The championship

After the 7-0 thrashing Luton received earlier at Brentford. It got me thinking are we actually ready to go up and compete in that league. Obviously we can improve the squad but unless we have a healthy budget we could struggle like they are which might have more of a negative affect to the club than staying in league 1 and progressing more in the cups. I personally think we need to sort the stadium issue out first before we move up the football pyramid.
 
Let’s keep our feet firmly on the ground. No need to get ahead of ourselves, yes we are playing good football, and enjoying a long unbeaten run. I would love nothing more than to get promoted, but it’s a long season, and I’m sure there are many twists and turns before May. Let’s just support the team and get behind the manager and coaching staff, and see what happens. Great time to be a Yellow!
 
Anyone who thinks we're going to get into the Championship and then immediately rocket up that league and challenge for promotion to the Premier League is likely a bit delusional. I think you're right in saying that we need to sort out the stadium before we can compete on an even footing with 90% of the current Championship clubs. We would almost certainly end up in a similar situation as Luton are in now.

But would that really be a bad thing? Yes, they got thrashed today - but they're still outside the bottom three. They're in a relegation scrap, sure - but they're by no means doomed. And they're getting regular crowds of 10k as they get to face off against a host of big, traditional clubs.

After where we've been for the past twenty years, it frankly sounds like a lot of fun to me.....
 
Anyone who thinks we're going to get into the Championship and then immediately rocket up that league and challenge for promotion to the Premier League is likely a bit delusional. I think you're right in saying that we need to sort out the stadium before we can compete on an even footing with 90% of the current Championship clubs. We would almost certainly end up in a similar situation as Luton are in now.

But would that really be a bad thing? Yes, they got thrashed today - but they're still outside the bottom three. They're in a relegation scrap, sure - but they're by no means doomed. And they're getting regular crowds of 10k as they get to face off against a host of big, traditional clubs.

After where we've been for the past twenty years, it frankly sounds like a lot of fun to me.....

I agree it would be nice to face alot of the clubs in that league and attendances will increase slightly. Im just worried about the financial side for the club. Wasn't the reason Eeals sold the club was because he couldn't afford to run us in the championship. Maybe Tiger and the board can who knows. Just think we would be in a better position to be able to sustain the league status if we sort the stadium issue out first and all the extra revenue from events, food etc will help towards this.
 
I agree it would be nice to face alot of the clubs in that league and attendances will increase slightly. Im just worried about the financial side for the club. Wasn't the reason Eeals sold the club was because he couldn't afford to run us in the championship. Maybe Tiger and the board can who knows. Just think we would be in a better position to be able to sustain the league status if we sort the stadium issue out first and all the extra revenue from events, food etc will help towards this.

You don't have to massively increase you wage bill just because you get into the Championship. I don't believe Burton did, and they lasted a couple of years.

You get a few million more in TV money and Premier League solidarity payments, so a small increase in the wage bill is sustainable.

As long as we were sensible, and didn't try to compete on an even financial footing with the average Championship teams, we'd been fine financially.
 
You don't have to massively increase you wage bill just because you get into the Championship. I don't believe Burton did, and they lasted a couple of years.

You get a few million more in TV money and Premier League solidarity payments, so a small increase in the wage bill is sustainable.

As long as we were sensible, and didn't try to compete on an even financial footing with the average Championship teams, we'd been fine financially.

Yes Burton is a good example of how to go about it. Didn't realise tv money went up alot more in the championship though or the Premier league solidarity payments so aslong as we are sensible we will be fine.

I wouldn't go crazy in January like some of are fans are wanting to get promotion. I would be happy with a play off spot and hopefully some good news from the board regarding the stadium issue.
 
You don't have to massively increase you wage bill just because you get into the Championship. I don't believe Burton did, and they lasted a couple of years.

You get a few million more in TV money and Premier League solidarity payments, so a small increase in the wage bill is sustainable.

As long as we were sensible, and didn't try to compete on an even financial footing with the average Championship teams, we'd been fine financially.

Ok look up what burton’s wage bill was in the championship. I’ll give you a clue it was about £14M. If I remember correctly. And that was to get relegated.

Now how are we going to be sensible and compete ?
 
