The year of the Tiger

[Big Ronaldo]

So, after dissecting the words of Karl and a large slice of guesstimation, We seem to have a board of directors who are only sitting in for a ground development deal.

If you care to look into each of them you will see that this is where their expertise mostly lies. Investment and construction.
There is no doubt that these wealthy entrepreneurs have the financial clout to make a new ground a reality, this what they do and Oxford United is that vehicle.

What seems to be much less appealing to them in the meantime is financing the day to day running of the club itself.

It seems to me that tigers whole Oxford United project is geared to the construction somewhere in Oxfordshire. A site must be found and soon If it is to happen at all.

Time is proving to be a problem as the clubs finances continue to drain to the tune of £2million a year. This has to be addressed one way or another.

The whole future of the club now seems to rest on the construction of a stadium (and more?).
It’s s**t or bust time for Tiger and his crew and the clock is ticking. How much longer he can take the hit for, who knows?
It’s The year of the Tiger indeed!

 

[yellowbow]

So, after dissecting the words of Karl and a large slice of guesstimation, We seem to have a board of directors who are only sitting in for a ground development deal.

If you care to look into each of them you will see that this is where their expertise mostly lies. Investment and construction.
There is no doubt that these wealthy entrepreneurs have the financial clout to make a new ground a reality, this what they do and Oxford United is that vehicle.

What seems to be much less appealing to them in the meantime is financing the day to day running of the club itself.

It seems to me that tigers whole Oxford United project is geared to the construction somewhere in Oxfordshire. A site must be found and soon If it is to happen at all.

Time is proving to be a problem as the clubs finances continue to drain to the tune of £2million a year. This has to be addressed one way or another.

The whole future of the club now seems to rest on the construction of a stadium (and more?).
It’s s**t or bust time for Tiger and his crew and the clock is ticking. How much longer he can take the hit for, who knows?
It’s The year of the Tiger indeed!

If this is true I hope they haven’t backed the wrong horse. The OCC and OU are notoriously difficult to deal with when it comes to planning. I don’t think they could’ve picked a trickier part of the country - unless they know something we don’t?!

 

[Scotchegg]

This was fairly evident from day one. When DE arrived he naively said that the stadium issue wasn't important, but soon realised that it was everything. SD and Satori both new that the stadium deal was essential, and Tiger is no different. Under our current arrangements the club is not sustainable without selling players and we've seen how people react to Whyte going.

So, a new stadium, or a significantly better deal on the Kassam is the only way we can ever progress as a club. Tiger and co. have said little about their intentions, but this has been clear.

The question is, at what cost does this plan have on the club. Since arriving, Tiger has covered losses estimated to be around £2m a year. He has also covered the costs of several players for fees or compensation that exceed £1m. Then add in the training ground and u23 set up and you can easily get to around £5m+ in addition to the cost of buying the club and the service charge issues. So although several mistakes have been made, financially the club is ticking over.

We will have to see how much we get for Whyte, and how this is invested before making judging too much, but I'm not sure what people actually want? The boom and bust of Bolton? The living within our means of Accrington (but without our own stadium)? Bouncing between leagues 1 and 2? There are no easy solutions to the situation we are in and ticking over whilst trying to get our own stadium is probably as good as we can hope for.

 

[holdsteady]

How much do easier does owning Oxford United FC make getting through plans for some sort of property deal (assuming it’s a ground with commercial outlets surrounding it like the Kassam and maybe some housing)? It’s not like the council have previously made it easy for the club, we were looking for years before we got stuck with the unfinished Kassam.

It must be the reason why they are here, nothing else makes sense, they must think it’s possible else they wouldn’t be bothering but it’s hardly a forgone conclusion that they will succeed in getting us a new ground. They will either get us moved to some new development in the middle of nowhere towards Bicester (then what? Perhaps Kassam mark two once they have got what they wanted and we go through all this again) or they will get fed up with the council and cut their losses and look to sell us to the next mug who thinks they can take us on a journey, if they can find one.

