The Stadium.....the clock is ticking.

Paul P

Level: Jack Midson
(68 Apps, 15 Gls)
I hope i'm not duplicating here but I think we lost the dedicated stadium thread in the move. I personally think the clock is ticking on this issue and we need to come together and explore options and see how we as supporters can help move this forward. After an interesting and positive OxVox meeting the other night and a couple of great signings i'm feeling pretty good about where we are heading on the playing/academy front but the stadium situation still makes me extremely nervous. To me it makes sense to be exploring all options. We have around eight years left on the licence and to arrive there without any option but to sign again on the same terms would be criminal negligence on our part. Can we use what must be a wide pool of legal, planning, and business experience along with a huge amount of passion for our club to work together and find a way out of the shackles we were signed into? Both sides of what became a counterproductive and slightly childish argument actually had merit. This time can we work on ALL options together as supporters and see if we can save our club from another twenty years of having to over perform just to stand still. I for one am open to suggestions?
 
I discussed this very thing with Jem earlier today!

It's either 'Great minds think alike' or 'Donkeys seldom differ'. :)
Actually I do think there is a willingness among supporters to work together on this. Maybe it's worth asking the question who out there has specific skills, contacts or ideas that may be of help?
 
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The slum landlord has taken the p**s out of us for years. Many have said we should not upset him as there may be a deal to be done. Truth is that will never happen with this rat!


He must have a London office and even if he is not there we should maybe have a demo outside it and show some balls for a change!
 
The slum landlord has taken the P**s out of us for years. Many have said we should not upset him as there may be a deal to be done. Truth is that will never happen with this rat!


He must have a London office and even if he is not there we should maybe have a demo outside it and show some balls for a change!

It's definitely one way to go I suppose. Personally I just don't think he cares in the slightest what we think. I doubt he'd even be there and if he was he'd be sat in his office smiling. Is he really worried about the effect on his company? Again I doubt it, he has had worse things thrown at him and this would gain very little attention outside Oxford. My worry would be it would turn a man indifferent to us into one wanting to stick the knife in further. If we get to the point of no return and he still hasn't shifted in attitude, why not try to directly lobby the businesses around the ground that directly put money in his pocket. Some at least might feel their business in being hurt by his intransigence. For now, and this is just my opinion, there are other ways to try and get things moving.
 
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It's definitely one way to go I suppose. Personally I just don't think he cares in the slightest what we think. I doubt he'd even be there and if he was he's be sat in his office smiling. Is he really worried about the effect on his company? Again I doubt it, he has had worse things thrown at him and this would gain very little attention outside Oxford. My worry would be it would turn a man indifferent to us into one wanting to stick the knife in further. If we get to the point of no return and he still hasn't shifted in attitude, why not try to directly lobby the businesses around the ground that directly put money in his pocket. Some at least might feel their business in being hurt by his intransigence. For now, and this is just my opinion, there are other ways to try and get things moving.
I am not an expert at all in this area and apologies if this has been covered already. But am I right in thinking that we can play pro football outside Oxon? If yes, why not play at WWFC for a season? V far from ideal but it
 
I am not an expert at all in this area and apologies if this has been covered already. But am I right in thinking that we can play pro football outside Oxon? If yes, why not play at WWFC for a season? V far from ideal but it[/QUOTE
Would flush kassam out. He would be left with a white elephant?
 
Depend on what your aspirations for the stadium are.

If its a ground where we hold our matches and over the coming years the stadium and infracstructure around the stadium improves what are you looking for?
Have we got a willing landlord who wants to sell the stadium at the price we can afford, is it financially prudent to take on the stadium ownership and upkeep, will we be able to service the debt buying the ground will entail, and will owning the ground give us any financial security to help the club move forward in a football arena where ground ownership is not the do all and end all, owning the stadium and club is open to prospective future owners undoing what would of been a really hard fought achievement that could ultimately put our future at risk with an unscrupulous owner, the money in football is in league position and TV money.

Can we afford to move out of this present tenure, is there land, money and inclination from everyone that would have to be involved to move away from the current residence and for what reason?

Is the future really that bad if we did carry on paying the rent we pay now on a new lease, if you are in division 2 yes it has some impact, if we are comfortably in the championship it might seem a bargain.

