General The OUFC Model

[SteMerritt]

Good mention of OUFC in this article...

Premier League and Championship Academy Players Struggling to Make an Impact

The third round of the FA Cup further showed the Premier League and Championship academy players aren't quite ready for first-team football.

lastwordonsports.com

 

[Concretebob]

The moaners on this forum ought to read that.

 

[Basham Wonderland]

Makes me miss the Mapp era. Ledson, Kenny, Lundstram, Roofe, Dunks. Some of those performances. That game against Carlisle. What a golden age.

 

[Foley]

Makes me miss the Mapp era. Ledson, Kenny, Lundstram, Roofe, Dunks. Some of those performances. That game against Carlisle. What a golden age.

Don't forget that golden era was generally in L2.
In L1 we have also had some excellent footballers- Dickie, Atkinson, Moore, Whyte Browne, Taylor, Brannagan, Fosu.
I remember going to Lincoln last season. Best ever away score and a sensational performance (plus the win at Shrewsbury with the Whyte hat trick)
At a higher level we have equally had some tremendous attacking football, results and players

 

[battman]

The moaners on this forum ought to read that.

I don't think any of the 'moaners' on here have been complaining about our model. If anything, the complaint has been we haven't seen enough of it in recent seasons

 

[tonyw]

Don't forget that golden era was generally in L2.
In L1 we have also had some excellent footballers- Dickie, Atkinson, Moore, Whyte Browne, Taylor, Brannagan, Fosu.
I remember going to Lincoln last season. Best ever away score and a sensational performance (plus the win at Shrewsbury with the Whyte hat trick)
At a higher level we have equally had some tremendous attacking football, results and players

I reckon September 2019 OUFC vs. April 2016 OUFC would be an absolutely cracking game, if anyone fancies inventing a time machine that can carry at least sixteen footballers?

Although you would also have to clone Josh Ruffels......

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Makes me miss the Mapp era. Ledson, Kenny, Lundstram, Roofe, Dunks. Some of those performances. That game against Carlisle. What a golden age.

My favourite part was the hot dogs.

 

[OxfordYankee]

My favourite part was the hot dogs.

There were hot dogs? If only we’d had an owner who enjoyed publicising that sort of thing.

 

[Concretebob]

There were hot dogs? If only we’d had an owner who enjoyed publicising that sort of thing.

He didn't quite publicise who eventually paid for said hot dogs.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Re the OP.

I think there are two groups of players being mixed up in that article. Some of the players mentioned we signed, developed and reaped the rewards on the pitch and then in the transfer market. Others were loans, which for me is a very different kettle of haddock.

The first group contains players who really do have something to prove, a career to revitalise and as such really commit to the club.

 

[MarkG]

Does this model work better in League 2 or League 1? or hard to tell?
A good academy player will be more likely to stand out in League 2 and get more game time.
Whereas in League 1 the existing squad should be a bit harder to break into.

I think some academy players need to wake up that they aren't going to break into the first team, and instead of going out on endless loans, they are better off dropping down the divisions in order to prove themselves.
Compare Roofe with Carlton Morris. It only took two seasons from leaving West Brom for Roofe to be playing in the Championship for Leeds and then Belgium and onto Rangers. Morris spent seven years on loan from Norwich at various clubs without ever really making an impact before signing for Barnsley which isn't really a "big" Championship club

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Does this model work better in League 2 or League 1? or hard to tell?
A good academy player will be more likely to stand out in League 2 and get more game time.
Whereas in League 1 the existing squad should be a bit harder to break into.

I think some academy players need to wake up that they aren't going to break into the first team, and instead of going out on endless loans, they are better off dropping down the divisions in order to prove themselves.
Compare Roofe with Carlton Morris. It only took two seasons from leaving West Brom for Roofe to be playing in the Championship for Leeds and then Belgium and onto Rangers. Morris spent seven years on loan from Norwich at various clubs without ever really making an impact before signing for Barnsley which isn't really a "big" Championship club

Isn't money a significant factor here? I suspect that a 'starlet' at a Prem club or even a Championship club is probably earning significantly more by staying as long as they'll keep him and going out on loan repeatedly than by leaving and signing for a L1 or L2 club permanently. Not an ambitious thing to do for sure, but (especially in the current circumstances) understandable.

