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International Politics The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

Marston Road Yellow said:
I’m poorer.
I knew I would be.

It’s got nothing to do with GDP and everything to do with how comfortable folks are and I’ll wager most people feel poorer because of Brexit, but I’m happy for you to show me evidence that my perception is wrong.
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Go and ask someone in Germany or France if they feel poorer, the answer will be yes.
 
HayfieldYellow said:
Obviously I need lessons in avoiding bitterness and hatred from people who write things like "Calm down dear. You're still so angry after all these years. It's embarrassing." or "I'm so pleased you're still so upset about it though."

And yep, I completely accept being lectured on my acceptance of different opinions from someone who automatically leapt from "Lib Dem voter" to "smug, incorrect and superior".
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I gave you back the energy you came on with.

You have no desire to try and change opinion on Brexit of Brexit voters on here, you came here to try and belittle people who voted for it.

This isn't even the right thread for it. If you want to complain about Brexit there's an entire thread for it.

All @Peterdev said to trigger this was innocuous. The fact it's unlikely the benefits of Brexit could ever be unlocked when it was implemented by politicians who mostly didn't believe in the project is just common sense.

If you want to have a sensible discussion, coming on with a superior, condescending and haughty attitude isn't going to do you any favours is it?

More and more I think @Basham Wonderland is correct that the idea of going into these threads with an open mind is a waste of time.
 
Londox said:
I gave you back the energy you came on with.

You have no desire to try and change opinion on Brexit of Brexit voters on here, you came here to try and belittle people who voted for it.

This isn't even the right thread for it. If you want to complain about Brexit there's an entire thread for it.

All @Peterdev said to trigger this was innocuous. The fact it's unlikely the benefits of Brexit could ever be unlocked when it was implemented by politicians who mostly didn't believe in the project is just common sense.

If you want to have a sensible discussion, coming on with a superior, condescending and haughty attitude isn't going to do you any favours is it?

More and more I think @Basham Wonderland is correct that the idea of going into these threads with an open mind is a waste of time.
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Saying that you have an open mind is like suggesting I’m an Adonis, and I’m fat old and ugly.
 
Carpy said:
But what is your argument? That it's made us poorer?

I hate the obsession with GDP growth, governments always use the most meaningless metric anyway (not per capita).
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If you want an honest answer, the main reasons for my distaste for Brexit isn't and wasn't really anything to do with growth or economics (though it's fairly obvious that leaving the EU has harmed the economy).

Many of my reasons are emotional and intangible (just like the arguments of Brexiters). I'm instinctively an internationalist - I want countries to co-operate, not compete. And more broadly, in a world with Putin, Trump and Xi Jinping, Europe is the last bastion of liberal democracy and the Brexit vote delivered a massive Vs up to that. I can't square the notion that voting to diminish the influence of the European Union (something Putin and Trump both wanted) with the professed "patriotism" of its supporters.

And it's also in the proof of the pudding. Brexit hasn't delivered on any of its stated aims: immigration has gone up, trade has not increased, goods have not got cheaper, the NHS has not benefited. We are a lesser country because of it.
 
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SteMerritt said:
Bitterness goes both ways. For "snootyness" read "inverted snobbery". You are right to call it out, but wrong to use it yourself in many posts.
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I admit my faults, I can be abrasive on here, and Brexit is my weakness when it comes to clashing with others.

I just find it fabulously irritating that people who look down their noses at people, and use language like "Torygraph, Gammon, Gbeebies", think it's the other side who are uniquely angry and immature. There are posters on the left on here who employ the exact same tactics as the kind of person they claim to hate, and then feign offence when the same attitude is thrown back at them.

Posters on the right on here are obviously not perfect either and we fall into the same traps and diatribes, but I don't think I've ever seen Bash, PeterDev, Carpy, Essex imply that the other side are just unintelligent.

It's a weakness of mine but it's difficult when people who choose to live in places like Hayfield, Blewbury or Lode look down on people who are upset by mass immigration, when they live in villages which are overwhelmingly white British.

I'm not a perfect poster (obviously, far from it) but some posters are blind to their own faults.
 
HayfieldYellow said:
I completely accept being lectured on my acceptance of different opinions from someone who automatically leapt from "Lib Dem voter" to "smug, incorrect and superior".
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Wrong again - I made the leap because you were lashing out with the: "Gullible mugs", "Conspiracy theorists", "Little Englander", "Victim complex" patter.

Not all Lib Dem voters are that hysterical. You were just ticking all the stereotype boxes.
 
Sharp Edges said:
Looks like the left hand gang have sent for reinforcements
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Always with the conspiracy theories. I happened to look in for the first time in months and decided to join in. I wasn't "sent for".

It's amusing to be accused of being in a "gang" by righties religiously upvoting each other.
 
HayfieldYellow said:
Always with the conspiracy theories. I happened to look in for the first time in months and decided to join in. I wasn't "sent for".

It's amusing to be accused of being in a "gang" by righties religiously upvoting each other.
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Maybe you should follow the path of some of your fellow left-wing posters and simply put posters who disagree with your worldview on ignore, you could have one big lovely safe space!
 
Londox said:
I admit my faults, I can be abrasive on here, and Brexit is my weakness when it comes to clashing with others.
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Likewise. But if you're going to act like a bully (all that "crying" stuff) don't expect to get respectful responses.

Londox said:
It's a weakness of mine but it's difficult when people who choose to live in places like Hayfield, Blewbury or Lode look down on people who are upset by mass immigration, when they live in villages which are overwhelmingly white British.
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I'm flattered that you bothered to look up where I live. There's an irony in what you say though - you're right that this corner of Derbyshire is overwhelmingly white. It's also full of Reformers harping on about "mass immigration" when it has absolutely zero impact on them - almost as if they've been told what to think rather than experiencing it for themselves.