If we could purchase the ground without a greater financial burden, it would have to be under a trust umbrella.
If we stayed and renewed the lease, it would have to be under better terms and control so we could use the ground to further our footballing ambitions.
 
Unfortunately the stadium is no longer a White Elephant to Ka$$am. It is owned outright and if anyone has ever rented out property with no mortgage you charge enough to cover all the bills plus profit. The only way out is to not renew any lease. Ka$$am can move the rent up and down as fast as our league position. We can never get him over a barrel because we've already recouped his investment through rent.
 
Ka££am is a c*nt!

“I am planning on providing housing for Oxfordshire which it desperately needs. I do not have to do deals in order to get planning permission so they can buy the stadium for a cheaper price.

“We are a commercial organisation not a charity.”

So not only has he screwed us over with the stadium, he's determined to remove the overflow carpark, build housing and still get over paid for the purchase of the stadium.

Surely he's made enough money out of Oxford!!!! What an a*****e.

http://www.Oxfordm**l.co.uk/sport/o...adium_deal___but_he_has_a_fight_on_his_hands/

Again Ka££am uses the excuse that he doesn't want to sell to another investor who may not have the best interests in OUFC (pot calling kettle black!!!). Of course Firoz!! it's nothing to do with the fact that your fleecing the club month in month out without having to lift a finger..
 
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As I said one of the options might be renew the lease on as best terms as you can afford, these terms might not be such a financial issue if we were in the championship, a lease can't be moved up and down as you are suggesting and in the time frame if we have to renew a lease we should have a clearer direction on where the club is going.
What you have said might be right or wrong, but you have to look at our future as a business model not personal like or dislike of the FK.
 
As I said one of the options might be renew the lease on as best terms as you can afford, these terms might not be such a financial issue if we were in the championship, a lease can't be moved up and down as you are suggesting and in the time frame if we have to renew a lease we should have a clearer direction on where the club is going.
What you have said might be right or wrong, but you have to look at our future as a business model not personal like or dislike of the FK.

While I absolutely agree that renegotiating the licence at a better rate, maybe even with provision for us to take revenue from the ground and be able to develop the stadium, would be a very attractive idea, the fact of the matter is that without leverage, what is his motivation to agree to that? I fear if we are relying on altruism then we may be in for a long wait. I honestly believe that if we don't act now and find a way to either make renegotiating an attractive proposition for him or have a financially viable plan to move away within eight to ten years, then he will merely sit back and tell us that we are within our rights to resign the licence on the current terms or we can leave. If we are hoping at that point to use the threat of leaving to play at WWFC or NTFC then I think we are sitting down at a poker table with a guy who owns all the cards. And the table. And the chair we are sitting on.
 
As I said one of the options might be renew the lease on as best terms as you can afford, these terms might not be such a financial issue if we were in the championship, a lease can't be moved up and down as you are suggesting and in the time frame if we have to renew a lease we should have a clearer direction on where the club is going.
What you have said might be right or wrong, but you have to look at our future as a business model not personal like or dislike of the FK.

Sorry LR but I can’t see what benefit of renegotiating the lease would be. I appreciate what Oxvox are trying to do, but to be frank , Kassam giving us a much better financial deal? He’s tight-fisted he is only in it for himself and couldn’t give one iota about this club of ours.
 
Agree bazzer , you can't talk to this bloke
It's time for action , we as fans can put pressure on his business interest .
Why oh why people still buy food and drink from the stadium is beyond me , hit him where it hurts .
And the council can stop pandering to him , hit him hard over the priory debacle .
 
Sorry LR but I can’t see what benefit of renegotiating the lease would be. I appreciate what Oxvox are trying to do, but to be frank , Kassam giving us a much better financial deal? He’s tight-fisted he is only in it for himself and couldn’t give one iota about this club of ours.
Ok, I did say it was an option, you have expressed your opinion but there are people who are at least talking to him and trying to look at all options that can be achieved with him.
 
