International Politics The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[HayfieldYellow]

Macron grown up?

What are you talking about? When did I express an opinion about Macron?

 

[HayfieldYellow]

Where have I made the claim Farage is the adult in the room? He's a disruptor.

So because I vote Lib Dem (or would if I wasn't forced to vote tactically in my Tory/Labour marginal), you can assume I automatically agree with everything that random Lib Dems say (or wear) - but I can't use the same tactic?

Immediately not accepting the result of a referendum isn't exactly the position of democracy-lovers is it? They threw a tantrum on the world stage about a democratic result, the irony wasn't lost on the majority.

What a weird take. Why should Lib Dems immediately abandon their views and accept that they were wrong, just because they lost the referendum? You have a very strange idea of democracy. By the same weird logic, I don't want to hear any criticism from you of the Labour Party. They won the 2024 election fair and square so you are not allowed to disagree with their policies. Being a member of the opposition and expressing opposing views is undemocratic, apparently.

Not only will Reform wipe the floor with the Lib Dems at the next GE, the Green Party will too. The best they can hope for is being the 5th largest party at the next GE, but time will tell.

Quite possibly. And when they don't immediately fix all the UK's problems you'll still blame "the left".

 

[bazzer9461]

What are you talking about? When did I express an opinion about Macron?

You mentioned Starmer ( the liar ) wants a grown up conversation with European leaders so I presume you mean Macron in that group he isn’t grown up and while Starmer is the PM he will never be grown up to have an intelligent conversation, o still cringe at the way he told that muppets Trump that he had a letter from the king in his pocket where he had been invited to a full state visit, when in all truth that was Labour making the invite and Starmer telling the king that’s what’s going to happen

 

[bazzer9461]

So because I vote Lib Dem (or would if I wasn't forced to vote tactically in my Tory/Labour marginal), you can assume I automatically agree with everything that random Lib Dems say (or wear) - but I can't use the same tactic?



What a weird take. Why should Lib Dems immediately abandon their views and join the opposition, just because they lost the referendum? You have a very strange idea of democracy. By the same weird logic, I don't want to hear any criticism from you of the Labour Party. They won the 2024 election fair and square so you are not allowed to disagree with their policies. Being a member of the opposition is undemocratic, apparently.



Quite possibly. And when they don't immediately fix all the UK's problems you'll still blame "the left".

So you’re Libyan supporter?

 

[HayfieldYellow]

You mentioned Starmer ( the liar ) wants a grown up conversation with European leaders so I presume you mean Macron in that group he isn’t grown up and while Starmer is the PM he will never be grown up to have an intelligent conversation, o still cringe at the way he told that muppets Trump that he had a letter from the king in his pocket where he had been invited to a full state visit, when in all truth that was Labour making the invite and Starmer telling the king that’s what’s going to happen

Er, OK. By all means invent strange opinions for me and then argue with your inventions. You win, apparently.

 

[HayfieldYellow]

So you’re Libyan supporter?

What??? Where did that come from?

 

[m]

Not one leave voter voted leave because of "Russian interference"

It's a Remainer fantasy.

Are you refusing to answer the question because you don't understand it, or is there another reason?

 

[bazzer9461]

You know what, Baz, I don't think we get to pick and choose. You can't have the benefits without the obligations. That's kind of the whole point.

But if we were to rejoin without a referendum because Starmer says so I hope which I doubt very much he will insist an certainty things where we will benefit, because I truly believe we will be stitched up by the Eu because of us leaving.

 

[bazzer9461]

Er, OK. By all means invent strange opinions for me and then argue with your inventions. You win, apparently.

Open your eyes

 

[bazzer9461]

What??? Where did that come from?

So because I vote Lib Dem ( from post 6752 )

 

[HayfieldYellow]

So because I vote Lib Dem ( from post 6752 )

What's that got to do with Libyans? I'm genuinely confused.

 

[HayfieldYellow]

But if we were to rejoin without a referendum because Starmer says so I hope which I doubt very much he will insist an certainty things where we will benefit, because I truly believe we will be stitched up by the Eu because of us leaving.

We won't be rejoining the EU for a long time, if ever, sadly. And certainly not under a Starmer government, or because of his "say so". You have some very strange ideas about
how politics works.