You hope their is but it’s fairly unlikely that we will ever get a happy ending for OUFC, this incarnation anyway, so I suppose you just have to enjoy it while you can, but the writing has been on the wall since the club and ground got separated by the sockless conman Merry.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

How much do easier does owning Oxford United FC make getting through plans for some sort of property deal (assuming it’s a ground with commercial outlets surrounding it like the Kassam and maybe some housing)? It’s not like the council have previously made it easy for the club, we were looking for years before we got stuck with the unfinished Kassam.

It must be the reason why they are here, nothing else makes sense, they must think it’s possible else they wouldn’t be bothering but it’s hardly a forgone conclusion that they will succeed in getting us a new ground. They will either get us moved to some new development in the middle of nowhere towards Bicester (then what? Perhaps Kassam mark two once they have got what they wanted and we go through all this again) or they will get fed up with the council and cut their losses and look to sell us to the next mug who thinks they can take us on a journey, if they can find one.

You hope their is but it’s fairly unlikely that we will ever get a happy ending for OUFC, this incarnation anyway, so I suppose you just have to enjoy it while you can, but the writing has been on the wall since the club and ground got separated by the sockless conman Merry.

So true?

 

[Manorlounger]

I doubt they have any privileged information. They're hoping they can secure some kind of relocation deal and fill their boots. If they can't, they'll be prepared to sell the club to someone for £1.00, walk away and cut their losses. Spending relative peanuts on a training facility and some low level player deals is a smokescreen to feign that they care for the club. Meanwhile they're cashing in on our only real asset (Whyte).

Interested in OUFC or the 'Oxford brand'? I don't believe it. Having hope dangled before us is not a new experience for OUFC fans, and I can't see it ending well for the club.

All this talk about having spent money is confusing. The club now has debts of £10 million plus and rising. Tiger may have had to spend some cash but, most of the deal to buy out Eales was achieved through a share issue and the acceptance of the charge against future transfer payments. (all adding to the club's debt)
I may be wrong here but, my thoughts are that the big money boys on the board are not spending a penny on the club but, do have the effect of protecting the club's credit status. The accountants have stated that the model, as is, cannot continue. The club is not sustainable (despite all the b*****s from the headmaster)

 

[yellowbow]

I’m getting a little confused about the training ground element. Everybody keeps pointing to it as evidence of investment from Tiger and yet yesterday Robinson was venting his spleen on the radio about the club owning nothing, including the training ground. So why has something we only rent cost us so much up front?

 

[yellowbow]

How much do easier does owning Oxford United FC make getting through plans for some sort of property deal (assuming it’s a ground with commercial outlets surrounding it like the Kassam and maybe some housing)? It’s not like the council have previously made it easy for the club, we were looking for years before we got stuck with the unfinished Kassam.

It must be the reason why they are here, nothing else makes sense, they must think it’s possible else they wouldn’t be bothering but it’s hardly a forgone conclusion that they will succeed in getting us a new ground. They will either get us moved to some new development in the middle of nowhere towards Bicester (then what? Perhaps Kassam mark two once they have got what they wanted and we go through all this again) or they will get fed up with the council and cut their losses and look to sell us to the next mug who thinks they can take us on a journey, if they can find one.

You hope their is but it’s fairly unlikely that we will ever get a happy ending for OUFC, this incarnation anyway, so I suppose you just have to enjoy it while you can, but the writing has been on the wall since the club and ground got separated by the sockless conman Merry.

I honestly believe the only hope of a long term future for the club is somebody to come along and blow FK out of the water for Grenoble Road and all the surrounding commercial properties and then allow OUFC to play at the stadium and have primary access 7 days a week for a minimal rent. Probably wishful thinking on my part but I don’t see any real alternative. All this talk of yet another new stadium around Oxford is pie in the sky in my opinion.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

If ever there was a time for some transparency Pete, it is now.
Not that I think we will get it!?