While I absolutely agree that renegotiating the licence at a better rate, maybe even with provision for us to take revenue from the ground and be able to develop the stadium, would be a very attractive idea, the fact of the matter is that without leverage, what is his motivation to agree to that? I fear if we are relying on altruism then we may be in for a long wait. I honestly believe that if we don't act now and find a way to either make renegotiating an attractive proposition for him or have a financially viable plan to move away within eight to ten years, then he will merely sit back and tell us that we are within our rights to resign the licence on the current terms or we can leave. If we are hoping at that point to use the threat of leaving to play at WWFC or NTFC then I think we are sitting down at a poker table with a guy who owns all the cards. And the table. And the chair we are sitting on.
This was discussed at the Oxvox meeting, dialog is on going with FK but has halted until this arbitration situation is sorted.
People are and have been trying to sort the stadium situation out for a long time now, nothing has changed apart from the clock ticking down, FK knows what we can and can't do moving the club away and the financial implications that brings for both sides, as you say no point in playing poker with the man when you are holding none of the cards.

Do you not think the academy ground situation is a far more important situation for the future of the club against trying to own this ground or another ground that will have a drain on resources.
 
Agree bazzer , you can't talk to this bloke
It's time for action , we as fans can put pressure on his business interest .
Why oh why people still buy food and drink from the stadium is beyond me , hit him where it hurts .
And the council can stop pandering to him , hit him hard over the priory debacle .
We might be reaping now for the last time we took action, it was discussed and agreed at the Oxvox meeting that tackling FK head on and trying to force him into a corner is a tough task, that was from the council and Oxvox people there who have had meetings with him.
We all want the best for the football club, whether that means buying the stadium, moving, staying there will not be a perfect solution to please everyone.
 
Ka££am is a c*nt!

“I am planning on providing housing for Oxfordshire which it desperately needs. I do not have to do deals in order to get planning permission so they can buy the stadium for a cheaper price.

“We are a commercial organisation not a charity.”

So not only has he screwed us over with the stadium, he's determined to remove the overflow carpark, build housing and still get over paid for the purchase of the stadium.

Surely he's made enough money out of Oxford!!!! What an A*****e.

http://www.Oxfordm**l.co.uk/sport/o...adium_deal___but_he_has_a_fight_on_his_hands/

Again Ka££am uses the excuse that he doesn't want to sell to another investor who may not have the best interests in OUFC (pot calling kettle black!!!). Of course Firoz!! it's nothing to do with the fact that your fleecing the club month in month out without having to lift a finger..
The Oxford mail is unhelpful for the football club, what they have said was all discussed at the Oxvox meeting by Bob Price, it was out in the public domain, but they have to try and get a click bait headline to help their chip wrapper paper, they are trying to put a negative situation on a positive Oxvox meeting.
 
I would much prefer to negotiate a ground sharing contract with a different club, in a different stadium than stay in the clutches of this spineless **** who's rinsed the club dry for so many years.

I feel if we were to renegotiate a reduced rent in 8 years time, the ole "feel good factor" would be one of the all time lows. This is our best chance to finally rid ourselves of this man.

As per the original post, we have 8 years to knuckle down options. Now is not the time for squabbling over which option is right and wrong. Everyone has different opinions on the best route forward, the important thing is to have all these options written down with as much information as we can find, positives and negatives of each etc.

Personally I think it would be beneficial for a group to seriously look into ground sharing options in 8 years time. It may not be required but I think it's hugely important to have that safety net there. It would give us more time to sort a permanent home for the club without being tied up in another long lease with the devil.
 
I would much prefer to negotiate a ground sharing contract with a different club, in a different stadium than stay in the clutches of this spineless **** who's rinsed the club dry for so many years.

I feel if we were to renegotiate a reduced rent in 8 years time, the ole "feel good factor" would be one of the all time lows. This is our best chance to finally rid ourselves of this man.

As per the original post, we have 8 years to knuckle down options. Now is not the time for squabbling over which option is right and wrong. Everyone has different opinions on the best route forward, the important thing is to have all these options written down with as much information as we can find, positives and negatives of each etc.

Personally I think it would be beneficial for a group to seriously look into ground sharing options in 8 years time. It may not be required but I think it's hugely important to have that safety net there. It would give us more time to sort a permanent home for the club without being tied up in another long lease with the devil.
The latest OM headline "We are not a charity - Kassam".... Bobs mission has already failed.
As you should know click bait.
If you read the rest of the article it balances it out and there is options available, what do expect FK to say he's started at his strong point and hopefully can be moved to a better position.
 
