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[Marked Ox]

Appears is the operative word!

Provide evidence to back up your claim, not just innuendo?

 

[Gary Baldi]

Provide evidence to back up your claim, not just innuendo?

Clearly it bothers you that I'm not a fan of Khan and I can waste hours rebutting it all to get the last word in, but as I've come to realise, you'll just ignore the bits you don't like or don't fit your world view, and complain about something else. I am happy to agree to disagree, as I always have been.

For example, how did Cross Rail run to time and budget under Boris Johnson, but overrun on those items when Khan came to office?

Your move.

 

[Marked Ox]

Clearly it bothers you that I'm not a fan of Khan and I can waste hours rebutting it all to get the last word in, but as I've come to realise, you'll just ignore the bits you don't like or don't fit your world view, and complain about something else. I am happy to agree to disagree, as I always have been.

For example, how did Cross Rail run to time and budget under Boris Johnson, but overrun on those items when Khan came to office?

Your move.

Lovely, you talking about missing the bits you don't like and complain about something else, especially as you did it in this comment!

You made a major insinuation about Khan and the VRC so it is up to you to provide evidence especially as I have provided links to evidence that your claims were wrong ("hostile environment" and your claims Labour started it, Khan doing nothing about Knife crime etc).

 

[Gary Baldi]

Lovely, you talking about missing the bits you don't like and complain about something else, especially as you did it in this comment!

You made a major insinuation about Khan and the VRC so it is up to you to provide evidence especially as I have provided links to evidence that your claims were wrong ("hostile environment" and your claims Labour started it, Khan doing nothing about Knife crime etc).

Hostile Environment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43835664

Immigration: Hostile Environment - Thursday 14 June 2018 - Hansard - UK Parliament

Hansard record of the item 'Immigration: Hostile Environment' on Thursday 14 June 2018.

hansard.parliament.uk

I fully expect the Minister to repeat a point she made to me in a Written Parliamentary Question: that the term “hostile environment” originated during Alan Johnson’s tenure as Home Secretary. Maybe it did, maybe it did not, but the really important point is what that term came to mean when it was elevated to become a policy that had to be delivered with the careful precision that Mrs May has made her trademark

Key elements of the compliant environment policy were put in place by the Opposition when in office, and it was during that time that the policy was described by Ministers as a hostile environment against illegal immigration. I am happy to answer the question from the noble Lord, Lord Parekh: that is when it started. I am happy to confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, that Alan Johnson used the term “hostile environment” and that the term was used by the Immigration Minister Phil Woolas in 2010 in his strategy paper on immigration, following a similar strategy paper in 2005. So the term has been used, and noble Lords have made the point that we can all go back and blame various different people for it, but the current Home Secretary has made clear that it is a term that he does not want to use and that the term “compliant environment” better reflects our values as a country, ensuring that fair rules are properly upheld

 

[Gary Baldi]

Lovely, you talking about missing the bits you don't like and complain about something else, especially as you did it in this comment!

You made a major insinuation about Khan and the VRC so it is up to you to provide evidence especially as I have provided links to evidence that your claims were wrong ("hostile environment" and your claims Labour started it, Khan doing nothing about Knife crime etc).

Thing is, you make insinuations about Trump or whatever, get a factual reply and some of us let it lie for the sake of this place. I let it go about anti-semitism (when I was right), I've let other stuff go too. I mentioned hostile environment months ago, provided proof and you ignored it.

Knife crime - Khan got the stats wrong recently.

Sadiq Khan confronted with police stats but claims London safer

LONDON Mayor Sadiq Khan left GLA Tory leader Gareth Bacon astonished as he claimed London was now a "safer" place than it used to be before he took office, despite Metropolitan Police statistics pointing at staggering increased levels of crime in the capital.

www.express.co.uk

Sadiq Khan shamed for failure to respond to London knife crime wave

SADIQ KHAN was blasted for failing to adopt new regulation to clamp down on violent crime across London and ignoring recommendations to help protect Londoners and members of the Police force.

www.express.co.uk

Sadiq Khan's inaction on knife crime is matched only by his boundless vanity

As knife crime engulfs the capital, a grim ritual is enacted after each new atrocity.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Sadiq Khan’s approach to tackling violent crime in London won’t work – LabourList

Recent reports that London’s homicide rate has surpassed that of New York sparked debate. Some said the high murder rate was caused by social media and…

labourlist.org

London mayor Sadiq Khan rolls his eyes during knife crime debate

The London mayor claimed he had done 'as much as I am allowed to do under the law' to tackle the scourge of knife crime by setting up a £45million youth fund and raising council taxes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Why has Khan historically refused to part in debates on Knife Crime, takes responsibility for it, but blames the Govt?
Why has Khan refused to debate certain media outlets and only appeared when pressured?