 

[Steve McAvoy]

This is, for me, a helpful thread to read as I currently am despairing over the sale of our one attacking player offering genuine pace on the eve of what I expect to be another tough season. Thanakarnjanasuth is, in my view, another (wealthy?) individual looking to play the angles in some way to his ultimate benefit (financial,reputational, who knows). The narrative seems fairly clear, continue to offer optimism while failing to be clear at any point what precisely to be optimistic about. Football supporters will provide their own ‘optimism’, however unrealistic that might be; it is one of the things that distinguish them from ‘customers’ and enables unscrupulous individuals to exploit situations. Having spent any number of hours in an unfinished, shabby arena, how can I not have worked this out. I think we are fortunate to have a Manager who has been able over the past couple of seasons has been able to get us over the line (he still drives me nuts when his ‘enthusiasm’ gets into overdrive but so be it).
So, Sunderland way then; here’s hoping...

‘

 

[yellowbow]

Hopefully Oxvox will start turning the screw and force the issue. I would expect them to and thats why I’m a member, to ask pertinent questions if there’s a doubt about the welfare of our club. The net is starting to tighten around our illustrious board, time is running out on their elusiveness. ‘You can fool some of the people some of the time’ and all that. Patience is running out on what they’re up to.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

I genuinely think that Karl is still buying into the dream (thank god). Otherwise, why hang around? Why be chief spokesman to a chairman/board that have absolutely nothing to say? Why be the man of all seasons unless you believe in what is on offer here?
While the club is still running in a way that manages to put a team on the pitch every week then I suppose that it is still viable but I think that the fans have woken up to the fact that we are in a serious financial vortex.
One in which our chairman and directors watch on in silence.

 

[WokinghamYellow]

but why is robbo buying into the dream? our first game at a new stadium is at least 5 years away. We could go through 3 or 4 managers by then. Its a very small chance that robbo would still be here by the time all these plans are ever realised. (or is robbo looking long game for a DoF role?)

Hes supposed to be building a promotion winning squad, not sorting out new training grounds and stadiums for the future for when hes a manager somewhere else.

 

[Navegante]

The sound of collective pennies dropping!

• Tiger has paid out transfer fees! Assuming the Whyte deal goes through, he will have received more than spent.
• Tiger has invested in the U23s! Clearly at the detriment of the first team squad.
• Tiger has built a training ground! On land we don't own. Would you build a house on land you rent?
• Tiger is covering our losses! It's being recorded on a ledger titled DEBT. We don't know on what terms e.g. interest rate because...
• Despite multiple attempts, the board won't actively engaged with the fanbase!

The danger of the happy-clappies spinning the clubs yarn is that is distracts fans from the real risks at play here. Finally people seem to be waking up though...

 

[Berliner]

Hopefully Oxvox will start turning the screw and force the issue. I would expect them to and thats why I’m a member, to ask pertinent questions if there’s a doubt about the welfare of our club. The net is starting to tighten around our illustrious board, time is running out on their elusiveness. ‘You can fool some of the people some of the time’ and all that. Patience is running out on what they’re up to.

The men in power don't care a jot for OxVox, to them OxVox are nothing more than a stray dog that turns up at their door growling every six months and then goes away happy after being given a biscuit and a pat on the head.

 

[Big Ronaldo]

I still support the board!
Because they are the only f*****g game in town Pete.
If they walk away now, we will be gone.
Who the f**k could look at a club with upwards of £10 million (conservatively) debt and no assets and not say... “No thanks?!”

 

[oufcbenjyp]

Football club ownership in the lower leagues is either a game of (1) owners who have been fans of their club for years and made enough money to buy them (2) Very wealthy individuals who are aiming for the promised land of the Premiership with the massive increased wealth that this could bring (think Bournemouth) and (3) The chancers with massive egos who have some money but not enough and who are able to tell their mates 'i own a football club' while at the same time dreaming of some huge payday which never actually arrives once the novelty of owning a club has worn off.

You can take your own view of which category we are in but from day 1 and, in my opinion, we have an owner who is option 3. Tiger has never had any affiliation for this place, has never shown a real interest in us as fans (look at the disdain for us and the lack of credible info) and is only in this for the money. He is Kassam #2.

