Thohir

brassmonkey said:
I find the finances interesting so dont worry about the flack myles. What i cant get my head around is we have these rich money men on board with no signs of 'game changing' investment in players and/or stadium.
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What about the game changing amounts being invested into the academy?? Another member of staff added today in shearer. Highest levels of staff and scouts ever, pushing to step up to the next level grade with investment higher than under any chairman, including a whole extra team? Do u know how ffp works? If so how would u like these game changing amounts to be invested in players?
 
Pete Burrett said:
Agree on both points. If someone who's done extensive research on his subject - like Myles on Thohir - chooses to concentrate on that topic, it's both understandable and reasonable. To suggest he should comment on new signings (or whatever) as well smacks of trying to censor just because the truth might hurt.

On the 'rich investor' front you just have to question their commitment and general interest in OUFC. That's not being cynical, just realistic. Maybe the plan is indeed to build up from academy level, but that seems like a longer term strategy that people of their supposed wealth and ambition might not favour.
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But it helps if ur questioning is balanced, and ur willing to accept and acknowledge the good they are doing/have done along side criticising the mistakes and digging for potential problems where there may be none. They might well not favour it, but they are currently doing it, and doing it very well, so ignoring what they are actually physically doing while worrying they might not want to do it, seems an odd way of looking at it to me
 
myles said:
To be honest, I’ve hardly bothered with this forum for some time, mainly because of people wanting to play the man rather than the ball. But if there is now a rule that people can only comment on the finances if they also comment on signings, that should be better communicated.
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It's difficult to play the ball, when you only ever allude to the fact that a ball may or may not exist.

You ask questions that imply something is wrong, but rarely offer anything more.

So I will try to engage you in debate, and hope that we can move forward for the betterment of all involved.

You say that the DC stadium is seen as a sign of things to come, but raise questions about ownership and revenue distribution. Now, if I'm honest I'm not entirely sure on both. However, my understand was that the stadium complex was sold off but DC United pay a nominal rent and keep all match day revenue. I also believe the wider community has access to the stadium. I guess that would be the model for here, and it's one that I would be happy with. However, I may have missed something and there are relevant concerns.

I'd be grateful if you could fill in the gaps or correct me where wrong.
 
Pete Burrett said:
I just don't think it's necessary for every comment to be 'balanced'. That's the 's**t sandwich' approach used by some employers at appraisal time: tell them their timekeeping is good to start, their personal hygiene is exemplary to finish with, but in the middle let them know they've failed to meet every target and are on a recovery plan.
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Not what I meant, not every comment has to be balanced, but I think it helps ur argument if u can show that u can see both sides, I generally air on the positive side of most things until there is hard evidence of a negative, rather than speculation. I think the wup, were needless and caused unnecessary damage that could easily have been prevented with a bit of planning. They got that massively wrong, but when u only pop up with every time there’s a negative (or not even one) it’s hard to see past that. Shouting asset strippers doesn’t prove anything, when it’s countered with actually evidence of the opposite in spending on training grounds, academies and players additions
 
Dave T said:
Did these fears get ignited when darryl did it for over a year ? Many fans still hold him in high regard, when in reality he stripped the club back to the bare bones before selling
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Do people still hold him in high regard? I think a lot of OUFC fans are pretty disillusioned with DE because of the way the final year of his tenure went.

In fact, I'd say the worry here is the current owners following the same pattern as DE - coming in to the club with big plans to invest in the team, buy the stadium and build a club that can compete in the Championship and maybe even higher.....which will in turn gain a return on their investment. Then discovering how hard it is to deal with Kassam and resolve the stadium impasse, but in parallel realizing the vast amounts of money that would need to be injected into the team to be competitive at Championship level with our current stadium situation. Followed by seeking an exit.

The difference is that under Eales, we developed sufficient talent that we made a ton of money on player sales and therefore the increase in the debt under his watch wasn't too bad. The increase in the club's debt under Tiger has been more concerning - and we always need to be conscious of the fact that none of our owners are ever giving the club money; they're lending the club money.

I don't think that the current owners are asset strippers - they're smart enough to know that there's currently no assets to strip! But nor do I think they're here out of the goodness of their heart/because they've always wanted to own OUFC. They see in Oxford a football club with potential, and if they can realise that potential there's money to be made.

But if they can't, and they get bored/disillusioned (like Eales did) - then at the rate we're currently racking up debt, there's a real worry that we'll be the next Bolton/Bury/Notts County.
 
tonyw said:
Do people still hold him in high regard? I think a lot of OUFC fans are pretty disillusioned with DE because of the way the final year of his tenure went.