 

[Gary Baldi]

Oh, and

Sadiq Khan blasted for 'breaking promise' to tackle bloodshed in London

SADIQ KHAN was under fire last night after his flagship plan to tackle soaring bloodshed in the capital was dramatically scaled back. The London Mayor had promised that the £6.8million Violence Red…

www.thesun.co.uk

Mayor in cronyism row over his choice for new gangs czar

Sadiq Khan was today accused of cronyism and “jobs for mates” after appointing the Labour leader of Lambeth council as his violent crime czar.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[Marked Ox]

Hostile Environment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43835664

Immigration: Hostile Environment - Thursday 14 June 2018 - Hansard - UK Parliament

Hansard record of the item 'Immigration: Hostile Environment' on Thursday 14 June 2018.

hansard.parliament.uk

Thank you for an interesting read.

On the 1st paragragh, Cameron and May have lfted a phrase and used it for a policy name.

You missed out an important bit before the 2nd paragraph you quote:

"It remains the case that the public expect us to enforce immigration laws approved by Parliament as a matter of fairness to those who abide by the rules. A recent YouGov poll showed that 71% of the public support our policy of requiring people to show documents to prove their entitlement to be here, work, rent a flat or access services and benefits. These measures have been introduced over many years. The first NHS charges for overseas visitors were introduced in 1982. The right-to-work checks were introduced in 1987, not 2014 as the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said. The Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 and the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 introduced restrictions on accessing benefits, social housing and social services. To return to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Parekh, we have to clamp down on people who are here illegally".

It isn't a surprise legislation builds on past legislation as this demonstrates going back a long way. It isn't unique as it is the case in other areas of Govt Policy as well

From your link, these have it as a Tory Policy coming into effect, including a Tory:

Lord Suri (Con)

"My Lords, I am glad that time has been set aside for this debate, for unless something is done it is likely to affect many of those whom I care for.

Under the previous Home Secretary, now Prime Minister, the hostile environment came into effect. This brought stricter checks into many more spheres of public life to make it harder to continue to live in this country without the right to do so. The policies enacted put stricter responsibilities on a range of private sector actors. For example, universities and landlords have found themselves in the unfortunate position of having to carry out checks on their tenants and students to check that they are here legally. But this approach did not stop there.

Public sector bodies were all caught up in the net. Institutions, from schools to hospitals, found themselves having to collect and share data on individuals accessing those services. Checks are also carried out on those seeking a state pension or other benefits. The trouble is that this approach has a fundamental flaw. It has the nefarious effect of acting against people who have been here for an extended period, who have full residency and employment rights."

Lord Morris of Handsworth

"The problems began when a new immigration Act was passed in 2012 which required people to have documentation to prove they were here legally in order to work, rent a property or access benefits, including healthcare. Employers, landlords, GPs, hospitals and banks were all required to check that employees, tenants, patients and customers had proper authority to be in the UK."

 

[Marked Ox]

Thing is, you make insinuations about Trump or whatever, get a factual reply and some of us let it lie for the sake of this place. I let it go about anti-semitism (when I was right), I've let other stuff go too. I mentioned hostile environment months ago, provided proof and you ignored it.

Knife crime - Khan got the stats wrong recently.

