General The Injured Midfield

[beyondthefourth]

I’d like to know what Hall’s supporters see in him. Please?

I see him having been badly injured for two years, and having worked his way back from a point where some of us thought he might not ever kick a ball again. Before that I saw a lot of magic.

I still count 5 goals this year in cup competitions. Most against questionable competition, but there are returns nonetheless.

I see a fairly full treatment room, and our manager having to utilise the squad at his disposal. And in our squad, he's turning towards a player he knows very well, and trying to coax out of him whatever ability and quality remains in his legs. In an ideal world, it'd be for the last 20 minutes of a game, but at the moment it has to last for 70-90.

Mostly, I see an Oxford United shirt on his back. So I am a Rob Hall 'supporter'.

 

[Left Wing Cross]

I wonder if it's worth not taking risks at MK (though the 3 points are desperately needed) and just making sure we have a fully fit side:

Archer

Cadden Dickie Moore Ruffels

Sykes Gorrin Mous Fosu

Taylor Mackie

​

Even if Brannagan and Baptiste are technically 'fit', there's no way they should be starting next week having been out for up to a month each.

It's a very defensive setup, but keep the midfield four compact and get the central pair to sit back. Then we can let Cadden, Ruffels, and perhaps even Dickie wander further up the pitch.

I'll suggest something a little different:

Archer
Cadden Dickie Mous Long
Gorrin Ruffels
Hall Sykes Fosu
Taylor​

It'll compromise us out on the left wing but Long has already filled in there this season, Ruffels still has the engine to go box-to-box and it minimises the disruption in other positions.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I see some improvement every time Hall plays.

I don't as yet see a player who has got close enough back to his best to start a game - except when the manager has little choice.

 

[greatunclekip]

To be fair, Robbo has already identified the need for a pacy right sided winger in Jan.

Hally is inproving for sure, but isnt a starting winger at this point.

 

[Shosho]

I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest the squad has now moved on from Hall - that’s not a slight on Hall but a reflection of how the club have progressed.

 

[Scotchegg]

I don’t think it’s unfair to suggest the squad has now moved on from Hall - that’s not a slight on Hall but a reflection of how the club have progressed.

In the same way I don't think it's unfair to say that Hall shouldn't be made a scapegoat and that he has a contribution to make even if down the pecking order.

 

[uptheus]

I see some improvement every time Hall plays.

I don't as yet see a player who has got close enough back to his best to start a game - except when the manager has little choice.

Not yesterday though, don’t remember him doing anything, almost forgot he was on the pitch.

 

[Canterbury exile]

Re Hall i agree he contributed little either in final third or defensively. He was like a lost soul but has shown sparks previously. Jordan Graham would be a better bet by far had we signed him but he had his faults too. We miss Gavin Whyte when counter attacking and also opening up defensive, nasty sides but feel sure KR will address that come January. Cadden in front of Long seems the best short term solution until Baptiste, Cam , Woodburn and Henry are back. Sykes is better wide too. Lacks the physical presence and awareness for central midfield in my opinion. Wycombe will be more robust and press even more than Shrews. I fancy Mackie may relish that sort of game.

 

[Oxford84]

Don't think Hall should play in that wide area when he cant do a defensive roll anymore,would much prefer him playing a free roll behind the striker if there was a slight change in the formation.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Not yesterday though, don’t remember him doing anything, almost forgot he was on the pitch.

I agree generally, although there was one nice mazy run that he finished off by falling over in their pen area in the first half - not enough though. The problem is that he is OK coming on (depending on the match situation) when the rest of the players are tiring a bit, but he definitely shouldn't come on to start. He doesn't track back at all, is still leery of making much of a tackle and his pace has definitely gone down a gear or two. His performance wasn't to blame yesterday though, I thought taking Henry out of the attack to prop up the defensive midfield was very odd when Moore looks excellent at left central defence and Mous is an experienced DM. Henry wasn't brilliant further back and we missed him up the pitch. A combination of a 'streetwise' ( I think that's the polite expression!) opposition, an odd team selection, a weak ref and some under par performances by many contributed.