 

[yellowbow]

I still support the board!
Because they are the only f*****g game in town Pete.
If they walk away now, we will be gone.
Who the f**k could look at a club with upwards of £10 million (conservatively) debt and no assets and not say... “No thanks?!”

Agreed, but what happens if in 6 months time they realise that they can’t get their shiny new complex and walk away leaving everything they spent as more debt on the club? These are worrying times and everyone who loves the club should be very vigilant

 

[Yellows1]

Interesting thread, for me and this is the bottom line, if they, The Board sort out the stadium mess which has been the monkey on our back for the last 20 years then maybe just maybe if nothing else we can at least make some strides forward but who knows what the finer details will be.............

 

[holdsteady]

Agreed, but what happens if in 6 months time they realise that they can’t get their shiny new complex and walk away leaving everything they spent as more debt on the club? These are worrying times and everyone who loves the club should be very vigilant

For me that is the most likely outcome, I just can’t see the investment and timescale involved added to the hurdles that need to be jumped keeping what is a consortium of investors interested in a stadium/property deal that will pay off a few million to each of them. Their must be quicker and easier ways to turn that sort of money over if you are a billionaire?

I have a feeling we will have/be looking for a new owner by this time next year, just with even more debt on us.

 

[unification]

The number of Jack Walker benevolent types who invest in football nowadays is pretty low. It's Football PLC and Oxford United are no different. The wealthy see football clubs as a means of making money from a leisure pursuit.

I'm cool with that mostly as I'd go insane if it wasn't the case. It's inevitable that you're going to have an owner whose only real interest is in extracting money in some way or another from the club. Be that in investing to take the club up the divisions to sell on, skimming the cream off player transfers, utilising a stadium as a revenue stream and so on. They have far more money that I'll ever have to invest in such ventures. We as fans are in it for the community, the camaraderie and the football. We have to understand that owner almost never see it that way. If you can't, then this game is not for you.

Our current lot are no different. What their plans are is anyone's guess but I think the consensus that they want a new stadium where they can skim off the profits and hopefully fire a team into the Championship on a budget is what they're aiming for. How they plan to do it when it took Oxford decades to move from The Manor, reducing the budget and sending their aid parcels over from Bangkok late every month or so beats me. Having a leech in the form of FK, who is fully entitled to his pound of flesh from Oxford because of Nick Merry signing that deal, makes it even harder. It's hard to justify investing in something that bleeds money and has no assets other than players to invest in.

I've constantly said that DE sold to a man no wealthier than himself whereas SD, JS and CM all had the requisite wealth to take on Oxford United, but even then would probably fall short of properly taking on FK. Oxford United need not just a wealthy owner, but a Times Richlist sugar daddy right now. Heaven knows where they'll find one.

 

[Yellows1]

Agreed, but what happens if in 6 months time they realise that they can’t get their shiny new complex and walk away leaving everything they spent as more debt on the club? These are worrying times and everyone who loves the club should be very vigilant

If that’s a possibility then maybe we are better off starting again from the very bottom, clear the debt, walk away from the stadium mess and go again as a previous manager use to say.

Having said all of that, the good news is the clock is starting to tick in this crap lease that we’re tied into, let’s hope there’s enough time to sort things

 

[yellowbow]

I suppose we’re getting to a point where we look at OCC and find out how much they want to keep professional football in the county? At the end of the day our survival probably rests with how cooperative they’re going to be.

 

[outsidethebox]

I suppose we’re getting to a point where we look at OCC and find out how much they want to keep professional football in the county? At the end of the day our survival probably rests with how cooperative they’re going to be.

And we can be sure that OCC will attach robust planning conditions that help support the club .... it's what they're really good at ?