Hardly a case of reaping now for the last time action was taken,the nature of the beast tells you that he can,has and will continue to do exactly as he pleases.
Football was lost to the average man in the street a long time ago along with the connection between club and it's supporters and the higher up the pyramid the club goes the bigger the gap will become as you'll need to be in a certain wealth bracket to be able to afford to go on a regular basis.
Whoever owns a football club will do what is best for them regardless of any spin and the next generation are not showing much interest in attending the sport let alone clubs like ours..There has been far too much of a they will just turn up regardless attitude from the powers that be and seemingly no interest or active action to attract the wider audience.Those that attend and in many cases have followed the club through good and bad times are largely ignored until season ticket renewal time and have had to put up with a 3 sided soul less wind tunnel and facilities getting worse by the year.

Various Owners have been unable to remove the stench that hangs over the club and now with a lease running down and apparently nowhere else to go to, it looks like we are stuck with it and once again will be asking which side would you like your bread buttered.
 
This will, inevitably, be controversial, but I'm going to support Kassam's stance.

It is easy - very easy, in fact - to vilify him as a ruthless profiteer who is causing our beloved OUFC to suffer financially. But look at it objectively.

Kassam stepped in to develop Minchery Farm when nobody else would. OK, it was a half-hearted development which has subsequently been left to decay, but at the time of his initial appearance I seem to remember most people were grateful. There were some notable exceptions to this who doubted his intentions were in our interests, but the prospect of a new stadium calmed many nerves.

So a three quarter ground was built and Kassam oversaw the club as Chairman. Then the biggest mistake in OUFC's history. The clown Merry did the deal to separate ownership of club and stadium. We have never recovered from this.

Kassam clearly saw his own takeover as a business deal. We all knew he had no love of OUFC - he's a Gooner FFS - and since Merry's intervention he's done what any successful businessman does: he's maximised his profits with a view to making even more money through developing land that he owns.

Forget morals, forget calling him a c**t, or whatever makes you feel better, he's done what businessmen do. He is guilty of nothing. Why should he care about the future of OUFC if it doesn't help him personally? He owes us nothing. The fact that he's not an altruistic saint is irrelevant. Perhaps he will have a road to Damascus moment and gift the stadium to the club, but I doubt it.

A tough lesson has been learnt, but Merry is the criminal here.

Bang on.

FK won’t do any form of charitable act or anything that will cost him money. Slings and arrows and barbed media offensives won’t bother him (he’s a man who made his millions as the ‘merchant of misery’ slum hotelier remember?) and he’ll pursue whatever path he chooses, in spite of any objectives. If he legally owns the land where the car park is, he’s legally allowed to whatever he likes with it. It all ties into his business-driven mindset.

That said, the one non-financial method that I can see that’s actually riled FK a bit has been putting the Asset of Community Value (ACV) on the stadium. Sure, it’s had as much an impact on us as the Yom Kippur war had on the Palestinians, but it made him sit up and take notice for a change. Unless there are other legal frameworks that can be used in deterring him to get what he wants (and I haven’t heard of any), the only way to get through to FK is via the wallet – either denying him funds or offering him an extortionate sum for something worth far less.

Playing Devil’s advocate to your point that he doesn’t give a toss for OUFC, why did he attend the 2016 JPT final? Was he invited as a guest of DE whilst a stadium purchase was in the offing or was it a genuine desire to see his tenant play a game at Wembley?
 
Don't fall for the hype.

Sometimes, People want to have a demon, a villain.

Takes the focus from something else.

Mind you dont all fall into that trap.

Kassam was a dreadful football chairman, thats for sure.

Other things, we may still need him.
 
Seperate to the above, its a difficult place to be - rent, landlords and whatnot.

Take my experience with Oxford City Stars.

We play in an arena in the center of Oxford. We pay large ammounts of rent to our landlord. Sometimes its a stuggle to get work carried out or improvements made and on a match day, we don't see a penny from the concessions - drinks, hotdogs sold during, before or after a game.

Our landlord is ultimatley Bob Price.

Our relationship is good with the Council, they dont want to be seen negatively but dont want to lose revenue.

They're more like a charity than Kassam, yet they still struggle with the concept of supporting Sport. Our fans scream at the council to support us, we also know that the council can't suddenly change how they work.

