General U23s

Whingit

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What's the point? They never play. What do Sade, Allerdyce etc do day in, day out? Surely we need to enter a league as the next part of developing the youth setup.
 

ZeroTheHero

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Is there a suitable league? In the old days there would have been football combination matches. I have said before that the local(ish) league clubs ought to organise a 'reserve' league. Us, MK, Northampton, Swindon, Wycombe and Luton maybe. Arrange 'home' and 'away' games for each. That would be 10 matches over the course of a season - not too onerous, but would provide a regular run out for players getting up to fitness, U23s, trialists(?) etc, and give some sort of structure to the 'reserve' season.
 

bashamwonderland

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Is there a suitable league? In the old days there would have been football combination matches. I have said before that the local(ish) league clubs ought to organise a 'reserve' league. Us, MK, Northampton, Swindon, Wycombe and Luton maybe. Arrange 'home' and 'away' games for each. That would be 10 matches over the course of a season - not too onerous, but would provide a regular run out for players getting up to fitness, U23s, trialists(?) etc, and give some sort of structure to the 'reserve' season.

Great idea
 

battman

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Most of them are out on loan aren't they? Of the two you've mentioned - Sade and Allardyce - they're the only two not out on loan getting first-team football at a non-league club. U23 setups are costly to run and not always worth it, not being part of a league allows us to schedule matches when and where we want when we have the players available. To have the squad size we'd need to play in a league, you'd be looking at bringing in about 10 extra U23 players purely to make up the numbers, which would be at the cost of around 2 to 3 senior players.
 
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Whingit

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Don't get me wrong, I love the work Dan Harris is doing and the board's commitment to the youth setup. It just seems that once players are too old for the U18s, there's the serious chance of stagnation.
 

ZeroTheHero

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Most of them are out on loan aren't they? Of the two you've mentioned - Sade and Allardyce - they're the only two not out on loan getting first-team football at a non-league club. U23 setups are costly to run and not always worth it, not being part of a league allows us to schedule matches when and where we want when we have the players available. To have the squad size we'd need to play in a league, you'd be looking at bringing in about 10 extra U23 players purely to make up the numbers, which would be at the cost of around 2 to 3 senior players.
Well it's a league in as much as there are 'fixtures' - but the results and league position don't really matter, so you could play some of the U18s, a couple of players on the way back from injury who need some match time, some of the players who regularly get on the first team subs bench but not on the pitch (including the keeper who surely needs some game time) and the U23s who aren't loaned out. Plus any triallists you want to look at. Presumably (because they aren't official matches) players on a ban could also play to keep their fitness up (is that right?).
The 'arranging ad hoc games' thing is OK, but IMO it can mean players not in the first team can go for ages without any action. If ten games a season is too much then just partner up with four other clubs and make it 8 games arranged in advance at regular points throughout the season. That way players have something to work towards.
You are quite possibly right in saying it might not be practical or I suspect it would have already been done - but clubs did manage a full combination league season in the past?
 

Sarge

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At the open Fans forum at the training ground tail end of last year....which was broadcast live on Rad ox (meeting sort of chaired by Jerome Sale) ....which also was on a live online feed (run by the club)....a question was put to to KR on the subject of U23s (who went out of the U23s cup in the first round- last season U23s progressed in U23s cup a lot further) ....there should be some record of KRs reply somewhere 'here' in YF archives?.....

Though it would take someone more savvy with technology type things than I am (especially after working all last night) to locate it?
 

battman

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At the open Fans forum at the training ground tail end of last year....which was broadcast live on Rad ox (meeting sort of chaired by Jerome Sale) ....which also was on a live online feed (run by the club)....a question was put to to KR on the subject of U23s (who went out of the U23s cup in the first round- last season U23s progressed in U23s cup a lot further) ....there should be some record of KRs reply somewhere 'here' in YF archives?.....

Though it would take someone more savvy with technology type things than I am (especially after working all last night) to locate it?

Here's the thread: https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/live-open-fans-forum-17-12-2019.3324/#post-212712
The Ox Mail live feed: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/18107799.oxford-united-fans-forum---happened/

And the specific question:

Q: The under 23s - they're not in a league and they went out in a cup first round. Was that a bad call?

KR: We won't do it (a league) next season.

Most Cat 1 academies will tell you U23 leagues are nowhere near the real game.

We want to play Ox City or Thame to play against men. Then we want to play Aston Villa U23s, Arsenal U23s, etc because we want a variety.

We also want to loan our players out, which you couldn't do if we were in a league.