Sadiq Khan confronted with police stats but claims London safer

LONDON Mayor Sadiq Khan left GLA Tory leader Gareth Bacon astonished as he claimed London was now a "safer" place than it used to be before he took office, despite Metropolitan Police statistics pointing at staggering increased levels of crime in the capital.

www.express.co.uk

Sadiq Khan shamed for failure to respond to London knife crime wave

SADIQ KHAN was blasted for failing to adopt new regulation to clamp down on violent crime across London and ignoring recommendations to help protect Londoners and members of the Police force.

www.express.co.uk

Sadiq Khan's inaction on knife crime is matched only by his boundless vanity

As knife crime engulfs the capital, a grim ritual is enacted after each new atrocity.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Sadiq Khan’s approach to tackling violent crime in London won’t work – LabourList

Recent reports that London’s homicide rate has surpassed that of New York sparked debate. Some said the high murder rate was caused by social media and…

labourlist.org

London mayor Sadiq Khan rolls his eyes during knife crime debate

The London mayor claimed he had done 'as much as I am allowed to do under the law' to tackle the scourge of knife crime by setting up a £45million youth fund and raising council taxes.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Why has Khan historically refused to part in debates on Knife Crime, takes responsibility for it, but blames the Govt?
Why has Khan refused to debate certain media outlets and only appeared when pressured?

I provide links for Trump and have done numerous times, as have others. You seem to be mixing me up with somebody else about anti-semitism as Labour clearly have an appalling problem with it and a leadership that seem absolutely intent on not facing it. I've let plenty of your stuff go as well.

So the majority of them are talking about a joined up approach to the problem, that is exactly what the VRU approach is as demonstrated by Glasgow.

Here is the make up of the VRU:

Who is in the Violence Reduction Unit?

Meet the specialists working together to tackle violent crime in London.

www.london.gov.uk

It includes Representatives from the Police, the NHS, London Local Councils, 30% from local community/charity leaders, Probation Service etc, which looks pretty across the board for me for the areas needing joined up working. Now it is a case for the time needed for policies to be formulated and filter through.

 

[Gary Baldi]

As I said, the hostile environment started under Labour. I left no comment about afterwards. Labour were the ones that decided to destroy the Windrush landing cards in 2009. This has been a multi-party muck up. The Tories have their part to own, I don't doubt it.

Does it concern you that the VRU is led by a Labour crony on a 6 figure salary who has no experience in a critical role and has the dubious distinction of gun crime rising in Lambeth under their leadership? Does it concern you how the job spec was written and the interviews that were done? Or the salary when the Mayor is crying about no money?

Equally, the VRU has been going for nearly a year, and what have they achieved? Crime is down in London, but knife crime is up.

I don't recall seeing any Trump links, and certainly not recently. Are you thinking of the right forum? I've seen innuendo and insinuation, but nothing more than that.

I see Trump is being criticised for not killing 150 people in response to the drone being shot down. How mental is that? I'm happy he bottled it and didn't rise to the bait from Iran. For a man who it has been assumed would start World War 3, he's reluctant to do it, unlike his predecessor or election opponent.

 

[Marked Ox]

As I said, the hostile environment started under Labour. I left no comment about afterwards. Labour were the ones that decided to destroy the Windrush landing cards in 2009. This has been a multi-party muck up. The Tories have their part to own, I don't doubt it.

Does it concern you that the VRU is led by a Labour crony on a 6 figure salary who has no experience in a critical role and has the dubious distinction of gun crime rising in Lambeth under their leadership? Does it concern you how the job spec was written and the interviews that were done? Or the salary when the Mayor is crying about no money?

Equally, the VRU has been going for nearly a year, and what have they achieved? Crime is down in London, but knife crime is up.

I don't recall seeing any Trump links, and certainly not recently. Are you thinking of the right forum? I've seen innuendo and insinuation, but nothing more than that.

I see Trump is being criticised for not killing 150 people in response to the drone being shot down. How mental is that? I'm happy he bottled it and didn't rise to the bait from Iran. For a man who it has been assumed would start World War 3, he's reluctant to do it, unlike his predecessor or election opponent.

The ones accusing of cronyism are political opponents, well blow me down with a feather, who would have guessed a political opponent making such claims! Labour did exactly same claiming Boris Johnson of cronyism when he appointed Patience Wheatcroft as Head of the Forensic Audit Panel. Also, which one is it, she either has no experience of being in a critical role or gun crime rose in Lambeth under her leadership? As they are contradictory to each other.

