Transfer News Transfer Window Summer 21

Status
Not open for further replies.

battman

Well-known member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
1,465
If Atkinson is sold for any figure starting with a 1 then that is another example of why we need someone to handle negotiations, rather than it being left to any one of several people, as we’ve been told is the case currently.

Nothing wrong with selling players on, it’s both essential for the club’s sustainability and a simple reality of life at this level, especially if players want to go (which people often forget matters), but a left footed centre back who likes to dribble 30/40 yards with the ball like that, and who is only going to get better, is a real rarity. Doesn’t matter how much he was bought for - that’s not how it works. He’s worth what he’s worth whether he was signed for £500 or £500,000.

Obviously there would be sell-on clauses etc, but 1.6 would be disappointing. He’s worth at least another million quid up front.
I normally agree with you, but I don't think we're on the same page for this one.

I think everyone on this forum tends to over-value our players. If we tried to price out clubs from buying our players then our model stops working as effectively as it does. Does it mean we shouldn't push to get £2m+ for Atkinson? No, but if we price clubs out of deals and are too difficult to negotiate with then buying clubs will go elsewhere and more players will refuse to sign contracts and leave on free transfers.

And let's not forget Bristol City/Celtic/whoever are buying potential too. For as good as he is and how good he can be, he's still only had one season of professional football under his belt. Ideally he would've stayed with us for another season and his valuation could have doubled, but clubs with bigger budgets than ours are gambling on the potential of a less-experienced and less-developed player now in the hopes to save a few quid.
 

battman

Well-known member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
1,465
To those saying 'no we shouldn't sell' and that 'if we're serious about promotion we'd keep him', where have you been for the past 5 years? This is the model, and it's one that's bringing money to the club and ensuring that we're not only avoiding haemorrhaging losses but we're actually in profit too.

It's not like that money disappears either, it gets reinvested either to the playing staff or club infrastructure. If we sell a player then we'll get a replacement, or more likely we'll have already signed them. Atkinson arrived as Dickie's replacement and now McNally is Rob's. When we can't make any money from the stadium we have to use this model.

Karl knew these were the guidelines when he signed up to manage us, and for all my criticisms of his tactical ability and game management, bringing through youth and developing players has been one thing him and the club have been successful at. When we sold Dickie these exact things were floating around, with fans claiming it was the end of days. But guess what? Atkinson stepped up.

Players will move on, it's just the way of third-tier football. And I'd rather we get hundreds-of-thousands if not millions of pounds for them rather than refusing to sell them and letting them go on a free, all for the sake of a gamble on promotion.
 
Last edited:

holdsteady

Well-known member
Joined
8 Dec 2017
Messages
4,074
Because our players don’t attract premier league interest we don’t get premier league prices. Celtic and Bristol City are paupers in comparison to Burnley even. I suppose the real money could end being in the sell on clause, have to hope we put a decent percentage in these deals in case one pays off.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ian

battman

Well-known member
Joined
10 Dec 2017
Messages
1,465
I just think if we keep Atkinson for one more year his value would be a lot more then 1.6m and I don’t think it would hinder his development drastically.
That's fair, but if Bristol City (who have a good track record of giving youth a chance) and Celtic (one of the biggest clubs in the UK) come knocking, do you think Atkinson and his agent would be happy to stay here? One reason why we get players choosing this club over others is our willingness to sell when the price is right.
 

OX14

Well-known member
Joined
11 Aug 2019
Messages
4,319
I just think if we keep Atkinson for one more year his value would be a lot more then 1.6m and I don’t think it would hinder his development drastically.

Not necessarily, he could have an injury next season and be out for a while. You can't go on the assumption that a player will be worth more 6 months or 12 months down the line. If Atkinson wants to move on and we don't accept the offer it could also mean we have a player not commited to the cause. Not to mention it has been our model every season to sell a player, we don't know the ambition of the new owners yet as they haven't spoken.
 