 

[Ian]

Eastwood
Hanson ?? Thorne Forde
Baptiste Gorrin Brannagan
Henry Napa Woodburn

Not far away from a competitive unavailable XI

This team demonstrates how we lack defenders, a fast winger and a 20-goal a season striker.

We need a bigger squad so we can enjoy more injuries!

 

[Shosho]

In the same way I don't think it's unfair to say that Hall shouldn't be made a scapegoat and that he has a contribution to make even if down the pecking order.

I don’t think he should be scapegoat - at this point we all accept his limitations. He shoots from rubbish areas, doesn’t appear to take on players like he used to and doesn’t contribute enough out of possession...that said, coming on for the last 15/20 of a match is fine.

 

[TailsWeWin]

I don’t think he should be scapegoat - at this point we all accept his limitations. He shoots from rubbish areas, doesn’t appear to take on players like he used to and doesn’t contribute enough out of possession...that said, coming on for the last 15/20 of a match is fine.

Agree entirely. He’s not a “scapegoat” but I think his failings need to be acknowledged not brushed over for sentimental reasons. He is not making enough of an impact and should not be played from the start. I realise he has had/still has problems maintaining past form but the fact remains he is not doing the job we need done in attack or defence. On too many occasions we have been ‘carrying’ him or covering for him. In the present circumstances we do not have that luxury.

 

[Scotchegg]

Agree entirely. He’s not a “scapegoat” but I think his failings need to be acknowledged not brushed over for sentimental reasons. He is not making enough of an impact and should not be played from the start. I realise he has had/still has problems maintaining past form but the fact remains he is not doing the job we need done in attack or defence. On too many occasions we have been ‘carrying’ him or covering for him. In the present circumstances we do not have that luxury.

No one is brushing over his failings for sentimental reasons, but Saturday we had little choice over who played. Our injuries have been horrendous this season and you can understand why KR was reluctant to start Dickie, Moore and Mous together if could be avoided. So therefore we needed to look at others options for DM. Henry has previously spoken about adapting his game and likely put his hands up to play that role. He's not afraid of putting a tackle in, reads the game well and can pick a pass to turn defence into attack. It didn't work that way, but it wasn't the worst idea ever. So having dropped Henry back, we really only have a couple of options. Hall or Ageyi to play on the right. Neither have pulled up trees this season, so you have to choose from experience or pace. Robinson went with the experience of Hall. Again, in the circumstances, not the worst idea ever!

So it's one thing to be frustrated at how Hall is not as good as others but when you come out with;

"Hall is a waste of time, sorry. Get rid"

Then you are not being realistic. Maybe you could tell us what you have seen in Ageyi that would have made him a better choice?

 

[ZeroTheHero]

... you can understand why KR was reluctant to start Dickie, Moore and Mous together if could be avoided.

Can you explain that to me, because I genuinely can't understand it! Dickie and Moore have shown themselves to be a very effective centre back pairing and Mous is an experienced DM (in a position where his lack of pace isn't so much of a factor). Henry isn't an experienced DM and we missed him in attack.

 

[Shosho]

Can you explain that to me, because I genuinely can't understand it! Dickie and Moore have shown themselves to be a very effective centre back pairing and Mous is an experienced DM (in a position where his lack of pace isn't so much of a factor). Henry isn't an experienced DM and we missed him in attack.

I understand dropping Henry back, he does see himself best as an 8, however there might be an element of KR over thinking it. Mousinho holding makes sense, he just isn't as good on the ball as Henry or Gorrin.

This just furthers the thought that Gorrin pretty much the most valuable player to how we set up - in as much that we don't currently have a fit deputy that can fill DM.

This is where KR earns his money, our injuries are ridiculous at the minute but much like the start of last season we can't allow that to derail us

 

[ZeroTheHero]

At least Gorrin was suspension rather than an injury, so will be straight back.