 

[Gary Baldi]

Worth noting the current training ground was a necessity due to the BMW site changing around the time the club was being sold to Tiger. Also, the site was first mooted under DEs time as Chairman where the talks took place with Fusion and OCC - if I recall, DE thought it to be expensive. From my perspective, the club had little short term choice to go the current training ground, but as has been said, they are looking elsewhere for a permanent base in the medium to long term.

That though, requires capital.

 

[Victor1986]

Yes, you last few posters are right (Yellows 1 etc..). Going into Administration, 12 points (minimum) penalty but at least ridding ourselves of the millstone. It would certainly concentrate FK's mind with no more rent coming in? Relegation would not be a certainty as two clubs are down there already.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

SD, JS and CM all had the requisite wealth to take on Oxford United, but even then would probably fall short of properly taking on FK.

SD explained (on here I think) how he simply couldn't really make the maths work with the club's current stadium situation and therefore lack of other income. And then was when Charlie's Water Eaton 'plan' still had some brief credibility as an eventual get-out.

 

[RyanioBirdio]

I think the plan is to run it at a minimum this season, do enough to stay up (Bolton and Bury have made that easier this time), and if there’s no progress on the property deal by next summer then we’ll see the board start to leave town. It’ll be 2.5 years next summer since the purchase, and if there’s no progress after that amount of time I don’t see why people would hang around. We have barely any contracted players beyond next summer, not even a starting eleven’s worth currently, and a certain manager doesn’t have a deal beyond this season. No one seems to be remembering or mentioning that - the manager has 12 months left himself. Most of the U23 players only get one year contracts to boot, unless they flirt with the first team and we think they might be sellable. There is an increasing number of things that point towards summer 2020 being very pivotal. It’s all lined up to be a time of doubling down or cutting and running - look at what’s in front of you. We’ve been really awful at doing that as supporters over the years, and there’s been far too much complacency and people listening to ‘sources’ instead of studying hard evidence. Kassam was a top man, Merry was the local boy saviour, Kelvin Thomas wasn’t secretly spending us into a black hole, Darryl Eales wasn’t winding us down as he edged towards the exit for the last year... positivity is great but realism is vital. Base your opinions on what you can actually see, not on what you want to hear and what you want to be true. And that really does and must include ‘sources’. Most of them are being fed and strung along as much as the fans are, and this notion of “If you’re ‘negative’ the you want to see the club fail and you aren’t a real fan” is both pathetic and incorrect. I’ve never met a single fan of this club who spends time and money on season tickets, away games and everything in between, who does so WANTING to see failure and destruction. It’s an absurd suggestion, and that needs to stop.

We’ll find out in the next 12 months what Tiger and chums were or weren’t here for. But if they do leave us, and do so with more debt than ever, hardly any players on contracts, no contracted manager and with our landlord the most hostile he’s been in many years as a direct result of their behaviour, it won’t be pretty. The more owners we have who stitch us up and do us over, the harder it gets to find anybody to take it on next time. Eventually the debt will just be too much and nobody will bother, and people can’t assume SD will come riding in on his horse to fix it if it ever gets too close to the edge. The level of the debt will eventually put it out of his reach, and from what people can see with their own eyes, our latest owner is absolutely LOADING it on. The expenditure will be revealed to be positively eye watering in the months to come, and it’ll go on the club’s own tab. The club ALWAYS pays in the end.

 

[holdsteady]

