament has been less bad than I feared.
I was worried we'd get multiple five minute delays a game whilst every little jostle and nudge got reviewed. As it is, it's really just been used - what - fifteen times in 36 games?

And most of them have been effective uses. Iran's offside goal against Spain being overturned; nailed on penalties for Peru & Sweden being given; Spain's goal erroneously ruled out for offside being given; and, best of all, Neymar's cheating against Costa Rica being overturned once the ref could see in slow motion that it was actually a massive dive.

Iran-Portugal was, to my mind, the only game that's been ruined by incompetent application of the VAR system. And I think means we're unlikely to see that Paraguayan ref again at the tournament.
The thing is, he had a very difficult game to referee - with two teams intent on pushing the rules etc - and wasnt doing too bad a job on the whole, and to be honest wasnt really helped by the VAR that much in that it introduced doubt into his mind, when he had made a decent decision (eg the Iran penalty).

What needs to be added in is retrospective punishment for clear simulation (eg Neymar) and that will make a big difference once the worst offenders know they are going to be dug out and shamed
 
#19
If VAR cuts out the constant holding/pulling/pushing etc at corners and free kicks and we start to see a return to goals being scored from crosses into the box then that will definitely be a plus point, corners (for example) had stopped being an attacking advantage, not through any great improvement in defensive skills but because of blatant cheating. Look at how panicked defenders are by Trippiers quality delivery from dead balls, they don’t have a clue how to actually defend them other than wrestle with every attacking player as that’s how they have playing, it is cheating and lazy coaching which has led to that.

I think the big change through VAR will be specialist coaches for set pieces, both attacking and defending, as most modern coaches seem a bit clueless, so Dennis Smith could be making a come back.
 

Sarge

Well-known member
2018-19 shirt sponsor for Jamie Hanson
#20
It's a shame the late Charles Hatcher aka Edwin Starr is no longer with us......if he was a remake /revamp of his 70s Motown international hit could be a big hit with football supporters.......VAR !, what's it good for?, absolutely nothing :D:D
 
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