In fact, I'd say the worry here is the current owners following the same pattern as DE - coming in to the club with big plans to invest in the team, buy the stadium and build a club that can compete in the Championship and maybe even higher.....which will in turn gain a return on their investment. Then discovering how hard it is to deal with Kassam and resolve the stadium impasse, but in parallel realizing the vast amounts of money that would need to be injected into the team to be competitive at Championship level with our current stadium situation. Followed by seeking an exit.

The difference is that under Eales, we developed sufficient talent that we made a ton of money on player sales and therefore the increase in the debt under his watch wasn't too bad. The increase in the club's debt under Tiger has been more concerning - and we always need to be conscious of the fact that none of our owners are ever giving the club money; they're lending the club money.

I don't think that the current owners are asset strippers - they're smart enough to know that there's currently no assets to strip! But nor do I think they're here out of the goodness of their heart/because they've always wanted to own OUFC. They see in Oxford a football club with potential, and if they can realise that potential there's money to be made.

But if they can't, and they get bored/disillusioned (like Eales did) - then at the rate we're currently racking up debt, there's a real worry that we'll be the next Bolton/Bury/Notts County.
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Couple of points I don’t agree with on that. We made a ton of money on those players because he sold them, tiger has equally invested in young talent like branagan and whyte, but Unlike darryl has said we don’t need to sell them. The increase in debt under darryl “ wasn’t to bad “ ? it was massive, he said he would clear any run up on his watch, in reality he cleared none, his first 2 years brilliant, great plan, great model possibly not the funds to fully achieve it. Tiger is actually following the same route, rebuilding behind the scenes, adding staff and investing in future sellable players, he with the board do have considerably more wealth to achieve it. Will they spend it? will they achieve it ? Is an unknown, and will only be able to be judged on what they do, not what anyone thinks they will do
 
Leysboy said:
Isn’t Tiger flying in this week to discuss budget with KR.
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Haven't we been here before??? It feels like Groundhog Day to me and that's coming from someone who always tries to remain positive. The exact same thing happened over in Ireland last year, Robinson was getting frustrated because deals weren't getting over the line and met with Tiger to discuss his budget.

I'm trying to remain positive but his budget was/should have been agreed months ago.

I'm relieved Sinclair didn't sign. He wasn't a striker for me, appeared to be very lazy closing defenders down and had alot, alot to learn.
He'd definitely be a work in progress at best.

So we go to Rangers at the weekend with only a 17 year old (huge raw asset) to partner Dickie and we'll ok Mous who was told he was surplus to requirements on the playing side.

We still haven't signed a striker and we've been crying out for one since the opening day of last season when Obika was up top. This demonstrated we hadn't addressed the weaknesses from the season before and it set the tone.

We do have a much, much better nucleas of a team compared to 12 months ago but something that worries me slightly...I felt Kashi made a significant difference in the run towards the end of last season (- his discipline problems) and we haven't resigned him so far

I will continue to catch the radio oxford bulletins, keep my fingers crossed but I do worry we haven't learnt lessons or aren't able to be strong enough in such a competitive transfer market.

The lad McNulty at Reading for me would be a great signing.

Either way a ST will be purchased again.
COYY
 
It is probably worth noting that as well as all the finance that Tiger has ploughed into the academy, player wages, the training ground, paying for DE's fight with Kassam, he has paid over a million pounds out on player transfers.

He has made mistakes but to dismiss all the money he has put into this club, to constantly being negative towards the man, I find distasteful and rude.

Yes he has made mistakes but if Tiger upped and left tomorrow the club would be in great danger of going under.
 
there is no background building with a view to a team of the future though is there,..we have already be warned that this seasons budget is less and yet we're now led to believe there is a weekend meeting to discuss the budget again....i've said this before talk of ambition to reach the championship is one thing but as things stand there is going to be a lot of luck needed to achieve promotion.
Build a team to be together for 2/3 seasons with the odd tweak and have a proper go, the fact that we keep letting players move on is part of the reason we've had 2 seasons struggling to avoid the drop.
 
myles said:
To be honest, I’ve hardly bothered with this forum for some time, mainly because of people wanting to play the man rather than the ball. But if there is now a rule that people can only comment on the finances if they also comment on signings, that should be better communicated.
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Welcome back Myles?
 
AscotYellow said:
Same way Kassam did? Build a new stadium and surrounding businesses and property. Then sell the club which is the only business that doesn't make a profit and keep all those that do.
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To be pedantic, Herd tried building the stadium and ran out of money, that left the opportunity for someone like FK to come in and exploit the business opportunity, it helped us out but also helped add to the FK empire.
 
horseman said:
there is no background building with a view to a team of the future though is there,..we have already be warned that this seasons budget is less and yet we're now led to believe there is a weekend meeting to discuss the budget again....i've said this before talk of ambition to reach the championship is one thing but as things stand there is going to be a lot of luck needed to achieve promotion.
Build a team to be together for 2/3 seasons with the odd tweak and have a proper go, the fact that we keep letting players move on is part of the reason we've had 2 seasons struggling to avoid the drop.
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This season (so far) we've only had Nelson leave who was out of contract. He's been replaced by 2 players on 2(+1) and 3 year contracts.