Oh and she has plenty of experience of complex situations looking at her roles: https://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/node/5436 and https://en.everybodywiki.com/Lib_Peck. Also, there will be expertise in different areas with all the other partners agencies' representatives (and expertise from below them from within their organisations) involved in the VRU as well.

Again, you really can't grasp that these things take time to formulate and then filter through can you? Amazingly, these projects are long term and don't generally produce instant results. Glasgow's VRU started in 2005 and took 12 years to cut the no. of murders impressively from 137 to 62 as explained here https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691.

And why didn't Boris Johnson do something when he was Mayor of London as knife crime started rising under his watch from 2014 onwards?

Yes, I provided links, you need to look better. Likewise I'm happy Trump managed to keep a clear head with the Iran situation.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Peck has no experience of dealing with knife crime, something I'd think is most key in this as it's such a defined issue? For a 6 figure crony salary, you want someone who is an expert. Frankly, you'd want to poach someone from Scotland wouldn't you?

I grasp the concept very well thank you, it takes time, but are they waiting to gild the lily while kids are still dying on the streets? Khan has been tweeting since January 2018 about the tragedy of knife crime. And where are we? They have a template from Scotland, the lessons learned from Scotland and people to speak to who did it. Scotland have refined the process already. They aren't reinventing the wheel here.

You post the links. I'm not looking for them.

 

[Marked Ox]

Peck has experience in the field as Executive member for Crime and Public Protection in the London Councils organisation and has senior experience in Local Govt. A skill rather useful in dealing at that level with multiple agencies with differing aims and objectives (I again refer you back to the paragraph from NAO NHS Report I quoted earlier on partnership working)

Peck will be managing the process so that the experts from various fields can formulate the policy detail. The giveaway is the make up of the board which has members from all the partners (NHS, Education, Local Govt, Police, Local Community organisations etc).

You clearly haven't grasped the concept of time in this instance based on your answer.

Also why didn't Boris Johnson do something between 2014-2016 when knife crime was going up as the Glasgow model was running then?

I don't need to find the links as I know I did them.

 

[Gary Baldi]

Peck has experience in the field as Executive member for Crime and Public Protection in the London Councils organisation and has senior experience in Local Govt. A skill rather useful in dealing at that level with multiple agencies with differing aims and objectives (I again refer you back to the paragraph from NAO NHS Report I quoted earlier on partnership working)

Peck will be managing the process so that the experts from various fields can formulate the policy detail. The giveaway is the make up of the board which has members from all the partners (NHS, Education, Local Govt, Police, Local Community organisations etc).

You clearly haven't grasped the concept of time in this instance based on your answer.

Also why didn't Boris Johnson do something between 2014-2016 when knife crime was going up as the Glasgow model was running then?

I don't need to find the links as I know I did them.

But has no experience on knife crime whatsoever....... We are paying for Peck to learn on the job aren't we?

I am well aware of time, short term thru medium term goals, etc. You seem obsessed with time though, but whatever tickles your fancy!

If it was that important - as you jab me for - you'd post them. So clearly they aren't.

Have a lovely afternoon!

 

[Marked Ox]

But has no experience on knife crime whatsoever....... We are paying for Peck to learn on the job aren't we?

I am well aware of time, short term thru medium term goals, etc. You seem obsessed with time though, but whatever tickles your fancy!

If it was that important - as you jab me for - you'd post them. So clearly they aren't.

Have a lovely afternoon!

She has experience of cross organisation/partnership working which is an essential part of the process that needs managing as that is a key part. This has been the case of those leading the projects I've actually been involved with across different public sector bodies (Local Authority and NHS). The person in charge was experienced in managing the process and called on others for the detail.

And Peck has experience of crime initiatives as representative for London Councils etc as already linked. Also, the VRU won't only be on knife crime, it will cover gun crime, general gang crime etc just as Glasgow's was.

The expertise for dealing with the detail of the policies will come from the experts who are part of the VRU (Police, Local Govt, NHS, Education, Probation, Charities etc) and feed in the detail from their organisations.

Time is essential in this case as you clearly can't seem to grasp that the timeframe so far would not see results due to the short time the VRU has been operating.

Again, why didn't Boris Johnson do anything when knife crime was increasing from 2014-2016?

