Time wasting - Persistent, deliberate & obvious - Referee's options

#1
Yesterday's 2nd half was full of deliberate and "plain to see" time wasting by Bradford. I doubt the ball was in play for no more than 20 minutes (even allowing for 8 minutes added time). This was taking "game management" to the limits. What options does the referee have. Whilst one incident in itself was nothing to get excited about but when it is persistent, deliberate and obvious then surely the ref has to take some action. Yesterday included:-
The goalkeeper telling the ball boys to stop throwing the ball back to him
GK taking more than 6 secs to release the ball (albeit this is quite common)
GK faffing over the goal kicks
Throw-ins, one player walking over to take it, gets to the ball then decides another player should take it.
Substitutions - Player walking off stops to shake hands with colleagues and then stops to pull up his socks
Free kick for goalie to take, but the centre forward carries the ball to the half way line.
Free kicks, deliberately stopping the ball from getting to the place where it is to be taken from
Standing 6 inches in front of opposition free kicks. One free kick Eastwood took, hit Bradford player 5 yards away, ref merely requested it is retaken.
Injuries, receiving treatment for a very long time but appears to be 100% ready to come back into play.
Player sent off - Not leaving the field of play immediately.
Not taking the free kick from incident knowing the ref will ask for it to be moved.
I could go on and on and on and on. When can the ref start booking players, ie to go up to pretend to take a throw in, pick up the ball but then put back on ground for another player to come over and take it is hardly a bookable offence, but time after time it then becomes a joke.
Any referees out there? What is the guidance?

PS If we were bottom of the league and winning I would hope we would do the same!!!!!???????
 

Sarge

Well-known member
2018-19 shirt sponsor for Jamie Hanson
#2
the FA employ a number of substandard referees who appear , in the main to be incompetent week in week out, yet nothing is ever done? ....referees assessors must be viewing different matches to paying football supporters everyehere in England ... how else would the likes of Trevor Kettle, Deadman and yesterdays idiot, Drysdale,( for example) manage to keep being employed as apparently able and capable referees of EFL standard?


think there a few former, (possibly current too) football referees who are members of YF , I'll echo @NottsYellow comments above, as well as repeating his last sentence too
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
#3
the FA employ a number of substandard referees who appear , in the main to be incompetent week in week out, yet nothing is ever done? ....referees assessors must be viewing different matches to paying football supporters everyehere in England ... how else would the likes of Trevor Kettle, Deadman and yesterdays idiot, Drysdale,( for example) manage to keep being employed as apparently able and capable referees of EFL standard?


think there a few former, (possibly current too) football referees who are members of YF , I'll echo @NottsYellow comments above, as well as repeating his last sentence too
The Refs might not be changed as they have a diminishing number of Refs from which to pick. There was a recent BBC article about the verbal and physical abuse amateur refs got at games and the utter lack of support from the relevant FAs/Leagues. One story involved a Ref's wife getting threatened by a player days later in town when they were out. Unsurprisingly he quit.

The article was spurred on by the attack on a ref at a Irish Sunday Lg game which broke his jaw. I was a referee a while back and I wouldn't do it now due to a genuine threat of violence. Verbal abuse happened in my day but frankly it got mind numbingly boring rather than anything else but a violent threat was a rarity whereas it has sadly become more common from what I've read.

Less amateur refs means a smaller pool of talent from which pro refs will emerge so poor refs survive imo. The FA's "Respect" campaign has been an utter failure in the amateur game, and the pro game as well considering the abuse, and blatant cheating by players that continues to be accepted as reasonable behaviour (as commentators etc call "professionalism").

So until the FA starts introducing policies actually looking to protect Refs at an amateur level, which ultimately leads to an increase in Ref numbers then I don't see professional refs improving overall.
 

Sarge

Well-known member
2018-19 shirt sponsor for Jamie Hanson
#4
The Refs might not be changed as they have a diminishing number of Refs from which to pick. There was a recent BBC article about the verbal and physical abuse amateur refs got at games and the utter lack of support from the relevant FAs/Leagues. One story involved a Ref's wife getting threatened by a player days later in town when they were out. Unsurprisingly he quit.

The article was spurred on by the attack on a ref at a Irish Sunday Lg game which broke his jaw. I was a referee a while back and I wouldn't do it now due to a genuine threat of violence. Verbal abuse happened in my day but frankly it got mind numbingly boring rather than anything else but a violent threat was a rarity whereas it has sadly become more common from what I've read.

