National News This Green Plan.....

Oxford57 said:
It will take years to build up a charging network, the biggest drawbacks will be the cost of the cars and unless a hybrid the range,
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The Vauxhall UK CEO was suggesting that in the next 10 years the price will come down significantly.
I would think that's inevitable
 
Oxford57 said:
It will take years to build up a charging network, the biggest drawbacks will be the cost of the cars and unless a hybrid the range,
Click to expand...

Absolutely.

Range has to improve by 100% minimum to really make this viable because the charging network will just not be there to cope.

Slap a 400-500 mile range on a charge and develop a charging network that is speedy and can cope with demand then this will move to another level.

At the moment 200-300 mile range and an hour+ to charge just doesn’t work.
 
MC Yellow said:
Slap a 400-500 mile range on a charge and develop a charging network that is speedy and can cope with demand then this will move to another level.

At the moment 200-300 mile range and an hour+ to charge just doesn’t work.
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But the point is for 90% of journeys that range absolutely does work. I could change to an electric car with a charge range of 250 miles today, and it would have minimal impact due to the nature of journeys. Of course a sales rep tearing up and down the M40 would struggle, but for the majority of people the ranges just aren't an issue. Price, however, most definitely is.
 
SteMerritt said:
But the point is for 90% of journeys that range absolutely does work. I could change to an electric car with a charge range of 250 miles today, and it would have minimal impact due to the nature of journeys. Of course a sales rep tearing up and down the M40 would struggle, but for the majority of people the ranges just aren't an issue. Price, however, most definitely is.
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Fair point but I think this is also just psychological. If you want to take your car on holiday to say Scotland or Cornwall you will always be thinking about the distance and charging issues. It may only happen once or twice a year but nevertheless I think it is an issue.... certainly is for me. Agreed though, for a normal week the range for an average motorist is probably not an issue.

Also, I think the tech is changing so rapidly that an electric car now will still be archaic in a few years time... So high cost and rapid depreciation has to be a real concern at the moment.
 
MC Yellow said:
Fair point but I think this is also just psychological. If you want to take your car on holiday to say Scotland or Cornwall you will always be thinking about the distance and charging issues. It may only happen once or twice a year but nevertheless I think it is an issue.... certainly is for me. Agreed though, for a normal week the range for an average motorist is probably not an issue.

Also, I think the tech is changing so rapidly that an electric car now will still be archaic in a few years time... So high cost and rapid depreciation has to be a real concern at the moment.
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Cornwall is one of my favourite places, yeah getting down there would be problematic 😂 I'd get round this by hiring a 'proper' car if I had an electric at the moment, but that won't be a solution in 2030 of course. 10 years to get it sorted...
 
MC Yellow said:
Absolutely.

Range has to improve by 100% minimum to really make this viable because the charging network will just
Slap a 400-500 mile range on a charge and develop a charging network that is speedy and can cope with demand then this will move to another level.
Click to expand...
The quick charging is the key.
300 miles is fine. Many smaller cars don't do much more than 300 miles in a full tank of petrol.
 
Oxford57 said:
So you would have to drive to Redbridge and hope to get a charging point
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That is just the start of the infrastructure that is eventually planned. Will it be delivered by 2030?
Will ev range be significantly greater by then? Will fast charging be commonplace?
I think almost undoubtedly yes to all those.

Not to mention more domestic charging infrastructure (for example, as company car lease schemes go green, they are likely to require lessee's to install charging points at a discount...some already do).

They speed with which the technology will develop will mean many of the problems that face ev now will not be issues in 10 years time. It'll probably be playing 2nd fiddle to hydrogen fuel cell technology by then in any case.

Personally, I'm waiting for teleportation technology to improve. Travel sure would be a lot easier then[emoji23]
 
Throwing more random thoughts into the mix....

Why not battery packs for EV`s? Drive into a charging station, remove "flat" exchange for a full and drive off?
Why not pence per mile for using the road network? More you use, more you pay, could price that to the environmental impact of the vehicle. Gas guzzlers pay more, EV`s less.
What about public transport and logistics like freight should they pay more or less?