 

[horseman]

Isn't money a significant factor here? I suspect that a 'starlet' at a Prem club or even a Championship club is probably earning significantly more by staying as long as they'll keep him and going out on loan repeatedly than by leaving and signing for a L1 or L2 club permanently. Not an ambitious thing to do for sure, but (especially in the current circumstances) understandable.

Exactly

A kid signed at 11 by a prem club on silly money and mortgages etc paid for both parents is hardly going to change the mindset of players going forward.
That they're considerably rich by 16 or so and probably never going near a first team will matter not and a loan to the likes of Oxford has no appeal when the attitude is all about money instilled into them at such a young age.

 

[Carpy]

Exactly

A kid signed at 11 by a prem club on silly money and mortgages etc paid for both parents is hardly going to change the mindset of players going forward.
That they're considerably rich by 16 or so and probably never going near a first team will matter not and a loan to the likes of Oxford has no appeal when the attitude is all about money instilled into them at such a young age.

This is another issue with this new squad and wage caps, there are going to be countless players in Prem Academies who simply can't afford to give up the money they are on by going to a League 1 or 2 team. There will be a serious amount of unrealised talent as a result of the changes.

 

[horseman]

This is another issue with this new squad and wage caps, there are going to be countless players in Prem Academies who simply can't afford to give up the money they are on by going to a League 1 or 2 team. There will be a serious amount of unrealised talent as a result of the changes.

it's also higher up the chain as well, look at Ozil £350k a week and barely featured in a year and not even in the league or Europe squads is hardly in a rush to go to Turkey or wherever when he can see out his contract for another 6 months

I am not suggesting he never wants to play but what is that teaching the youngsters on the books.

 

[Carpy]

it's also higher up the chain as well, look at Ozil £350k a week and barely featured in a year and not even in the league or Europe squads is hardly in a rush to go to Turkey or wherever when he can see out his contract for another 6 months

I am not suggesting he never wants to play but what is that teaching the youngsters on the books.

I agree it's obscene but I really can't blame either Ozil or the countless kids in Academies doing the same thing. The Prem won't change their model voluntarily but it frustrates me that the EFL are happy to create even greater gaps between the divisions.

I'm all for financial stability of clubs being important, but the measure is such a blunt instrument that the negatives outweigh the positives

 

[bazzer9461]

A good write up about our club, this is free publicity from a major source which hopefully if and when we look at other Premiership academy youngsters it might stand is in good stead.

 

[horseman]

A good write up about our club, this is free publicity from a major source which hopefully if and when we look at other Premiership academy youngsters it might stand is in good stead.

at what point do you need to stop being just seen as a stepping stone rather than opportunity to progress with us?

 

[Marked Ox]

Exactly

A kid signed at 11 by a prem club on silly money and mortgages etc paid for both parents is hardly going to change the mindset of players going forward.
That they're considerably rich by 16 or so and probably never going near a first team will matter not and a loan to the likes of Oxford has no appeal when the attitude is all about money instilled into them at such a young age.

Unless they already have the attitude that they want to achieve like Lunny, Rothwell, Cam Bran, Roofe, Lego etc.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

at what point do you need to stop being just seen as a stepping stone rather than opportunity to progress with us?

At the point you are *in* (and competitive in) the Championship and are thus seen as the club to progress *to* rather than *from*? But even then we might be seen as a steppingstone to clubs in the Prem, Players at the lower Prem clubs look for a step up to the higher ones, and even some of the players in the higher clubs end up going to a big European club!

I suppose the point is that any ambitious player is going to want to play at the highest level they can, so as soon as a player looks as if he could play at a higher level someone higher will make an offer.

 

[Carpy]

Unless they already have the attitude that they want to achieve like Lunny, Rothwell, Cam Bran, Roofe, Lego etc.

I think this is slightly unfair to be honest, footballers careers are very short, add to that the fact that as youngsters, they've not actually made it, I find it quite unsurprising that a lot of them take the money while it's offered

Of course, some believe in themselves enough to take the plunge, but it's not hard to see why some might worry about dropping out of the relative safety of Prem Academies

 

[Marked Ox]

I think this is slightly unfair to be honest, footballers careers are very short, add to that the fact that as youngsters, they've not actually made it, I find it quite unsurprising that a lot of them take the money while it's offered

Of course, some believe in themselves enough to take the plunge, but it's not hard to see why some might worry about dropping out of the relative safety of Prem Academies

I wasn't criticising others for taking the money but maybe didn't make that clear. Just that there are those who want to achieve and will drop to go back up.

