National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[The Voice Of Reason]

I believe trade with EU and most countries is good - for me I have issues with Israel and Russia for obvious reasons. We should drop the paperwork barriers and the vat barriers so its smooth again.
I own a retailer and dont trade abroad anymore - I use people who do that for me - it costs more but it is simplier- if they dropped the vat charges we may consider going direct again thus making more margin (pay more tax) or go cheaper ( saving customers £££s).
However the EU has hit us with punitive measures which has harmed us and the eu

One of the ranges we sell in one business is plants - this is a good example. So pre brexit the UK imported large quantities from Holland, Italy and Spain amoungst others. Post Brexit this has dropped massively due to paperwork and live plants sitting in lorries at ports waiting clearance - the result is the UK plant industry now is thriving so much that most are at capacity and/or sell out each year - One of our nursery pre brexit grew 5 million plants now its 12 million. The result of this agreement is cheap imports flooding the UK harming our own industry again! But helping EU countries hence I think its a bad rushed deal giving away too much just like the other deals.

Just out of interest off the phone from these guys
so pre brexit 6 mill plants
post brexit 12 mill
projected in 2027 due to eu imports 5 to 6 mill
So UK loses out due to cheap crap imports

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Tory politician seems to disagree with you.

Whos big on defence!!!
The defence industry is multi national

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

So you fell for the lies. Fair enough.


This really annoys me. No the EU hasn't 'hit is with punitive measures'. We chose to leave the EU and the trading efficiencies that offers. It was our government's choice to walk away from these efficiencies. You can't stop paying your subscription to a health club and still be allowed to use the sauna. The EU is the same.

No lies we signed up to a trading bloc originally. politians changed it to political as well without a vote not very democratic!
I agree the tories handled it badly, but so did the EU. The Dutch plant/flower industry has dropped drastically as has belguim, spain and italy as we are their biggest export market - now they get it back to the harm of our nurseries that have filled the gap - just one example

This matter is not one sided of it was right it was wrong and I understand that.

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Do you understand that there is a huge net gain from the deal that we've done with India or do you only take notice of scaremongering about millions of Indians stealing our jobs?

Even India was surprised we agree the deal. The whisky industry doesnt benefit fully for 10 years!!!

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

So you would you advocate no trade deal with the EU?

No I would and Id go further with a vat agreement but not a tax union.
However the deal is very much in the EU favour - like a 12 yr fishing agreement when the industry thought 2 or 3 years.
Does Tesco, apple or any business sign up to 12 year agreements - NO! - Because the world changes

 

[Scotchegg]

Even India was surprised we agree the deal. The whisky industry doesnt benefit fully for 10 years!!!

Expected increased exports of over £1bn of whisky over the next 5 years and the creation of over 1000 jobs in the industry?

What a s**t deal that was!!!

 

[Scotchegg]

Does Tesco, apple or any business sign up to 12 year agreements - NO! - Because the world changes

What is likely to change in our fishing industry in the next decade that would fundamentally impact on this deal?

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Expected increased exports of over £1bn of whisky over the next 5 years and the creation of over 1000 jobs in the industry?

What a s**t deal that was!!!

No the benefit is 10 years when tax moves to 40% its still 150% now

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

What is likely to change in our fishing industry in the next decade that would fundamentally impact on this deal?

My whole point is they were sold down the river (pun) why a 12 year deal and not 2 or 3 or 4?

 

[Mojofilter]

Not according to the Peterhead fish industry the largest in the uk

Yes, that's what I'm saying. That there is a strange discrepancy here. Unsure if salmon gets a more favourable end of the bargain? Or is it just two different takes on the same issue by those within the same industry.

 

[Scotchegg]

My whole point is they were sold down the river (pun) why a 12 year deal and not 2 or 3 or 4?

You haven't got a point. You're just stamping your feet demanding a shorter deal despite not being able to identify a single benefit from doing so.

And India has reduced the tariffs of whisky by half. It will reduce further after 10 years. This gives an immediate benefit of around £1bn over the next 5 years, and even more once tariffs reduce even further. I'm not sure how you can present this as anything over than a big economical boost to the Whisky industry and the country as a whole.

 

[Marked Ox]

No

So what is the basis for the claim then Bazzer?

 

[QR]

My whole point is they were sold down the river (pun) why a 12 year deal and not 2 or 3 or 4?

Here's one reason. The biggest outlay for fishermen is the purchase of their boat. Before any business considers such an expense it will want to assure itself and the lender, as best as it can, that it's a going concern and therefore will be able to pay off the loan. For that it needs certainty and for as long as possible. That's what a 12 year deal gives.

 

[OUFCGav]

We dont eat it cos the supermarkets dont stock it - Morrisons does and does very well with it.
Fish is an important part of peoples diet and is undervalued by the supermarkets
If they promoted UK fish more and explained it we would buy it.
Hake is a great meaty style fish, very versatile but we send most of ours to Spain, we then import lots!! And class it as a premium product so the margins are higher in the supermarkets which puts people off.
The supermarkets think everyone wants Salmon and thats it.

Supermarkets don't make decisions like that. Supermarkets stock what there is demand for. They know exactly what sells, when, for how much. Admittedly, as Brexit shows, herd mentality isn't always right. The stock at supermarkets has probably never been wider.
The issues with fish are generational and educational. Supermarkets can only partly influence that.

 

[Marked Ox]

Here's one reason. The biggest outlay for fishermen is the purchase of their boat. Before any business considers such an expense it will want to assure itself and the lender, as best as it can, that it's a going concern and therefore will be able to pay off the loan. For that it needs certainty and for as long as possible. That's what a 12 year deal gives.