 

[Followtheox1]

Can you explain that to me, because I genuinely can't understand it! Dickie and Moore have shown themselves to be a very effective centre back pairing and Mous is an experienced DM (in a position where his lack of pace isn't so much of a factor). Henry isn't an experienced DM and we missed him in attack.

I think when you play all three it runs the risk of not having out and out centre back cover,other than youngsters,on the bench.

 

[Scotchegg]

Can you explain that to me, because I genuinely can't understand it! Dickie and Moore have shown themselves to be a very effective centre back pairing and Mous is an experienced DM (in a position where his lack of pace isn't so much of a factor). Henry isn't an experienced DM and we missed him in attack.

Because we have 3 centre backs and when going into a very busy month we really don't want to be losing any. If tackles are flying in the middle of the pitch, the last thing we need is Mous getting cropped!!!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Hmm, well on that basis there are a lot of players you wouldn't want to play because they might get injured! In this case we only needed cover for one game as Gorrin will be back next match. I'm not sure Henry is altogether replaceable, but he was put there (and was injured - you really cannot predict these things). I think I'd have taken the risk with Mous - he's not a delicate little flower .

 

[MJB]

Managing Brannagan’s expectations in relation to the Man City game might be difficult.

Given that he is a) from Manchester, b) supports Manchester United, c) played in the Man City Academy, d) played for Liverpool, e) wants to play every game and f) understandably wants to put himself in the shop window - there’s lots of reasons why he will be desperate I’m sure!

Would be a tragedy if he got injured coming back too for a glamour tie, but one which ultimately is less important that the league games around it...

 

[uptheus]

Can you explain that to me, because I genuinely can't understand it! Dickie and Moore have shown themselves to be a very effective centre back pairing and Mous is an experienced DM (in a position where his lack of pace isn't so much of a factor). Henry isn't an experienced DM and we missed him in attack.

Totally agree with you, but Robinson said he didn’t want to put Mousinho in that position again or word to that effect.

 

[uptheus]

I understand dropping Henry back, he does see himself best as an 8, however there might be an element of KR over thinking it. Mousinho holding makes sense, he just isn't as good on the ball as Henry or Gorrin.

This just furthers the thought that Gorrin pretty much the most valuable player to how we set up - in as much that we don't currently have a fit deputy that can fill DM.

This is where KR earns his money, our injuries are ridiculous at the minute but much like the start of last season we can't allow that to derail us

The difference between Mousinho and Gorrin is, Gorrin has more energy and quicker tempo which suits the way we play. A bit like Kante for Chelsea and previously at Leicester.

On Saturday I was hoping that Henry would have been like Lundstrum, but his range of passing wasn’t as good, and he’s generally too slow/needs the extra touch which means options get closed down quicker. So based on the two and with limited choices, I’d go back on my opinions and pick Mousinho over Henry in that position.

 

[Junior_1]

I'm assuming that you're talking about Shandon Baptiste but the way you post suggests that KR is not being careful.

Baptiste has been really carefully looked after since he picked up an injury in his return to the side a year ago. It is why he has played less than many would have wanted. Robinson knows more than anyone the importance of keeping Shandon in a good place, both physically and mentally and will not rush him back. It's also why he is being protected from transfer speculation. PL clubs have shown an interest but the club want to put the needs of Baptiste first, and think he will develop better here than in a PL youth set up where he'll be lost. The money being spoken of would be massive for someone with only 21 games under his belt at this level.

There are gambles every time a play steps on to the pitch, but you can absolutely guarantee that Baptiste will not be selected unless he is mentally and physically ready.

Your assumptions are wrong, shock.. From my feeds! This is 3 players now who’ve been put under pressure to “be back” before they are ready both mentally and physically. Before you try to shout me down with lines and lines of spin, are you aTorrie?

Now we’ve spoke privately about this kinda stuff and I’ve bit my tongue when you’ve gone on the pro.

One agency is representing a lot at OUFC.. they are control things

 

[Barbadosyellow]

Forde has four broken ribs and a punctured lung and is still in the JR. I presume he won't be back until late in the season.