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

What's that got to do with Libyans? I'm genuinely confused.

You're not familiar with the terrible affliction of Bazafingus are you?

 

[Marston Road Yellow]

I’ve wasted a whole day on this and it’s been fun!

I don’t think brexiteers are thick, I just don’t agree with you at all. I do think darker forces orchestrated it and I think those dark forces have only just started.

I genuinely think Farage ( and his pals Putin and Trump) has an evil and wholly self serving intent.

I’m convinced that a large number of people are being hoodwinked into thinking this evil will fix things in the UK, when I believe it will serve the very few and make us that are not super rich struggle to make ends meet.

When I say hoodwinked I do not mean thick, just fed up, quite rightly by the tories and now labour lazily churning out the same basically corrupt governance, having made promises that they can’t keep, and believing a very convincing liar that he can sort it all out.

I think a lot of us see things like this and I for one think this is an battle of good v evil

I know I’ll get a kicking for this but my basic position is peace, love, freedom and respect. And I know on here I do sometimes forget that but I do love a good old argument.

I do beg that you look at Farage properly and see what he is saying about things like the NHS and who is funding him ( and why)

If you were employing this man you would do your due diligence on him ( better than Starmer did with Mandy)

Do I know what the alternative is? No

Labour have an opportunity to reform parliament but I don’t think that they will. They think it’s about them.
The conservatives really don’t know which way to turn. The greens seem lovely but utterly politically inept and the Lib Dem’s are trying to be all things to all men.

I am hoping that soon a decent honest strong leader will appear amongst this lot to fight the coming darkness but I can’t see them arriving yet.

 

[bazzer9461]

We won't be rejoining the EU for a long time, if ever, sadly. And certainly not under a Starmer government, or because of his "say so". You have some very strange ideas about
how politics works.

Then why does the arrogant PM try and get closer links and he is, mins you all politicians are corrupt

 

[LowerSouth]

Then why does the arrogant PM try and get closer links and he is, mins you all politicians are corrupt

How is trying to make trade easier for UK business corrupt ?

 

[bazzer9461]

How is trying to make trade easier for UK business corrupt ?

Oh come on they’re all corrupt in Europe and with him denying he knew Mandelson knew Epstein when he did that’s corrupt and take the budget how they made a claim of a deficit that wasn’t more corruption and the tories don’t get away with it as I said they’re all corrupt. Meeting to make trade deals easier to make things better? Off course you welcome that, but at what cost.
Doing a deal with Trump over Cara exports which he accepted but at 10% torrid but do we charge the yanks a tarried for the same? No

 

[HayfieldYellow]

Then why does the arrogant PM try and get closer links and he is, mins you all politicians are corrupt

Because not having "closer links" with your own continent is politically stupid. Because the only reason not to cooperate with the EU is to indulge the obsessions of a declining rump of Brexit hardliners who won't vote for him anyway.

 

[chuckbert]

I’ve wasted a whole day on this and it’s been fun!

I don’t think brexiteers are thick, I just don’t agree with you at all. I do think darker forces orchestrated it and I think those dark forces have only just started.

I genuinely think Farage ( and his pals Putin and Trump) has an evil and wholly self serving intent.

I’m convinced that a large number of people are being hoodwinked into thinking this evil will fix things in the UK, when I believe it will serve the very few and make us that are not super rich struggle to make ends meet.

When I say hoodwinked I do not mean thick, just fed up, quite rightly by the tories and now labour lazily churning out the same basically corrupt governance, having made promises that they can’t keep, and believing a very convincing liar that he can sort it all out.

I think a lot of us see things like this and I for one think this is an battle of good v evil

I know I’ll get a kicking for this but my basic position is peace, love, freedom and respect. And I know on here I do sometimes forget that but I do love a good old argument.

I do beg that you look at Farage properly and see what he is saying about things like the NHS and who is funding him ( and why)

If you were employing this man you would do your due diligence on him ( better than Starmer did with Mandy)

Do I know what the alternative is? No

Labour have an opportunity to reform parliament but I don’t think that they will. They think it’s about them.
The conservatives really don’t know which way to turn. The greens seem lovely but utterly politically inept and the Lib Dem’s are trying to be all things to all men.

I am hoping that soon a decent honest strong leader will appear amongst this lot to fight the coming darkness but I can’t see them arriving yet.