Londox said:
some posters are blind to their own faults.
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Guilty as charged, I suppose. I actually try hard to address people's arguments rather than just attacking them for their beliefs (which is not how it felt when you piled in). Sure, the odd insult creeps in, but both sides are guilty of that. For the record I was calling Farage and co "Little Englanders", but if the cap fits...
 
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HayfieldYellow said:
Likewise. But if you're going to act like a bully (all that "crying" stuff) don't expect to get respectful responses.



I'm flattered that you bothered to look up where I live. There's an irony in what you say though - you're right that this corner of Derbyshire is overwhelmingly white. It's also full of Reformers harping on about "mass immigration" when it has absolutely zero impact on them - almost as if they've been told what to think rather than experiencing it for themselves.



Guilty as charged, I suppose. I actually try hard to address people's arguments rather than just attacking them for their beliefs (which is not how it felt when you piled in). Sure, the odd insult creeps in, but both sides are guilty of that. For the record I was calling Farage and co "Little Englanders", but if the cap fits...
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Well, why not start again then. I'm not trying to bully you, I just gave you back the energy you gave me.

If you want to have a serious discussion on here, you absolutely can find it. But using phrases like "deluded, mugs, little-englanders" to name just a few is obviously not going to get you anywhere.

Your second paragraph is quite interesting, you say Reform voters wouldn't know the impact of mass immigration because it has "absolutely no impact on them", would imply that it also has absolutely no impact on you. Which is precisely my point.
 
HayfieldYellow said:
So is voting Lib Dem "left wing" now?
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Yes.

If you took a political compass test, you would absolutely come out left-wing. Feel free to prove me wrong.

I'm not even particularly right-wing, but culture has moved so far left that I appear to be.
Concepts such as believing in strong borders, the nuclear family, not being embarrassed by British history, and being against DEI, and being against mass migration, to me are just common sense but these days often see you branded as right-wing, or even "far right".

I find it genuinely amusing, the Liberal Democrats, who once turned up to European Parliament in "b*****s to brexit" t-shirts, behaving like stroppy teenagers, position themselves as the adults in the room.

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I predict Reform will absolutely wipe the floor with the Liberal Democrats in the next general election, the general public have found the Liberal Democrats to be largely irrelevant since Clegg's sell out and their behaviour being neither liberal, nor democratic since the referendum.
 
Londox said:
culture has moved so far left
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In what universe has that happened?

Londox said:
I find it genuinely amusing, the Liberal Democrats, who once turned up to European Parliament in "b*****s to brexit" t-shirts, behaving like stroppy teenagers, position themselves as the adults in the room.
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And I find it genuinely amusing that you think Farage's frequent tantrums in the European Parliament make him "the adult in the room".

"their behaviour being neither liberal, nor democratic since the referendum."

What have the Lib Dems done that is illiberal or undemocratic?
 
Basham Wonderland said:
You'll notice I'm not talking about Brexit. Just having an argument because slow day at work.

We could also have an argument if you'd like? I'm free until about 6pm. You've got to start it though.
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Very cheesy.

Good to see you admit you add absolutely nothing of any substance to these threads though - first step on the road to recovery an all that 👏👏👏
 
Londox said:
This isn't even the right thread for it. If you want to complain about Brexit there's an entire thread for it.
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So according to you we can't complain about Brexit on the 'The Brexit Thread' thread. Okay. 🥴
 
HayfieldYellow said:
In what universe has that happened?



And I find it genuinely amusing that you think Farage's frequent tantrums in the European Parliament make him "the adult in the room".
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Where have I made the claim Farage is the adult in the room? He's a disruptor.
HayfieldYellow said:
"their behaviour being neither liberal, nor democratic since the referendum."

What have the Lib Dems done that is illiberal or undemocratic?
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Immediately not accepting the result of a referendum isn't exactly the position of democracy-lovers is it? They threw a tantrum on the world stage about a democratic result, the irony wasn't lost on the majority.

Not only will Reform wipe the floor with the Lib Dems at the next GE, the Green Party will too. The best they can hope for is being the 5th largest party at the next GE, but time will tell.
 
QR said:
So according to you we can't complain about Brexit on the 'The Brexit Thread' thread. Okay. 🥴
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I made a mistake, but the fact is there is over 200 pages to read through before making claims that nobody wants to defend the reasons for voting for Brexit.
 
Londox said:
I made a mistake, but the fact is there is over 200 pages to read through before making claims that nobody wants to defend the reasons for voting for Brexit.
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Everybody does. Even those with good intentions.
 
HayfieldYellow said:
Nope, nothing undemocratic going on at all. The vote was to leave the EU. We're still not in the EU, and Keir Starmer has made no attempt to rejoin - though, unlike Johnson, Farage and co., he is attempting to have a grown-up relationship with our nearest neighbours instead of striking ridiculous Little Englander poses. Labour's manifesto explicitely said:

"With Labour, Britain will stay outside of the EU. But to seize the opportunities ahead, we must make Brexit work. We will reset the relationship and seek to deepen ties with our European friends, neighbours and allies."

You can pretend that that equates to "undemocratically rejoining the EU" if it soothes your victim complex, but it's not true.

Besides, more people now wish to rejoin than stay out, so your Brexitty stance is now a minority position. The referendum was ten years ago, FFS. Lots of young people who are now adults didn't get a chance to vote. How long does your "will of the people" last, exactly?

Your foolish vote shot Britain in the foot and now you're even objecting when someone attempts to bandage the injury.
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Macron grown up? 🤣🤣🤣
 
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