 

[Scotchegg]

Your assumptions are wrong, shock.. From my feeds! This is 3 players now who’ve been put under pressure to “be back” before they are ready both mentally and physically. Before you try to shout me down with lines and lines of spin, are you aTorrie?

Now we’ve spoke privately about this kinda stuff and I’ve bit my tongue when you’ve gone on the pro.

One agency is representing a lot at OUFC.. they are control things

With all due respect, I'd suggest that this is bollox! Due you honestly think that an agency, who represent their players and earn from their success, would be pushing to get players back before they're ready? And I'm not sure that we've had anyone who has played when not fit? Except maybe Matty Taylor against Bristol Rovers, but that was a gamble worth taking on someone who was 95% ready.

We have the sports science guys and a highly regarded fitness coach. Are these guys honestly getting pushed around a bit by an agent, or an irresponsible manager?

Sorry, I'm sure you have your sources, and I don't doubt the fact that you're only repeating what you've heard, but I honestly can't see it.

 

[Foley]

Your assumptions are wrong, shock.. From my feeds! This is 3 players now who’ve been put under pressure to “be back” before they are ready both mentally and physically. Before you try to shout me down with lines and lines of spin, are you aTorrie?

Now we’ve spoke privately about this kinda stuff and I’ve bit my tongue when you’ve gone on the pro.

One agency is representing a lot at OUFC.. they are control things

?? I am not sure quite what you are suggesting.
So 3 players have been rushed back and pressurised into playing when they are not 'mentally' ready?
Are you saying that this does not include Baptiste?
The agency is in control of things at the club?
If what you are saying is remotely true. I assume that there are a lot of people at the club who are close to resigning as the club appears to pride itself in doing things right with the medical team and sports science?

 

[Scotchegg]

?? I am not sure quite what you are suggesting.
So 3 players have been rushed back and pressurised into playing when they are not 'mentally' ready?
Are you saying that this does not include Baptiste?
The agency is in control of things at the club?
If what you are saying is remotely true. I assume that there are a lot of people at the club who are close to resigning as the club appears to pride itself in doing things right with the medical team and sports science?

The thing is with Junior, I don't doubt that he has a good understanding of what happens at the club, and is clearly very informative about the develop of our next generation of players. However, like with the issue about a missed payment to the players in the summer, he does have the habit of adding 2 plus 2 and getting 5 billion!!!

I think that this is way of track, not least as I genuinely can't think of anyone who have come back in and appeared not to be ready. Fosu at the beginning of the season looked knackered, but that's more to do with building stamina. Taylor wasn't 100% against Bristol Rovers but the gamble was that he'd be fired up and take the game to them. His injury was maybe the consequence of this gamble. Thorne came back but suffered a completely unrelated injury, and Hanson did everything right but then did his other hamstring. So I can't believe anyone could claim that these were rushed back?

And then on the other hand, Baptiste has repeatedly been held back and protected, and Brannagan has been desperate to play for a couple of weeks. Both are expected to be eased back in. Also Ageyi was been called for, but Robinson knew that his fitness wasn't good enough, so he never even made the bench at times when we were struggling.

So I'm really unsure how anyone could claim that even one player was pressured into playing let alone 3. I'm sure that this will become a battle of who know what, but I'd hope that if there were real concerns that Junior would be more explicit rather than some random suggestion without anything to back it up.

 

[Scotchegg]

Just one more point on this, then I'll leave it for @Junior_1 to explain his position.

The BT interview with Karl Robinson included conversations about mental wellbeing and why it is so important to look for for young men in an industry that rarely allows people to openly talk about their issues. Does this really sound like the kind of set up that would then push players into games at the say so of an agent?

 

[ttg17]

Club's FB page posted this today, caption "The selection board in the gaffer’s office" (plus a few injury-related emojis). Pretty mad. Could be worth bringing Berkoe back and using Ruffs in CM until we have a bit more cover?