Some player's wages might substantially increase were we to get promoted anyway. You'd hope investment would be found.
 
We’d likely be bottom 3 attendance wise, and you’d imagine our budget would be a similar level, it’s doable but it’d be bloody hard to stay up imo
 
Ok look up what burton’s wage bill was in the championship. I’ll give you a clue it was about £14M. If I remember correctly. And that was to get relegated.

Now how are we going to be sensible and compete ?

OK, I did look it up - they made a 500k profit on revenues of £13m

No significant transfers out that season (other than JM!) so their wage bill can't have been anywhere near £14M.

Again, not saying we would be anywhere near a competitive budget in the Championship, but there's no reason we couldn't be run sensibly and have a shot at staying up.
 
Thinkni read that Sheff utd got promoted from the champ without increasing their wage budget significantly from league 1.

Leicester won the prem on a fraction of the wage budget if the normal contenders.

With the right manager we could be succesful in the champ with a low end budget.
 
OK, I did look it up - they made a 500k profit on revenues of £13m

No significant transfers out that season (other than JM!) so their wage bill can't have been anywhere near £14M.

Again, not saying we would be anywhere near a competitive budget in the Championship, but there's no reason we couldn't be run sensibly and have a shot at staying up.

I’ll check when back from Walsall and in front of a pc. Maybe not 14 but I’m fairly sure it was at least twice our wage bill.
 
Problem is if we go up and we recruit new players on higher wages than currently. What happens if we are relegated. I'm guessing the wages would be the same for the length of their contract.
It depends on how their contract is could be 3k per week in the championship but get relegated you stay on 3k because of parachute payments but if we’re not promoted your wage could go down to 1.5k a week
 
I’ll check when back from Walsall and in front of a pc. Maybe not 14 but I’m fairly sure it was at least twice our wage bill.

Here's another one that suggests Burton were operating a wage bill of around 10m:


Now that's still obviously a lot higher than we're currently at (maybe double?). But TV money and solidarity payments bring in about an extra 6-7m when you're in the Championship, plus we might expect a bump in match day income that brings in another ~1m.

So we could sustainably run in the Championship with a wage bill that's that high.

Of course, the problem is that the average Championship wage bill is around 25m.

Which brings me back to my original point - you can operate in the Championship without putting the club's future in jeopardy. This would likely mean accepting a relegation battle from the outset.....but, I think that could still be fun given the size and profile of club we'd be able to pit ourselves against......
 
After the 7-0 thrashing Luton received earlier at Brentford. It got me thinking are we actually ready to go up and compete in that league. Obviously we can improve the squad but unless we have a healthy budget we could struggle like they are which might have more of a negative affect to the club than staying in league 1 and progressing more in the cups. I personally think we need to sort the stadium issue out first before we move up the football pyramid.
Well we won’t turn down promotion. It will be tough but Luton could still stay up. We may have to accept bouncing between the leagues a bit before we’re ready to compete in the championship. But we’re getting ahead of ourselves!
 
Can just picture it us in the bottom 4 this time next year in the championship and this forum
Calling for kr and tiger to go ? I’d rather be a Wigan/Barnsley and yo yo between the 2 divisions for a few Seasons than just be a mid table league 1 team for the next 10 years lol
 
Can just picture it us in the bottom 4 this time next year in the championship and this forum
Calling for kr and tiger to go ? I’d rather be a Wigan/Barnsley and yo yo between the 2 divisions for a few Seasons than just be a mid table league 1 team for the next 10 years lol
Yes that’s the next step I think. At the end of the day that would be profitable and very good exciting entertainment
 
Putting it into perspective, this time ten years ago we were in the Conference. Anything that happens is a bonus - to be unbeaten in 16 in League One is an absolute dream compared to some of the teams we were playing against a decade ago. Maybe we will go up this year, maybe we won't, but personally I'm delighted with how we're playing at the minute and how far we've come. COYY!
 