I've already answered on the links.

 

[Gary Baldi]

But yeah. Knife crime.... ?

Time is essential, so nearly 18 month one from tweet in Jan 2018 I saw about the "tragedy of knife crime" the issue is getting worse - how long does the Mayor need? The crony and the Mayor, fiddling whole Rome burns. Stop using whataboutism, you (and others) complain about when I do it (irrelevant, avoiding the point, being pedantic, rude, etc) and just ignore it all, so you know the chances of me answering back. None.

I'll wait for those links too.

 

[Marked Ox]

But yeah. Knife crime.... ?

Time is essential, so nearly 18 month one from tweet in Jan 2018 I saw about the "tragedy of knife crime" the issue is getting worse - how long does the Mayor need? The crony and the Mayor, fiddling whole Rome burns. Stop using whataboutism, you (and others) complain about when I do it (irrelevant, avoiding the point, being pedantic, rude, etc) and just ignore it all, so you know the chances of me answering back. None.

I'll wait for those links too.

You clearly don't have a clue. Here's a link which the info below comes from:

How Scotland stemmed the tide of knife crime - BBC News

What can London learn from Scotland's ground-breaking Violence Reduction Unit?

www.bbc.co.uk

It has taken 14 years to reduce homicides from 137 to 59. And London will have greater complexity simply due to size and differing racial make up (and therefore differing levels of trust of the various Authorities). This is also against the backdrop of austerity cutting available resources of the partner organisations.

Boris Johnson is directly relevant as he was in charge before Khan and Knife crime starting rising under him, starting in 2014. So why didn't Johnson do anything?

Anyway I'll leave you to your obsession with a tweet from Jan 2018 and failing to understand the complexity of the problem. ?

 

[Essexyellows]

Around these parts we have what the Police call Persistent Knife Carriers (PKC`s), I asked a serving copper why their lives were not made "difficult".

His response was "harassment & victimisation policies stop that....." .

So there you have it. "Youth" are known to be carrying but, unless they are reported for an incident/offence, then nothing happens.

If it was me they would be getting "disrupted" very, very frequently.

 

[chuckbert]

If it was me they would be getting "disrupted" very, very frequently.

Ironic statement on a forum where the police are frequently criticised for overstepping their powers.

 

[Gary Baldi]

You clearly don't have a clue. Here's a link which the info below comes from:

How Scotland stemmed the tide of knife crime - BBC News

What can London learn from Scotland's ground-breaking Violence Reduction Unit?

www.bbc.co.uk

It has taken 14 years to reduce homicides from 137 to 59. And London will have greater complexity simply due to size and differing racial make up (and therefore differing levels of trust of the various Authorities). This is also against the backdrop of austerity cutting available resources of the partner organisations.

Boris Johnson is directly relevant as he was in charge before Khan and Knife crime starting rising under him, starting in 2014. So why didn't Johnson do anything?

Anyway I'll leave you to your obsession with a tweet from Jan 2018 and failing to understand the complexity of the problem. ?

I don't have a clue because I disagree with you, basically. The reason I recall the tweet is I thought it was June 2019, but when double checked it wasn't. I have no obssession over it, you're obssessed with my opinions!

And if Boris is a bad leader for knife crime (and a bad potential PM as so many say), what does it make Khan? I'll let you ponder that one. What about that!

 

[Marked Ox]

I don't have a clue because I disagree with you, basically. The reason I recall the tweet is I thought it was June 2019, but when double checked it wasn't. I have no obssession over it, you're obssessed with my opinions!

And if Boris is a bad leader for knife crime (and a bad potential PM as so many say), what does it make Khan? I'll let you ponder that one. What about that!

No, because you are ignoring the data, ie. the figures from Glasgow and the reality of how long these policies take to filter to the street/the time lag for results to start filtering through (ie. Youth work, Community based initiatives, Police policies, health policies, finding jobs for people with criminal records, etc etc) as are explained in numerous reports on the results gained in Glasgow.

Oh and I have some experience of cross party Public Sector bodies working together, so even though the situations I was involved in was far less complex, with a far less number of and type of organisations, it took longer than 18 months to get to a point where policies were even being close to be fully implemented.