This year's budget may be less (debatable) but will still be competitive. We've paid a fee for Fosu and have agreed to pay compensation in the region of £300k for Cadden. We also matched (or exceeded) the deal Sinclair is on and will not be scrimping on future deals. A budget meeting doesn't mean cuts, in fact it's more likely that an increase in funds will be made available. We are in a position where we are looking at a few further tweaks with a team still very capable of growing. I honestly don't know what more you expect?
 
Leysboy said:
I think it would be refreshing to see you post something positive on a signing, instead on always posting something negative. I don’t see you praising the board or the owner, when he dips his hand in his pocket to secure a signing. It just comes across to many that you only criticise.
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That hardly makes @myles unique
 
DenisSmithsWig said:
Yes he has made mistakes but if Tiger upped and left tomorrow the club would be in great danger of going under.
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And that, in a sentence, is the whole problem - because I think it's probably true.

And it's why we, as fans, need to be respectful and have some faith in Tiger and his Board, but also need to be hyper-aware of signs that they might be getting bored or restless. And we should be raising the alarm if the club starts to spend too much money or pile up too much debt. Because that's what happened at Bolton and Notts County, and basically all the lower league clubs that have found themselves in deep financial trouble.
 
andystroud said:
That hardly makes @myles unique
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To be fair I think most people are quite balanced with their views. There’s no denying the owners have made a few bloopers in the past 12 months and people have rightly voiced their disapproval and are understandably vigilant on whats happening going forward but the majority aren’t saying anything disrespectful or disproportionate considering some of the circumstances. These guys in charge are successful businessman and, in some cases, involved in politics, I’m sure they’re thick skinned enough and used to having their performances scrutinised, especially by those with a passionate investment in what they’re responsible for.
 
tonyw said:
And that, in a sentence, is the whole problem - because I think it's probably true.

And it's why we, as fans, need to be respectful and have some faith in Tiger and his Board, but also need to be hyper-aware of signs that they might be getting bored or restless. And we should be raising the alarm if the club starts to spend too much money or pile up too much debt. Because that's what happened at Bolton and Notts County, and basically all the lower league clubs that have found themselves in deep financial trouble.
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I completely agree. I think that is why fans need to maybe be careful when it comes to insulting the current board.

It is also maybe wise for fans to realise where the club is with regards to the fact that we do need to sell players to make money as we have no other way of real sustainable income. It is also annoying when fans get annoyed that the board aren't always going to spend big on players because at the end of the day it doesn't make financial sense.
 
yellowbow said:
To be fair I think most people are quite balanced with their views. There’s no denying the owners have made a few bloopers in the past 12 months and people have rightly voiced their disapproval and are understandably vigilant on whats happening going forward but the majority aren’t saying anything disrespectful or disproportionate considering some of the circumstances. These guys in charge are successful businessman and, in some cases, involved in politics, I’m sure they’re thick skinned enough and used to having their performances scrutinised, especially by those with a passionate investment in what they’re responsible for.
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The owners have taken a lot of stick on social media, also the upside down banner/flag campaign in full view, whether it’s peoples opinion is that is justified or not, it will certainly resonate with the owners and their culture.
 
WhyteMustard said:
Haven't we been here before??? It feels like Groundhog Day to me and that's coming from someone who always tries to remain positive. The exact same thing happened over in Ireland last year, Robinson was getting frustrated because deals weren't getting over the line and met with Tiger to discuss his budget.

I'm trying to remain positive but his budget was/should have been agreed months ago.

I'm relieved Sinclair didn't sign. He wasn't a striker for me, appeared to be very lazy closing defenders down and had alot, alot to learn.
He'd definitely be a work in progress at best.

So we go to Rangers at the weekend with only a 17 year old (huge raw asset) to partner Dickie and we'll ok Mous who was told he was surplus to requirements on the playing side.

We still haven't signed a striker and we've been crying out for one since the opening day of last season when Obika was up top. This demonstrated we hadn't addressed the weaknesses from the season before and it set the tone.

We do have a much, much better nucleas of a team compared to 12 months ago but something that worries me slightly...I felt Kashi made a significant difference in the run towards the end of last season (- his discipline problems) and we haven't resigned him so far

I will continue to catch the radio oxford bulletins, keep my fingers crossed but I do worry we haven't learnt lessons or aren't able to be strong enough in such a competitive transfer market.

The lad McNulty at Reading for me would be a great signing.

Either way a ST will be purchased again.
COYY
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We haven’t resigned Kashi because he isn’t worth what he demands. Well done OUFC.
 
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