Tomorrow's press conference

Colin B said:
So despite Charlie replying to several posts since my post of earlier this morning, he still has not acknowledged the fundamental point I made (that there has not been a cult of supporting Darryl at all costs within OxVox), not acknowledged my post, and continued to trot out the same mantra in some of his posts this morning.

All the time while portraying himself as the victim and asking for conciliation from those he's denigrating.

Tell you what Charlie, acknowledge my post and agree that it's fair, stop the stupid references to "moonie like cults" and that might be a useful first step, as from where I'm sitting nothing's changed.

All of the above with apologies to those of you who must be sick of this, but try sitting there reading this s**t and lies about yourself day after day and you might have an idea how I/we feel. Like DSW above I post much less frequently now for similar reasons.
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that you

Sorry, Colin, honestly didn't see your post. Quite happy to agree that in person you are not some slavish supporter of Darryl. Indeed, in person I have always found you to be a smart, engaging guy. I'm a fan of yours!!

In terms of where OxVox ended up on Darryl, my personal view is that he pushed the committee into too cosy a relationship, as it was either that or "be cast into the darkness". So - just my view - in the end too much independence was traded for too little influence. I'm sure that you will argue that the influence was worth it and that that influence achieved more than would have been the case by standing back. Such a strategic disagreement can surely be held as a 'Agree to disagree' line.

I can entirely see how and why it happened - and, I have to say, when I have been advising people in Darryl's position I have advised them to smother potential independent critics in a warm embrace because it means that one can then act without fear of public criticism.

Personally (and I am nothing more than a member) I would be a bit more strident in my criticism on the way in which the Tiger engagement was handled, because once the questions weren't answered then you were beholden to nobody other than just being transparent to your members that questions weren't being answered and that that concerned you. The participation in a hagiographical club press release was - again, strictly my view - an error of judgement, as it appeared that OxVox was lending its support to both the takeover and to what was a pretty gratuitously self-serving piece of egotism and obfuscation on Darryl's part. But I'm happy to concede that you might see things differently, even after that awful press conference....

In terms of the Darryl cult, to be honest I have never accused you of that (and if I have, I apologise)! It's not even OxVox committee members mostly. It is those who leap like scalded cats the moment even the smallest criticism of the man is ever entered. "The best chairman we've ever had" - "has totally rebuilt the club" - "we are further forward in every possible way". When bronze idols are made, the feet of clay are just waiting to become apparent. He did a good thing for two years in backing Ashton's plan with hard cash, and then not sacking Appleton. But, in my view, his executive chairmanship (the last two years) has been really poor across almost every area, and both he and the club would have merited from some serious questioning along the way. I really fear that Tiger has been sold a Potemkin Village and that we are in for a rocky ride as a result of that.

All in the best interests of the club, of course!
 
Well I’m sure that Oxvox AGM is soon so maybe it would be best for all concerned to refrain from all this bitterness and work together. Those that feel that Oxvox have mishandled this situation will have the opportunity to put their names forward for election to the Oxvox committee within the next couple of months. If Charlie and Myles feel that they have such strong opinions maybe they should stand for election to the committee. Come on let’s try and find common ground, it should not be difficult as most fans have concerns (large or small) about what the future will be under new ownership.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
Colin B said:
So despite Charlie replying to several posts since my post of earlier this morning, he still has not acknowledged the fundamental point I made (that there has not been a cult of supporting Darryl at all costs within OxVox), not acknowledged my post, and continued to trot out the same mantra in some of his posts this morning.

All the time while portraying himself as the victim and asking for conciliation from those he's denigrating.

Tell you what Charlie, acknowledge my post and agree that it's fair, stop the stupid references to "moonie like cults" and that might be a useful first step, as from where I'm sitting nothing's changed.

All of the above with apologies to those of you who must be sick of this, but try sitting there reading this s**t and lies about yourself day after day and you might have an idea how I/we feel. Like DSW above I post much less frequently now for similar reasons.
Click to expand...
that you

Sorry, Colin, honestly didn't see your post. Quite happy to agree that in person you are not some slavish supporter of Darryl. Indeed, in person I have always found you to be a smart, engaging guy. I'm a fan of yours!!