Also, the reduction in red tape and vets check under the SPS deal will reduce cost and stock won't sit there rotting as it has on occasion previously.

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

No

Supermarkets don't make decisions like that. Supermarkets stock what there is demand for. They know exactly what sells, when, for how much. Admittedly, as Brexit shows, herd mentality isn't always right. The stock at supermarkets has probably never been wider.
The issues with fish are generational and educational. Supermarkets can only partly influence that.

No as a former buyer for a supermarket - the supermarkets dictate the market.

They view some product as premium even tho it is not like hake so make a higher margin.

Its also easier for them to sell more salmon as they will use 1 supplier so putting more volume thru them thus bringing down prices , its not always about range

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Here's one reason. The biggest outlay for fishermen is the purchase of their boat. Before any business considers such an expense it will want to assure itself and the lender, as best as it can, that it's a going concern and therefore will be able to pay off the loan. For that it needs certainty and for as long as possible. That's what a 12 year deal gives.

But it gives it to EU not the UK we are giving up the rights to get back our own fishing grounds - so yes you are right but it doesnt help the UK fishers

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

You haven't got a point. You're just stamping your feet demanding a shorter deal despite not being able to identify a single benefit from doing so.

And India has reduced the tariffs of whisky by 50%. It will reduce further after 10 years. This gives an immediate benefit of around £1bn over the next 5 years, and even more once tariffs reduce even further. I'm not sure how you can present this as anything over than a big economical boost to the Whisky industry and the country as a whole.

so still 100%

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Lets all just be honest Starmer is panicing cos of the rise of Reform - SIMPLES!

 

[Marked Ox]

Lets all just be honest Starmer is panicing cos of the rise of Reform - SIMPLES!

Eh?

If he was panicking because of Reform then he wouldn't be doing deals with the EU. They didn't do this deal in a weekend either.

And using "SIMPLES", really?

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Eh?

If he was panicking because of Reform then he wouldn't be doing deals with the EU. They didn't do this deal in a weekend either.

And using "SIMPLES", really?

Reform has been on the rise for more than a weekend.
Why no deal to combat reform one of the allegations re starmer is lack of action, he's trying to out do Trump with deals to get headlines and take reform out . You can only have 1 headline

 

[The Mighty Aldo]

I voted out mainly cos of the move to a political and defence union rather than the single market it was set up as.
The EU is a vision of failed or deposed politians so they can carry on the gravy train and media spotlight without the posibility of being voted out. I dont vote for the head of the EU or any positions they are picked - this isnt democratic!

Nor was Truss and Sunak becoming PM but we got them.
I actually think the Common Market was a good idea and still is a good idea, but there should be elections to run those top jobs, and they should be MEP’s

 

[bazzer9461]

So what is the basis for the claim then Bazzer?

The way they started their tenure as the government. WFA screaming like banshees because Theresa May was thinking about alterations to the WFA but they soon did an about face on this which looks like they may change that back to what it was. Governments you can’t trust any of them

 

[Marked Ox]

Reform has been on the rise for more than a weekend.
Why no deal to combat reform one of the allegations re starmer is lack of action, he's trying to out do Trump with deals to get headlines and take reform out . You can only have 1 headline

That is one take, I suppose. Or another is they are taking action as the Country's Govt.

Labour have been talking about trade and deals from before the last election.

 

[Marked Ox]

The way they started their tenure as the government. WFA screaming like banshees because Theresa May was thinking about alterations to the WFA but they soon did an about face on this which looks like they may change that back to what it was. Governments you can’t trust any of them

What is 'WFA'?

 

[bazzer9461]

What is 'WFA'?

Winter Fuel Allowance

 

[Marked Ox]

The way they started their tenure as the government. WFA screaming like banshees because Theresa May was thinking about alterations to the WFA but they soon did an about face on this which looks like they may change that back to what it was. Governments you can’t trust any of them

Opposition do that, as the Tories are now (even though they originally agreed the fishing deal) and Reform/Lib Dems as well.

I'll wait on action (or lack of) from a Govt before judging and they've been a bit hit or miss so far. This deal though for me is a good thing so far with what has been reported.

I still don't get how you make the leap to this Govt rejoining the EU and adopting the Euro.

 

[bazzer9461]

Opposition do that, as the Tories are now (even though they originally agreed the fishing deal) and Reform/Lib Dems as well.

I'll wait on action (or lack of) from a Govt before judging and they've been a bit hit or miss so far. This deal though for me is a good thing so far with what has been reported.

I still don't get how you make the leap to this Govt rejoining the EU and adopting the Euro.

It’s the back door start with the small and eventually the red tape will drop freedom of movement will get back in and the single market a case of well were there all but in make may as well rejoin.
But I heard this morning the up to 30 year olds having freedom of movement for three years is the fact they can bring their families with them.

 

[Scotchegg]

We already have youth mobility schemes with Australia, Canada and New Zealand (and a few others). No one is suggesting that these have led to mass migration or allows them to all rock up with their families.

This is yet another case of the right leaning media and desperate opposition parties stoking up some sort of national crisis with words like Betrayal and Surrender, and people not bothering to look at the details.

 

[Marked Ox]

It’s the back door start with the small and eventually the red tape will drop freedom of movement will get back in and the single market a case of well were there all but in make may as well rejoin.
But I heard this morning the up to 30 year olds having freedom of movement for three years is the fact they can bring their families with them.

As said by @Scotchegg, this isn't a unique deal to the EU. Makes sense to me, I also hope we go back into the Erasmus Scheme.

Can't remember who said earlier but we'll end up with something akin to the Swiss type deal. Do you really think a Govt could sign us up to the Single Market with all it encompasses through the back door? That just isn't happening.