DavidB

Active member
Joined
14 Dec 2017
Messages
448
I just think if we keep Atkinson for one more year his value would be a lot more then 1.6m and I don’t think it would hinder his development drastically.
If the big bucks are on offer he’ll want to go. Wouldn’t you?
 

werthersoriginal

Well-known member
Joined
9 Dec 2017
Messages
8,251
If Atkinson is sold for any figure starting with a 1 then that is another example of why we need someone to handle negotiations, rather than it being left to any one of several people, as we’ve been told is the case currently.

Nothing wrong with selling players on, it’s both essential for the club’s sustainability and a simple reality of life at this level, especially if players want to go (which people often forget matters), but a left footed centre back who likes to dribble 30/40 yards with the ball like that, and who is only going to get better, is a real rarity. Doesn’t matter how much he was bought for - that’s not how it works. He’s worth what he’s worth whether he was signed for £500 or £500,000.

Obviously there would be sell-on clauses etc, but 1.6 would be disappointing. He’s worth at least another million quid up front.
Is that right - we don’t have a proper negotiator? Getting a s**t hot head of recruitment could make make us a lot of money. I hope Karl isn’t involved
 

bazzer9461

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
29,543
Even with a new man in charge with his own ideas, budget going up, you think things will stay the same? What is the reason for the change in ownership then?
The new owners will have paid for the privilege of taking the reins, therefore hopefully a new direction or a little more decisiveness is seen in stadium moves etc is seen.
I would have also thought they would have looked at what change they can bring.
 

Manorlounger

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
5,855
I cannot fault the system whereby we need to sell players to maintain sustainability but, given how precarious our defence is presently (no starting left back, one aging centre half and one babe in arms as back up) I cannot see how the club can entertain the notion of selling Atkinson. In Moore and Atkinson we have the basis of a good defence and team, why allow that to be broken up right at the start of a new season?
Of course, if he, himself, wants away then we cannot stop him, not easily, but surely, holding out for a silly price of £2million plus is sensible?
 

bazzer9461

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
29,543
If Atkinson is sold for any figure starting with a 1 then that is another example of why we need someone to handle negotiations, rather than it being left to any one of several people, as we’ve been told is the case currently.

Nothing wrong with selling players on, it’s both essential for the club’s sustainability and a simple reality of life at this level, especially if players want to go (which people often forget matters), but a left footed centre back who likes to dribble 30/40 yards with the ball like that, and who is only going to get better, is a real rarity. Doesn’t matter how much he was bought for - that’s not how it works. He’s worth what he’s worth whether he was signed for £500 or £500,000.

Obviously there would be sell-on clauses etc, but 1.6 would be disappointing. He’s worth at least another million quid up front.

But you try telling some that and it will come back to we need to sell to survive which means we will never progress.
 

bazzer9461

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
29,543
We have to sell to be sustainable/viable/profitable. We have to sell to show our current assets and anyone we may want to bring in that there is a pathway to the top that OUFC clearly is not currently. The key is that profit is utilised and Atkinson sensibly replaced. With McNally one for the future, we could sign someone further on in their career with less of a ceiling than RA but perfectly competent at L1 level and be a million quid better off. Reinvest half of that sensibly in another asset and bank half, and the club and its model wins again.
And if the alleged now owners are serious about promotion they will have to realise we can’t always sell our best as reinvest and hope. But if that continues to be the model then we will always be a close but no cigar team mid to top half L1 team and nothing more.
 

horseman

Well-known member
Joined
12 Dec 2017
Messages
2,878
To those saying 'no we shouldn't sell' and that 'if we're serious about promotion we'd keep him', where have you been for the past 5 years? This is the model, and it's one that's bringing money to the club and ensuring that we're not only avoiding haemorrhaging losses but we're actually in profit too.

It's not like that money disappears either, it gets reinvested either to the playing staff or club infrastructure. If we sell a player then we'll get a replacement, or more likely we'll have already signed them. Atkinson arrived as Dickie's replacement and now McNally is Rob's. When we can't make any money from the stadium we have to use this model.