I think the plan is to run it at a minimum this season, do enough to stay up (Bolton and Bury have made that easier this time), and if there’s no progress on the property deal by next summer then we’ll see the board start to leave town. It’ll be 2.5 years next summer since the purchase, and if there’s no progress after that amount of time I don’t see why people would hang around. We have barely any contracted players beyond next summer, not even a starting eleven’s worth currently, and a certain manager doesn’t have a deal beyond this season. No one seems to be remembering or mentioning that - the manager has 12 months left himself. Most of the U23 players only get one year contracts to boot, unless they flirt with the first team and we think they might be sellable. There is an increasing number of things that point towards summer 2020 being very pivotal. It’s all lined up to be a time of doubling down or cutting and running - look at what’s in front of you. We’ve been really awful at doing that as supporters over the years, and there’s been far too much complacency and people listening to ‘sources’ instead of studying hard evidence. Kassam was a top man, Merry was the local boy saviour, Kelvin Thomas wasn’t secretly spending us into a black hole, Darryl Eales wasn’t winding us down as he edged towards the exit for the last year... positivity is great but realism is vital. Base your opinions on what you can actually see, not on what you want to hear and what you want to be true. And that really does and must include ‘sources’. Most of them are being fed and strung along as much as the fans are, and this notion of “If you’re ‘negative’ the you want to see the club fail and you aren’t a real fan” is both pathetic and incorrect. I’ve never met a single fan of this club who spends time and money on season tickets, away games and everything in between, who does so WANTING to see failure and destruction. It’s an absurd suggestion, and that needs to stop.

We’ll find out in the next 12 months what Tiger and chums were or weren’t here for. But if they do leave us, and do so with more debt than ever, hardly any players on contracts, no contracted manager and with our landlord the most hostile he’s been in many years as a direct result of their behaviour, it won’t be pretty. The more owners we have who stitch us up and do us over, the harder it gets to find anybody to take it on next time. Eventually the debt will just be too much and nobody will bother, and people can’t assume SD will come riding in on his horse to fix it if it ever gets too close to the edge. The level of the debt will eventually put it out of his reach, and from what people can see with their own eyes, our latest owner is absolutely LOADING it on. The expenditure will be revealed to be positively eye watering in the months to come, and it’ll go on the club’s own tab. The club ALWAYS pays in the end.

I reckon you have it pretty much spot on, this time next year could be very interesting.

 

[BS32]

I think the plan is to run it at a minimum this season, do enough to stay up (Bolton and Bury have made that easier this time), and if there’s no progress on the property deal by next summer then we’ll see the board start to leave town. It’ll be 2.5 years next summer since the purchase, and if there’s no progress after that amount of time I don’t see why people would hang around. We have barely any contracted players beyond next summer, not even a starting eleven’s worth currently, and a certain manager doesn’t have a deal beyond this season. No one seems to be remembering or mentioning that - the manager has 12 months left himself. Most of the U23 players only get one year contracts to boot, unless they flirt with the first team and we think they might be sellable. There is an increasing number of things that point towards summer 2020 being very pivotal. It’s all lined up to be a time of doubling down or cutting and running - look at what’s in front of you. We’ve been really awful at doing that as supporters over the years, and there’s been far too much complacency and people listening to ‘sources’ instead of studying hard evidence. Kassam was a top man, Merry was the local boy saviour, Kelvin Thomas wasn’t secretly spending us into a black hole, Darryl Eales wasn’t winding us down as he edged towards the exit for the last year... positivity is great but realism is vital. Base your opinions on what you can actually see, not on what you want to hear and what you want to be true. And that really does and must include ‘sources’. Most of them are being fed and strung along as much as the fans are, and this notion of “If you’re ‘negative’ the you want to see the club fail and you aren’t a real fan” is both pathetic and incorrect. I’ve never met a single fan of this club who spends time and money on season tickets, away games and everything in between, who does so WANTING to see failure and destruction. It’s an absurd suggestion, and that needs to stop.

We’ll find out in the next 12 months what Tiger and chums were or weren’t here for. But if they do leave us, and do so with more debt than ever, hardly any players on contracts, no contracted manager and with our landlord the most hostile he’s been in many years as a direct result of their behaviour, it won’t be pretty. The more owners we have who stitch us up and do us over, the harder it gets to find anybody to take it on next time. Eventually the debt will just be too much and nobody will bother, and people can’t assume SD will come riding in on his horse to fix it if it ever gets too close to the edge. The level of the debt will eventually put it out of his reach, and from what people can see with their own eyes, our latest owner is absolutely LOADING it on. The expenditure will be revealed to be positively eye watering in the months to come, and it’ll go on the club’s own tab. The club ALWAYS pays in the end.

Great post, sums it all up as it is, scary stuff.