Less amateur refs means a smaller pool of talent from which pro refs will emerge so poor refs survive imo. The FA's "Respect" campaign has been an utter failure in the amateur game, and the pro game as well considering the abuse, and blatant cheating by players that continues to be accepted as reasonable behaviour (as commentators etc call "professionalism").

So until the FA starts introducing policies actually looking to protect Refs at an amateur level, which ultimately leads to an increase in Ref numbers then I don't see professional refs improving overall.
That gives a different perspective on the subject @Marked Ox ...cheers for that

as a former referee can you enlighten as to why with some Referees input from the two Assistant referees appears to be welcomed, wheras other referees seem to barely require any input excepting throw ins and offsides?
when linesmen (and lineswomen) were upgrading to Assistant referees my perception was that , the two Assistant referees , would have more 'say' in the officiating of matches. Can you enlighten as to what the, if there is one(?) policy is regarding the referee and input from the two Assistants actually is? ...because it does seem to differ vastly from match to match (that I watch)
 

Marked Ox

Well-known member
#5
That gives a different perspective on the subject @Marked Ox ...cheers for that

as a former referee can you enlighten as to why with some Referees input from the two Assistant referees appears to be welcomed, wheras other referees seem to barely require any input excepting throw ins and offsides?
when linesmen (and lineswomen) were upgrading to Assistant referees my perception was that , the two Assistant referees , would have more 'say' in the officiating of matches. Can you enlighten as to what the, if there is one(?) policy is regarding the referee and input from the two Assistants actually is? ...because it does seem to differ vastly from match to match (that I watch)
When I was reffing (at a local level) it was a personal choice of the ref in charge and we only had it for later cup matches or significant league games. I always instructed them to let me know if they saw anything. I suspect it remains a personal choice of the Ref now at a local level or a professional level.

The name change was just that I think, basically a PR exercise.

At a professional level, I've always wondered why they haven't created teams of officials who work together week in, week out. It would require a bit of reorganisation to implement but the officials would develop trust and understanding in each other.
 

ZeroTheHero

Active member
#6
Time wasting has turned into an art now. I hate it when other teams do it, and I don't like it when we do it. I don't mean retaining the ball in the corner, or playing 'keep ball' - that's fine. But the cheating that goes on (and that's what it is) is disgraceful. The refs must clamp down on it (along with many other things) - I actually think it is worse in the lower divisions that the higher ones. I know the objections to having a game 'clock' that is stopped whenever the ball is dead, but the amount of actual play there was in the second half at Bradford was (from reports, I wasn't there) very little - and spectators have paid to watch football, not to watch goalkeepers kicking the posts, players changing their minds about where to kick or throw the ball from, players pretending to jog off while clapping supporters, players running to the far side of the pitch before they are subbed etc etc etc.

As long as refs don't do anything about it, it will keep being 'the dark arts' that manager and players exploit rather than being seen as the cheating it is.
 

Sarge

Well-known member
2018-19 shirt sponsor for Jamie Hanson
#7
When I was reffing (at a local level) it was a personal choice of the ref in charge and we only had it for later cup matches or significant league games. I always instructed them to let me know if they saw anything. I suspect it remains a personal choice of the Ref now at a local level or a professional level.

The name change was just that I think, basically a PR exercise.

At a professional level, I've always wondered why they haven't created teams of officials who work together week in, week out. It would require a bit of reorganisation to implement but the officials would develop trust and understanding in each other.

thanks for the insight @Marked Ox , appreciated:)

team of 3 (or 4) match officials, working together would, on the face of it, make a lot of sense. Especially the trust and understanding aspect.

PR excersise in making linesmen/women Assistant referees seems feasible too.... given that there doesnt seem to be no FA approved standard regarding the input from assistant refs. Maybe there should be?

That said, the FA invariably live up to their initials when it comes to match officials, as in they, the FA , appear to do sweet FA
 
#8
What I also forgot to mention was the drop ball. Oxford had the ball on the half way line. Bradford player is down injured (allegedly) so ref stops play and allows trainer to come on. (Perhaps this bit was added in to the injury time, but who knows?). After player treated and trainer off pitch the ref spends time "organising" the drop ball. This bit probably takes another 30 seconds, ie ref tells Oxford player to stand back and for Bradford player to play it back to Oxford as they had possession. But what does he do? ….… He whacks it, the length of the pitch and out for a goal kick. SE has to retrieve the ball and take the goal kick, another 30 seconds wasted meanwhile the Bradford player is back on the pitch and we have a goal kick against 11 players instead of ball on the half way line attacking against 10 players. In fact I think this happened twice.
If we had possession why doesn't the ref just drop the ball with the player who had possession?
 
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