In terms of where OxVox ended up on Darryl, my personal view is that he pushed the committee into too cosy a relationship, as it was either that or "be cast into the darkness". So - just my view - in the end too much independence was traded for too little influence. I'm sure that you will argue that the influence was worth it and that that influence achieved more than would have been the case by standing back. Such a strategic disagreement can surely be held as a 'Agree to disagree' line.

I can entirely see how and why it happened - and, I have to say, when I have been advising people in Darryl's position I have advised them to smother potential independent critics in a warm embrace because it means that one can then act without fear of public criticism.

Personally (and I am nothing more than a member) I would be a bit more strident in my criticism on the way in which the Tiger engagement was handled, because once the questions weren't answered then you were beholden to nobody other than just being transparent to your members that questions weren't being answered and that that concerned you. The participation in a hagiographical club press release was - again, strictly my view - an error of judgement, as it appeared that OxVox was lending its support to both the takeover and to what was a pretty gratuitously self-serving piece of egotism and obfuscation on Darryl's part. But I'm happy to concede that you might see things differently, even after that awful press conference....

In terms of the Darryl cult, to be honest I have never accused you of that (and if I have, I apologise)! It's not even OxVox committee members mostly. It is those who leap like scalded cats the moment even the smallest criticism of the man is ever entered. "The best chairman we've ever had" - "has totally rebuilt the club" - "we are further forward in every possible way". When bronze idols are made, the feet of clay are just waiting to become apparent. He did a good thing for two years in backing Ashton's plan with hard cash, and then not sacking Appleton. But, in my view, his executive chairmanship (the last two years) has been really poor across almost every area, and both he and the club would have merited from some serious questioning along the way. I really fear that Tiger has been sold a Potemkin Village and that we are in for a rocky ride as a result of that.

All in the best interests of the club, of course!
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obfuscation, Potemkin, hagiographical [emoji15]. Come on play fair, at least I could argue against little dave, as I knew what the f**k u were going about [emoji6]
 
The difficulty though is when many on here have worries about Tiger that somehow in some cases it leads to comments of Daryl sold out for the best interest of himself so whether intended or not it does come across as an attack on Daryl without evidence to back it up...Only one person knows the reason a deal was struck with Tiger and unless you've got Daryl's ear and he yours you'll never know any different than what you've read....
Last year we had a near you must be Daryl or Oxvox situation on our forum and then like now sensible debate flies out the window...
People have been critical of Tiger this week based on evidence at an awful press conference and subsequent factual content released by a potential manager we had approached..None of it is personal and in my own view it's based solely a missed opportunity to engage with the fans, have a rally cry to united us all and show he can be the right man to take our club to the next level...That we know no more today than we did before the takeover is not the fault of past regimes, the press officer or Oxvox.
 
Colin B said:
Before anything written here becomes assumed as fact, as seems to be the way of this forum, I must refute one thing that you say Charlie.

Now this is me speaking on my own behalf, not on behalf of OxVox, but I have never been 100% pro Darryl, nor 100% against Darryl. I am not 100% pro Tiger, nor am I 100% against Tiger. I will not argue that black is white just to suit an agenda. Anyone who knows me will agree with this. I object to being portrayed in this way, as it is a lazy stereotype.

I'm sure my colleagues on the OxVox committee will answer for themselves, if they wish to, but I'm pretty sure you'd find they hold a similar view to me.
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Looks like you are a "hummer and harrer".....or perhaps a "fence sitter".
 
Dave T said:
I’ve ,i hope u will agree stuck to my word and not got involved, as Actually it’s always been my belief that the club is stronger when the fans are united, I’ve argued many time at terms like day trippers, or your in my seaters. It really doesn’t matter who u are how often u go. If u choose to sing/not sing. Sit/stand. Have a positive outlook or negative. We’re all still Oufc fans and want the best from them (maybe not kip) So while we have seemed to have sorted issues between us may I suggest a softening of ur approach on Darryl and Oxvox. We know ur views, some agree some don’t, but taking sly digs at either in nearly every post just comes across bitter weather u mean it or not, and then provokes a reply. Like u say Oxvox has a role to play on the future of the club and Darryl has moved on, like maybe everyone else should
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I think that maybe a coming together would be best achieved by both 'sides' compromising their hitherto rather over-proud positions.