It allows us to run an U23 team with less of an outlay. All our U23s are out on loan playing men's football and I think that's better for their development.
 

battman

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Well it's a league in as much as there are 'fixtures' - but the results and league position don't really matter, so you could play some of the U18s, a couple of players on the way back from injury who need some match time, some of the players who regularly get on the first team subs bench but not on the pitch (including the keeper who surely needs some game time) and the U23s who aren't loaned out. Plus any triallists you want to look at. Presumably (because they aren't official matches) players on a ban could also play to keep their fitness up (is that right?).
The 'arranging ad hoc games' thing is OK, but IMO it can mean players not in the first team can go for ages without any action. If ten games a season is too much then just partner up with four other clubs and make it 8 games arranged in advance at regular points throughout the season. That way players have something to work towards.
You are quite possibly right in saying it might not be practical or I suspect it would have already been done - but clubs did manage a full combination league season in the past?

Yeah it's been done in the past, but how many football league clubs have done away with their U23 setup because of the pressure to fulfil fixtures? And even if it's a small amount of fixtures in a small league, the club would still be tied down to fulfilling those fixtures. And whilst in an ideal world we'd use players in the first team squad who need minutes, how many times this season have we had to name youth players on the bench? And if we had an U23 game or two scheduled in a busy month like we've just had, then what would we do? We'd be playing these pointless youth games at the detriment to our first team matches when we could've just sent our players out on loan and saved money in the process.
 

Sarge

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Here's the thread: https://yellowsforum.co.uk/threads/live-open-fans-forum-17-12-2019.3324/#post-212712
The Ox Mail live feed: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/sport/18107799.oxford-united-fans-forum---happened/

And the specific question:

Q: The under 23s - they're not in a league and they went out in a cup first round. Was that a bad call?

KR: We won't do it (a league) next season.

Most Cat 1 academies will tell you U23 leagues are nowhere near the real game.

We want to play Ox City or Thame to play against men. Then we want to play Aston Villa U23s, Arsenal U23s, etc because we want a variety.

We also want to loan our players out, which you couldn't do if we were in a league.

It allows us to run an U23 team with less of an outlay. All our U23s are out on loan playing men's football and I think that's better for their development.
Cheers @battman ....thats the one(s)
 

captainox

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They're all out on loan. Apart from Allardyce who hasn't been mentioned for months so may well have left the club.

Once they went out of the cup, it was decided they'd be better playing games at men's level. The final year youth team scholars are mainly out on loan too as part of their development plan.

Kyran Lofthouse - Oxford City
Kevin Berkoe - Oxford City
Nico Jones - Oxford City
Yoav Sade - Braintree Town
Michael Elechi - Gosport Borough
Aaron McCreadie - Gosport Borough
Max Evans - Brackley Town Saints
Jordan Edwards - Brackley Town Saints
Jack Stevens - Thame United
Kie Plumley - Camberley Town
Fabio Lopes - Rushden & Diamonds
Fabio Sole - Rushden & Diamonds
Leon Chambers-Parillon - Rushden & Diamonds
Viktor Milton - North Leigh
 

Foley

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With the reserve leagues disappearing, there isnt the natural way to go from the youth team to the first team.
U23 leagues appear to be not considered adequate as they dont test players out physically/ from a mens experience perspective.
So the loan system is used.
OUFC are trying to bridge the gap. The OP asked what is the point?
I guess that we will see in the next couple of years whether some break into the first team or not.
Other threads have discussed Matt Taylor leaving the club as a youngster as there wasnt an.U23 set up.
 

Scotchegg

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Game against QPR first team arranged for today at the training ground to fill in the gap between games, so whilst we may not have many u23 games there are opportunities for players to get some game time and build match fitness.
 

Sarge

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Game against QPR first team arranged for today at the training ground to fill in the gap between games, so whilst we may not have many u23 games there are opportunities for players to get some game time and build match fitness.


If Id've known earlier Id've popped along to watch & support U23s
 

ljs

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First team v first team as far as I'm aware.
So after having a hectic February of 9 matches, and KR saying that was too many, we now arrange a mid week game when the players finally have a bit of recovery time between fixtures?
 

captainox

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So after having a hectic February of 9 matches, and KR saying that was too many, we now arrange a mid week game when the players finally have a bit of recovery time between fixtures?

It was indicated that a game had been arranged to ensure the likes of Atkinson Kelly and Thorne could get some gametime. Perhaps Woodburn and mous might also feature.
 

Scotchegg

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So after having a hectic February of 9 matches, and KR saying that was too many, we now arrange a mid week game when the players finally have a bit of recovery time between fixtures?

It's probably seen as a better way of getting Ben Woodburn, Liam Kelly, George Thorne, Mous, Jamie Hanson etc game time, than it is to have training alone.
 

Scotchegg

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Also, Matty Taylor, Josh Ruffels and others have spoken about preferring to play Saturday-Tuesday so it can keep everyone sharp. At this stage of the season, training is more about maintenance and protecting players which is why semi-competitive games are usually more effective.
 

Left Wing Cross

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First team v first team as far as I'm aware.

Doesn't U-23's limit the number of over-23's that can play? Possibly 3?

If they declare that it is not an U-23's match then Thorne, Kelly, Mous, Hanson (plus any others can play) and fill out the rest of the team with U-23's?
 

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