Think the stadium rent goes up if we get into the Championship which doesn’t help
 
Information in accounts might not tell the full story, but for what it is worth here is a bit of data from Burton:

Year endLeague finishTurnoverOperating profit/(loss)Staff costs
May 2018Championship – 23rd12,920,591(292,711)9,953,274
May 2017Championship – 20th11,442,6621,344,2667,671,313
May 2016League One – 2nd4,240,834(3,983)3,641,823
May 2015League Two – 1st2,708,642(444,514)2,652,712

In 2017 Burton showed it was possible to survive in the Championship. They increased turnover by 170% whilst total staff costs went up 111%. They also turned a tidy profit of £1.3m.

In 2018 Burton got relegated. Turnover increased another 13% (which at least suggests it isn't entirely dependent on survival) although staff costs began to catch up, increasing by 30%. It's worth noting that the operating loss turned into a profit of circa £0.5m when you took into account player trading.

In their 2018 accounts they also show a split of turnover - £11m was commercial, the rest gate receipts (therefore we can say commercial actually means 'things that aren't ticket money'). In 2017, just shy of £10m was commercial. That gives a pretty big hint at where the jump in turnover from League One to the Champ comes from.

More importantly, last year Burton finished 9th in League One and reached the semi final of a major cup. This year they are currently 14th, and they taught us a lesson on our own patch. Their stadium holds less than 7k, and given their history I think it's fair to say they are still punching way above their own weight. They are probably an exceptionally run club and it wouldn't be easy to emulate, but I'd suggest romping through the leagues has hardly been ruinous on the pitch (although it'd be nice to see accounts for May 2019 and see how things looked back in League One).

Anyone interested in how OUFC stack up:

Year endLeague FinishTurnoverOperating profit/(loss)
May 2018League One – 16th5,589,591(4,247,615)
May 2017League One – 8th6,987,288(1,521,411)
May 2016League Two – 2nd5,148,655(1,814,396)
May 2015League Two – 13th2,923,623(2,371,803)

You can see that we were actually in a pretty similar place in 2015. Burton then started to move ahead of us on the pitch, but we had higher income in 2016 in League Two than they had, a full division higher (Wembley probably helped!). However, if you compare like-for-like numbers in League One or League Two then we are always ahead.

Our operating loss figures should be taken with caution because we all know that Ox have sold plenty of players during this stretch, which isn't included.

It's also worth remembering the John Lennon quote, 'life is what happens when you are busy making other plans'. I would never wish away a charge for promotion just because the infrastructure might be better in two years time. If you could win promotion whenever you really wanted it, every team would be promoted every year. We could sell players, lose players, lose managers, there could be better teams - football changes overnight, if we don't go up this year there is no reason we couldn't be relegated back into League Two the year after.

The price of the stadium probably increases with promotion, but it must be easier to secure financing when you are higher profile, when you have more fans coming into the ground and more commercial money through the door. When you sell players, they probably sell for more. Besides which, promotion would mean we have had a 2019/20 campaign that will be talked about in the same way as 2010, 2015 or anything before that. We'll have a better shot at keeping our best players, and we'll have at least a season in the Championship, testing our mettle against bigger and better sides. And Reading.
 
I’d be happy switching between L1 and the championship for some years.
I once heard David Pleat say he’d rather finish 18th or 19th every season in Division One rather than drop to Division Two.
I am sure I wouldn’t rather see struggle season after season in the same league with crowds struggling.
Burton is a gold role model and it looks sustainable. What has happened to Luton looks dire. A 0-7 reverse will do their confidence a lot of harm in their current situation.
Barnsley only got their second win and Wigan look on a bad run too.
Surprised Reading are doing well
 
I’d say we have 9 championship quality players already in the squad,
Easty, dickie, Moore,Gorrin,brannagan,fosu,Taylor,Henry,
Baptiste

wouldn’t have to go wild on players
If and it’s a big if we get promoted, I’d love Leeds/derby/Birmingham etc here and going away obviously
 
It’d be nice to get Brighton home and away too.
I think Leeds will be going up, but Reading would be a good encounter.
long way to go. If we don’t go up we might lose a couple of players or more
 
It’d be nice to get Brighton home and away too.
I think Leeds will be going up, but Reading would be a good encounter.
long way to go. If we don’t go up we might lose a couple of players or more

Watford will be a close one should we go up as unless they get a miracle they look doomed to relegation.
 
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