 

[Marked Ox]

At the point you are *in* (and competitive in) the Championship and are thus seen as the club to progress *to* rather than *from*? But even then we might be seen as a steppingstone to clubs in the Prem, Players at the lower Prem clubs look for a step up to the higher ones, and even some of the players in the higher clubs end up going to a big European club!

I suppose the point is that any ambitious player is going to want to play at the highest level they can, so as soon as a player looks as if he could play at a higher level someone higher will make an offer.

The only clubs who aren't stepping stones are those at the very top of European football (ie. Real Madrid, Man City, Barcelona etc)

 

[bazzer9461]

at what point do you need to stop being just seen as a stepping stone rather than opportunity to progress with us?

Been saying that for years but keep getting told we are a selling club ( which in theory we are ) but we get a good team to get her and then sell a couple and we have to start all over again so tbf unless we have a season like last we won’t be anything more than a L1 side.

 

[Marked Ox]

Been saying that for years but keep getting told we are a selling club ( which in theory we are ) but we get a good team to get her and then sell a couple and we have to start all over again so tbf unless we have a season like last we won’t be anything more than a L1 side.

We lose £ms and that has to be covered somehow. It isn't a theory, we are a selling club and would be in the CHampionship as well. As said earlier even plenty of PL clubs are selling clubs.

 

[spmox]

We lose £ms and that has to be covered somehow. It isn't a theory, we are a selling club and would be in the CHampionship as well. As said earlier even plenty of PL clubs are selling clubs.

Southampton are a good example of a higher level selling club. Wouldn't mind being like them!

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Feels like a bit of a moot article now unfortunately. We wouldn’t be able to sign half the players we did in the past and who are mentioned in the piece, because the salary cap now makes them unaffordable. It’s too big of a drop and they would either go out on loan only or just sit and pick up their deals while they were there, and clubs like us wouldn’t have sold them for millions of pounds.

We would be nearly half a million quid short of being able to afford our L2 promotion team now, between what the wage bill was that season and what the cap is today. The likes of Ledson, Rothwell etc who only came in after we got into L1, when our wage bill went up further, would be even more unobtainable than the ones we managed to convince to come the season before.

 

[MarkG]

Feels like a bit of a moot article now unfortunately. We wouldn’t be able to sign half the players we did in the past and who are mentioned in the piece, because the salary cap now makes them unaffordable. It’s too big of a drop and they would either go out on loan only or just sit and pick up their deals while they were there, and clubs like us wouldn’t have sold them for millions of pounds.

We would be nearly half a million quid short of being able to afford our L2 promotion team now, between what the wage bill was that season and what the cap is today. The likes of Ledson, Rothwell etc who only came in after we got into L1, when our wage bill went up further, would be even more unobtainable than the ones we managed to convince to come the season before.

Rotherham complaining that L1 and L2 clubs can't afford to pay the loan wages of Championship players because of the salary cap.
Andy Holt says - "lower the loan wage then".

 

[RyanioBirdio]

Rotherham complaining that L1 and L2 clubs can't afford to pay the loan wages of Championship players because of the salary cap.
Andy Holt says - "lower the loan wage then".

It’s fine for him. His lot are punching above their weight playing any team bigger than Runcorn. It would be like me welcoming a price increase on Aston Martin’s.

 

[MarkG]

Feels like a bit of a moot article now unfortunately. We wouldn’t be able to sign half the players we did in the past and who are mentioned in the piece, because the salary cap now makes them unaffordable. It’s too big of a drop and they would either go out on loan only or just sit and pick up their deals while they were there, and clubs like us wouldn’t have sold them for millions of pounds.

We would be nearly half a million quid short of being able to afford our L2 promotion team now, between what the wage bill was that season and what the cap is today. The likes of Ledson, Rothwell etc who only came in after we got into L1, when our wage bill went up further, would be even more unobtainable than the ones we managed to convince to come the season before.

yes - the example of players not going out on loan because the loanee club can't afford the salary is a bit of a distraction.
They were never our players so even if we improve them, we don't get a transfer fee.

As you say, the issue is that once a player gets signed from the academy onto a decent professional wage on a three or five year deal at a Premier League / Championship club, they are hardly going to stick their hand up and ask to be released to get more game time, as the L1 and L2 wages simply won't compete.