Its a long discussion, which needs people to talk face to face to get anywhere.
 
This will, inevitably, be controversial, but I'm going to support Kassam's stance.

It is easy - very easy, in fact - to vilify him as a ruthless profiteer who is causing our beloved OUFC to suffer financially. But look at it objectively.

Kassam stepped in to develop Minchery Farm when nobody else would. OK, it was a half-hearted development which has subsequently been left to decay, but at the time of his initial appearance I seem to remember most people were grateful. There were some notable exceptions to this who doubted his intentions were in our interests, but the prospect of a new stadium calmed many nerves.

So a three quarter ground was built and Kassam oversaw the club as Chairman. Then the biggest mistake in OUFC's history. The clown Merry did the deal to separate ownership of club and stadium. We have never recovered from this.

Kassam clearly saw his own takeover as a business deal. We all knew he had no love of OUFC - he's a Gooner FFS - and since Merry's intervention he's done what any successful businessman does: he's maximised his profits with a view to making even more money through developing land that he owns.

Forget morals, forget calling him a c**t, or whatever makes you feel better, he's done what businessmen do. He is guilty of nothing. Why should he care about the future of OUFC if it doesn't help him personally? He owes us nothing. The fact that he's not an altruistic saint is irrelevant. Perhaps he will have a road to Damascus moment and gift the stadium to the club, but I doubt it.

A tough lesson has been learnt, but Merry is the criminal here.

Agree on all of this...it is what it is and Kassam is a very, very good businessman. A businessman who cares about his investment and how well it's doing (i.e. the masses of cash he makes from rent and usage of the entire site), and how he can maximise it (see overflow carpark development), yet cares not one jot about us as the people most affected. It's like owning a school site and not caring about the OFSTED report.
 
This will, inevitably, be controversial, but I'm going to support Kassam's stance.

It is easy - very easy, in fact - to vilify him as a ruthless profiteer who is causing our beloved OUFC to suffer financially. But look at it objectively.

Kassam stepped in to develop Minchery Farm when nobody else would. OK, it was a half-hearted development which has subsequently been left to decay, but at the time of his initial appearance I seem to remember most people were grateful. There were some notable exceptions to this who doubted his intentions were in our interests, but the prospect of a new stadium calmed many nerves.

So a three quarter ground was built and Kassam oversaw the club as Chairman. Then the biggest mistake in OUFC's history. The clown Merry did the deal to separate ownership of club and stadium. We have never recovered from this.

Kassam clearly saw his own takeover as a business deal. We all knew he had no love of OUFC - he's a Gooner FFS - and since Merry's intervention he's done what any successful businessman does: he's maximised his profits with a view to making even more money through developing land that he owns.

Forget morals, forget calling him a c**t, or whatever makes you feel better, he's done what businessmen do. He is guilty of nothing. Why should he care about the future of OUFC if it doesn't help him personally? He owes us nothing. The fact that he's not an altruistic saint is irrelevant. Perhaps he will have a road to Damascus moment and gift the stadium to the club, but I doubt it.

A tough lesson has been learnt, but Merry is the criminal here.
This.
 
Too many apologists on this thread. Kassam looking after himself might be fine and to be expected, but let's cut out the crap about being a great businessman, custodianship and best interests, it's utterly nauseating. Nothing he has done is in the least bit admirable. Nothing.

The reality, if we have to stay at his stadium, is that we need Kassam to play ball, I think everyone knows that. Calling him names is cathartic but doesn't achieve anything. However, I have come to the conclusion that he'll never do anything good for the club. Jem Faulkner, Colin, Simon etc have spent huge amounts of their time trying to bring FK to the table and they did so with their eyes wide open. He has dangled much in front of them, but when it comes to it, he always has a reason not to follow through, whether it's arbitration, naming rights, planning etc, there's always something. I don't see that changing and he appears far to clever to ever be brought to task, or have his plans derailed, by the Council(s). He continually runs roughshod over them and does so in the name of "custodianship". It makes me puke.

I don't ever expect him to be charitable to an owner of the club, but I do think that the fortune he has made off the back of his involvement with Oxford United and its fans should mean he can afford to take a fair approach with a community trust. He won't of course and he never will.
 
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