So, perhaps:
Me (and others): I can see why OxVox tried to stay close to Darryl, and appreciate they felt it was in the best interests of the club. And maybe it was, in ways that we will never know (because maybe bad stuff was prevented from happening). I also appreciate that if the fans are going to be united then too much 'noise off' is unhelpful.
OxVox: We can see that the relationship between chairman and OxVox involved rather too a high degree of secrecy for comfort - that was the price we had to pay to have any kind of a relationship with a rather difficult man. Going forward, though, we aspire to be a rather more obviously independent check on those in power and represent members concerns with openness and transparency.'

I think that something like that would offer a way forward for everyone. If I sit here and say that I'm going to carry on smashing OxVox'S links with DE then they are going to be on the defensive. But if they honestly believe that that is the optimal way for a Trust to carry on, and intend to pursue the same tactics with Tiger and co, then I fear that (polite disagreement) is going to follow.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
No

.
No. I was not entirely against. You are buying into his Manichean world view. I have many times on here extolled his virtues: he stuck hard cash on the line in the first two years, and stuck by Appleton when many would have pulled the trigger. These are pretty major things and laid the foundation for three years of success.
But although I have always acknowledged these things, that is never enough for his boosters. Unless you repeat, Moonie style, 'best chairman we ever 'ad, that Mr Eales' then (as per your rather typical post) then you are 'fully against'.
It has been a zero criticism, zero questioning culture (culminating in that awful press release, designed entirely to big DE up) and the chickens are coming home to roost on that bizarre cultish culture.
I am open-minded on Tiger and - like Dave - am waiting to judge the actions, or lack thereof. But please God let us not again degenerate into demeaning worship. Firm, courteous, persistent questioning should be the order of the day. And a red flag raised if those questions are ignored.
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I never said you were. Whose manichean view of the world is it? I'm a bit lost on that one.

Other than a very small (and importantly vocal) minority of fans at the end of either spectrum, I cannot say I recall seeing significant amounts of fans be so broadly and firmly black and white on DE as I think you believe there are. I think DE fumbled away the takeover and manager appointment in a massive way, and has slightly stitched up Tiger with that mess as a consequence.

But... Take a step back and the club has broadly improved on where it was 5 to 10 to 15 to 20 years ago, and some of that has taken place in the last few years. For one, the club having a proper training ground is such a massive step forward to the long term sustainability of it.

As a generic point at no one in particular, OxVox may not be to everyone's taste, but without them, we'd be a lot worse off as fans.
 
Lundinsponytail said:
I think that maybe a coming together would be best achieved by both 'sides' compromising their hitherto rather over-proud positions.

So, perhaps:
Me (and others): I can see why OxVox tried to stay close to Darryl, and appreciate they felt it was in the best interests of the club. And maybe it was, in ways that we will never know (because maybe bad stuff was prevented from happening). I also appreciate that if the fans are going to be united then too much 'noise off' is unhelpful.
OxVox: We can see that the relationship between chairman and OxVox involved rather too a high degree of secrecy for comfort - that was the price we had to pay to have any kind of a relationship with a rather difficult man. Going forward, though, we aspire to be a rather more obviously independent check on those in power and represent members concerns with openness and transparency.'

I think that something like that would offer a way forward for everyone. If I sit here and say that I'm going to carry on smashing OxVox'S links with DE then they are going to be on the defensive. But if they honestly believe that that is the optimal way for a Trust to carry on, and intend to pursue the same tactics with Tiger and co, then I fear that (polite disagreement) is going to follow.
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So we have to follow your tune because you don't want your dirty washing aired and it has to be on your terms as well.
 
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