One of the scary aspects IMHO is Bannon asking Epstein for cash to campaign for euroskeptic parties to increase their representation in the EU parliament from 90 to 200 so that they could stop legislation around crypto. Everyone who was whining about unelected EU bureaucrats might have a think about malign septics seeking to manipulate the EU elections for their own wealth.

 

[Digby]

So fantastic when going abroad straight though customs passport control now a queue for none EU travellers. And a 31billion buy out we had to pay thanks so much Johnson and Ferage both smarmy bastards ! Tell you what let’s all move out and let the illegals have the country, today they have stopped taxis taking illegals from there hotel to the Drs and return. What chance has our kids and grandkids got !!

 

[Burglar Bill]

The thing I find most strange about Brexit is how people still think there's going to be some sort of benefit if it's done 'properly', when the main players who sold it to us have either gone incredibly quiet or can't even agree what it meant among themselves.

Reform UK is just the latest 'us v them' that Farage and co have created to inflict as much disharmony and uncertainty as they possibly can which pours more and more money into their own bank accounts. Yet people who still hang on his every word seem to think he's on their side - when it's generally these very same people (see above, I'm sure) who claim all politicians are corrupt ("so I'm voting Reform" ).

Telling us ahead of the referendum in 2016 that a leave vote would stem immigration and that we shouldn't listen to economists because what do they know has aged horrifically, but just as long as Farage stays just outside of 'power' he can continue to string people along by saying he'd do things differently and push the boundaries of the political and economic suicide we're inflicting on ourselves.

"The British public voted to leave" - yes, but 52-48 when many of that 52 believed they were voting to remain in the Customs Union as had been promised by a number of people, not to mention keeping their human rights. Brexiteers say they're fed up of anyone who dares question the merits of the leave vote now as 'remoaners' looking to stifle democracy. As someone who was very much in the 48, I'm personally fed up of hearing about what "the country" voted for. Demographics would tell you a great deal more leave voters will have kicked it since 2016, so yes Leave won the vote but don't tell me restricting my rights to work abroad and creating a huge hole in the economy is the will of the nation.

And at the risk of posting in the wrong thread, Reform UK is just an extension of "let's see how much of the British stupidity we can get away with". Set up by the chancers that brought you Brexit, and now recruiting failed politicians who are desperate to salvage a career, here's a group of very good communicators who know exactly how to push the right buttons to cause anger and resentment among anyone they still have a use for. Basically if you don't enjoy the job you've got or the house you live in, they want you to feel as bitter as they possibly can - but not at them:

Legal and now iIllegal immigrants, people with office jobs they can do from home (obviously lazy, even though they've probably worked harder at some point in life to have a job they enjoy rather than one they endure), 'the elite' (aka Farage, no? BUT HE SMOKES AND ENJOYS A PINT AND PRETENDS TO BE PATRIOTIC), 'the EU bureaucrats' opening doors of opportunity to anyone with ambition, 'the benefits scroungers' (conveniently forgetting how much many of their voters loved furlough), Net Zero (because who gives a s**t about our kids, or what scientists think), what schools are teaching (because it's 2026 apparently), and most of all 'wokeness' because showing compassion is a barrier to everything they want to achieve.

 

[HayfieldYellow]

denying he knew Mandelson knew Epstein

False. I'm not defending Starmer's handling of the Mandelson/Epstein affair - it's been inept from start to finish and Mandelson should never have been appointed given what people apparently knew - but Starmer never denied that he "knew Mandelson knew Epstein". He denied knowing that Mandelson continued associating with Epstein after Epstein's conviction. Neither is defensible, but those two things are very different - you should be more careful in your accusations if you want to be taken seriously.

Farage has been saying that Starmer should resign for his "grave error of judgement" over Mandelson's appointment. Meanwhile, this was his reation at the time: "I might disagree with Mandelson on his politics, but he's a very intelligent man" and would be good choice for ambassador. Farage is a fraud and a hypocrite, but he gets so much less scrutiny and grief than Starmer. Can't possibly think why.