Karl knew these were the guidelines when he signed up to manage us, and for all my criticisms of his tactical ability and game management, bringing through youth and developing players has been one thing him and the club have been successful at. When we sold Dickie these exact things were floating around, with fans claiming it was the end of days. But guess what? Atkinson stepped up.

Players will move on, it's just the way of third-tier football. And I'd rather we get hundreds-of-thousands if not millions of pounds for them rather than refusing to sell them and letting them go on a free, all for the sake of a gamble on promotion.
Not necessarily, he could have an injury next season and be out for a while. You can't go on the assumption that a player will be worth more 6 months or 12 months down the line. If Atkinson wants to move on and we don't accept the offer it could also mean we have a player not commited to the cause. Not to mention it has been our model every season to sell a player, we don't know the ambition of the new owners yet as they haven't spoken.
Well their not spending millions to stay bang average League 1 club.

There may be a model but our initial discussion does not have to be sign and we promise not to stand in your way

Every player who joins apparently bought into the ambition of the club among other things and whilst you may get away with it the chances are decreased if you keep breaking up your squad and starting again.

You could reverse it and say the model has failed from the playing side as we've not got above League 1 which is where our aim is meant to be. Of course you cannot guarantee that keeping players would have made the difference but i for 1 would rather see a squad kept together and have a go for 2/3 seasons rather than start from virtual scratch each summer.
 

bazzer9461

Well-known member
Joined
6 Dec 2017
Messages
29,543
I’m not imagining that Bristol City and Celtic’s transfer budgets during a pandemic are stretching much beyond £1.5m unfortunately.
Been reported that Ipswich have 40 million in that case BCFC and Celtics budget would make Ipswich’s budget small in comparison.
 

WRox

Active member
Joined
19 Feb 2020
Messages
209
The same Celtic who are trying to sell Edouard for £20m?
Yep the same, posted a £6m half year loss the other week and couldn’t agree terms with Eddie Howe. Whatever they get for Edouard I don’t think they’ll be slashing big fees on third tier players.
 

oufc1991

Well-known member
Joined
16 Dec 2017
Messages
3,369
I get the model of by cheap sell for a decent profit but in the case of Atkinson we really need to say this summer at least he’s not for sale we can’t lose the whole of the left hand side of our defence that would be stupidity
 

RyanioBirdio

Well-known member
Joined
1 May 2018
Messages
5,296
I normally agree with you, but I don't think we're on the same page for this one.

I think everyone on this forum tends to over-value our players. If we tried to price out clubs from buying our players then our model stops working as effectively as it does. Does it mean we shouldn't push to get £2m+ for Atkinson? No, but if we price clubs out of deals and are too difficult to negotiate with then buying clubs will go elsewhere and more players will refuse to sign contracts and leave on free transfers.

And let's not forget Bristol City/Celtic/whoever are buying potential too. For as good as he is and how good he can be, he's still only had one season of professional football under his belt. Ideally he would've stayed with us for another season and his valuation could have doubled, but clubs with bigger budgets than ours are gambling on the potential of a less-experienced and less-developed player now in the hopes to save a few quid.
If we were talking 3-4m I would agree, but I think 2-2.5 is more than reasonable for a player at a premium. A left footed CB with that much potential does carry a premium that I think we should push for.

I was one of the first people to say that Dickie wouldn’t fetch anywhere near what people wanted when they said they wanted 4/5m, that a million quid for a keeper in Stevens was probably unlikely, and that I think we would be lucky to get more than a million for Brannagan to boot. I’m very realistic with what players are worth, but I do think we need to be more ambitious with Atkinson. Will we get 3m or more for him? Probably not, although League One centre backs have gone for that in recent years. Could we get 2, maybe 2.5? I think that’s realistic.

I feel that it would be disappointing if he went, and if in doing so it was for a fee around the 1.5 mark, but I guess all we can do is wait. I do agree with you though that fairly often there is unrealistic expectation on value.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads


Top Bottom