Where are we going to plant 30,000 hectares of tree`s every year? Surely we should use the land to feed the nation and stop importing :poop: like 🥑 ?
Otherwise we will just be exporting the problem to other countries and increasing de-forestation somewhere else?
 
Essexyellows said:
Why not pence per mile for using the road network? More you use, more you pay, could price that to the environmental impact of the vehicle. Gas guzzlers pay more, EV`s
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Doesn't that happen anyway? The more gas you guzzle the more tax you pay on the fuel.
 
ZeroTheHero said:
So rich people who can afford the new and expensive EVs pay less to travel than those of us who have to stick with what we've got?
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Unless you are incentivised by the state (or hell, even The World Bank as this is a global issue!) to get rid of your polluting vehicle and benefit from having a new zero emission* vehicle. Bit more carrot and a bit less stick!

As I said up the thread, until going green is more than a choice for those who can afford it, the changes needed will not happen on the scale required. This is where Governments and International institutions must step in and cover the costs.

Pretty sure all the worlds billionaires could afford to give up half their fortune as a start. After all, most of them made it by selling us stuff they have convinced us we need in our lives....time to pay our kindness forward :cool:

*while driving. We can leave life cycle emissions and overall environmental impact for another day.
 
The other thing that struck me as a bit odd was that gas heating systems will be replaced by heat pumps , the tv news showed council housing in oxford where the work was being carried out ,a figure of £15000 was mentioned to install this, if this is the case the cost is going to be a real issue, I replaced my very old and no doubt inefficient boiler which had lasted for 35 years with a new one which cost £2000 , £15000 bill would have been a massive financial outlay , which I would have had to give serious thought to
 
Oxford57 said:
The other thing that struck me as a bit odd was that gas heating systems will be replaced by heat pumps , the tv news showed council housing in oxford where the work was being carried out ,a figure of £15000 was mentioned to install this, if this is the case the cost is going to be a real issue, I replaced my very old and no doubt inefficient boiler which had lasted for 35 years with a new one which cost £2000 , £15000 bill would have been a massive financial outlay , which I would have had to give serious thought to
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I agree that one of the biggest issues with this is the initial outlay and it also requires so many other elements to fall into place (how it is installed, how it is used, how energy efficient your building is to begin with, whether your current heating system also heats your water, whether you have underfloor heating, making it more efficient etc etc) for you to make a saving over time. That said, even if it works out at zero additional cost over 20 years, it is worth it if you can afford the initial costs (grants are available through the Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme which will bring the cost down by £2300 ish).

I had to replace my oil fired boiler about 7 years ago and I just could not afford to go for GSHP, as much as I might've wanted to at the time, so replaced it with an A+ rated new oil boiler. It was a vast improvement on the old boiler, both in terms of emissions and fuel efficiency....not to mention the old boiler was slowly leaking Carbon Monoxide into the house! The irony is that since the start of lockdown I have been quids in as heating oil prices went through the floor and are till far lower than they were even 4 years ago! This year I am expecting to spend roughly half what I did last year on heating oil....couple that with a mild winter and it all makes going green even less attractive/realistic.
 
Another query which struck me was if everyone event gets a GSHP fitted , will there be sufficient heat in the ground if it’s being continuous ly used by all , I don’t fully understand the physics Behind it
 
ZeroTheHero said:
So rich people who can afford the new and expensive EVs pay less to travel than those of us who have to stick with what we've got?
Click to expand...
You can buy a EV for 20k
You can lease/PCP long range EV for less than £300 a month (80-90% of all new cars purchased this way).
All well within reach of the vast majority of all new car purchasers.
 
LowerSouth said:
You can buy a EV for 20k
You can lease/PCP long range EV for less than £300 a month (80-90% of all new cars purchased this way).
All well within reach of the vast majority of all new car purchasers.
Click to expand...
I personally am not a 'new car purchaser'. I don't have the odd £20K lying about to buy a new car and neither do I want to spend £300 per month for the rest of my life to lease one.
That's not to say I wouldn't *love* to have a greener, newer car - until they appear on the used car market (with batteries that can still hold their charge and a decent range) there is not a hope in hell of me having one.
I suspect that I am not alone in this...
 
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