 

[bazzer9461]

False. I'm not defending Starmer's handling of the Mandelson/Epstein affair - it's been inept from start to finish and Mandelson should never have been appointed given what people apparently knew - but Starmer never denied that he "knew Mandelson knew Epstein". He denied knowing that Mandelson continued associating with Epstein after Epstein's conviction. Neither is defensible, but those two things are very different - you should be more careful in your accusations if you want to be taken seriously.

Farage has been saying that Starmer should resign for his "grave error of judgement" over Mandelson's appointment. Meanwhile, this was his reation at the time: "I might disagree with Mandelson on his politics, but he's a very intelligent man" and would be good choice for ambassador. Farage is a fraud and a hypocrite, but he gets so much less scrutiny and grief than Starmer. Can't possibly think why.

Not denying what you’re saying but Starmer has to go…..and I’ve no idea why you e brought Farage onto all this he means nothing to me and hasn’t my vote

 

[Osei Yaw]

Brexit cost 6% of UK economy, Bank of England company data suggests

Analysis showed how much the UK could have grown if it had not exited the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

I recall a couple of the key arguments for Brexit were that we could take control of our borders and also fund the NHS more. And so even though it's disappointing to see our economy has taken a real hit, we can at least take comfort from the fact that we no longer have concerns about immigration and that the NHS is in the best state it's ever been.

And we got some blue passports.

 

[chuckbert]

Brexit cost 6% of UK economy, Bank of England company data suggests

Analysis showed how much the UK could have grown if it had not exited the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

I recall a couple of the key arguments for Brexit was that we could take control of our borders and also fund the NHS more. And so even though it's disappointing to see our economy has taken a real hit, we can at least take comfort from the fact that we no longer have concerns about immigration and that the NHS is in the best state it's ever been.

And we got some blue passports.

Luckily the British economy is set up so those with money aren’t affected and so the pain is borne by the most disadvantaged. Phew. /s

 

[Burglar Bill]

Brexit cost 6% of UK economy, Bank of England company data suggests

Analysis showed how much the UK could have grown if it had not exited the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

I recall a couple of the key arguments for Brexit was that we could take control of our borders and also fund the NHS more. And so even though it's disappointing to see our economy has taken a real hit, we can at least take comfort from the fact that we no longer have concerns about immigration and that the NHS is in the best state it's ever been.

And we got some blue passports.

Really makes you wonder why Reform UK and the Brexit loyalists could possibly want to discredit experts, and stop people going to university to get an eduation.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

There was a really interesting YT post that I happened to come across, which - despite the clickbait headline - did quite an interesting job of looking at how the American education system and media have actually be designed to keep people only as educated and informed as they need to be to do their jobs and pay their taxes. Critical thinking not required.

Worth a watch.

Warning for the forum neanderthals: the presenter is a woman, a bit bolshie and is Australian, so if your particular trigger is being told stuff by any of those, please ignore this post!

 

[Village-Yellow]

Brexit cost 6% of UK economy, Bank of England company data suggests

Analysis showed how much the UK could have grown if it had not exited the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

I recall a couple of the key arguments for Brexit were that we could take control of our borders and also fund the NHS more. And so even though it's disappointing to see our economy has taken a real hit, we can at least take comfort from the fact that we no longer have concerns about immigration and that the NHS is in the best state it's ever been.

And we got some blue passports.

I shouldnt worry, Labour are in the process or sorting all that out.

They just need some time, that's all.

Thank Christ that this party will not have the distraction of getting embroiled with infighting and leadership campaigns like the previous shower.

 

[Village-Yellow]

Luckily the British economy is set up so those with money aren’t affected and so the pain is borne by the most disadvantaged. Phew. /s

To be fair most economies are set up like that.

Only I guess they haven't yet gone the extra mile and really fucked things up by way of their own equivalent of Brexit.

 

[Essexyellows]

Brexit cost 6% of UK economy, Bank of England company data suggests

Analysis showed how much the UK could have grown if it had not exited the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk

I recall a couple of the key arguments for Brexit were that we could take control of our borders and also fund the NHS more. And so even though it's disappointing to see our economy has taken a real hit, we can at least take comfort from the fact that we no longer have concerns about immigration and that the NHS is in the best state it's ever been.

And we got some blue passports.

From the article.................

"But some critics say the study does not fully account for the outperformance of the US investment and tech industries or the European energy shock four years ago."

And the tiny matter of Covid.

Statistics can be made to answer any question.........................