National News The Brexit Thread 🇬🇧🇪🇺

[bazzer9461]

Salmon Scotland welcomes UK-EU trade deal

Salmon Scotland, which represents the UK’s biggest food export, said today’s UK–EU trade deal would reduce costly delays and red tape that have cost salmon export companies an estimated £3 million a y…

thefishsite.com

And yet salmon fisheries seem keen. Odd discrepancy

Not according to the Peterhead fish industry the largest in the uk

 

[bazzer9461]

Is that the single criteria on which you are judging whether or not this is good for the UK economy as a whole?

And now we have to bow to the Europe Rules as a result. Starmer hasn’t any balls

 

[Scotchegg]

I voted to remain but recognised that we should leave as a democratic process.

However there's no denying that the Brexit we ended up with was a shadow of what was promised and Boris and co. committed a far bigger betrayal of the 17.4m Brexit voters than anyone else could ever manage.

We now have no choice but to free up trade opportunities with Europe, and the fishing deal is a massive Red Herring (pun intended).

If we had 100% access to our fishing sites, we'd still be no better off without freeing up access to the markets to sell this fish. Why? Because the UK doesn't eat the vast majority of the fish we catch whilst wanting to eat fish caught outside of our waters.

So we have no choice but to look at deals that improve what we export and what we import. Without this our fishing industries can't survive. And freeing up trade deals goes well beyond fish. We are a significantly poorer nation because of the restrictions that Brexit forced on all import/exports. And as our biggest trading partner, its essential that we do a deal with Europe.

 

[The Mighty Aldo]

And now we have to bow to the Europe Rules as a result. Starmer hasn’t any balls

Bazzer
Not sure it’s about bowing to Europes rules, it’s about finding a way to do business with Europe which was our biggest trading partner but that went with Brexit.
The most accurate analogy I can find is that we have a Swiss Type deal. We control our own borders and are able to trade independently with other countries. But we have to accept that if we are going to thrive as a country again deals like this, the deal with India and the US we are not going to get everything our own way.

 

[QR]

Not according to the Peterhead fish industry the largest in the uk

What's the point banning EU boats (as opposed to restricting then) if you then can't sell all the extra fish you could potentially catch?

Fishing exports have dropped 29% (by volume ) since 2019. This will boost exports with the rules on EU access being those Johnson negotiated. So the basic facts are it's better than Johnson's deal.

Other industries also like it.

 

[OUFCGav]

I voted to remain but recognised that we should leave as a democratic process.

However there's no denying that the Brexit we ended up with was a shadow of what was promised and Boris and co. committed a far bigger betrayal of the 17.4m Brexit voters than anyone else could ever manage.

We now have no choice but to free up trade opportunities with Europe, and the fishing deal is a massive Red Herring (pun intended).

If we had 100% access to our fishing sites, we'd still be no better off without freeing up access to the markets to sell this fish. Why? Because the UK doesn't eat the vast majority of the fish we catch whilst wanting to eat fish caught outside of our waters.

So we have no choice but to look at deals that improve what we export and what we import. Without this our fishing industries can't survive. And freeing up trade deals goes well beyond fish. We are a significantly poorer nation because of the restrictions that Brexit forced on all import/exports. And as our biggest trading partner, its essential that we do a deal with Europe.

"However there's no denying that the Brexit we ended up with was a shadow of what was promised" - is that not because that brexit never actually existed? The idea that you can have everything without compromise or cost.
Was reading some interviews with people in Thurrock about Brexit, there were complaints that things hadn't changed for them - well maybe the things you expected to be changed were nothing to do with the EU in the first place...

 

[The Mighty Aldo]

I voted to remain but recognised that we should leave as a democratic process.

However there's no denying that the Brexit we ended up with was a shadow of what was promised and Boris and co. committed a far bigger betrayal of the 17.4m Brexit voters than anyone else could ever manage.

We now have no choice but to free up trade opportunities with Europe, and the fishing deal is a massive Red Herring (pun intended).

If we had 100% access to our fishing sites, we'd still be no better off without freeing up access to the markets to sell this fish. Why? Because the UK doesn't eat the vast majority of the fish we catch whilst wanting to eat fish caught outside of our waters.

So we have no choice but to look at deals that improve what we export and what we import. Without this our fishing industries can't survive. And freeing up trade deals goes well beyond fish. We are a significantly poorer nation because of the restrictions that Brexit forced on all import/exports. And as our biggest trading partner, it’s essential that we do a deal with Europe.

I think 0.4% of our trade is fishing as you say massive red herring. But of course no consolation to fishermen, but look what happened to our coal or steel industries they have now gone and the car industry is following suit
As a country we have become a service industry perhaps that need looking at, but what more people need to be concerned about is AI that will put even more people out of work a real Richard Arkwright of our times

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

Bazzer
Not sure it’s about bowing to Europes rules, it’s about finding a way to do business with Europe which was our biggest trading partner but that went with Brexit.
The most accurate analogy I can find is that we have a Swiss Type deal. We control our own borders and are able to trade independently with other countries. But we have to accept that if we are going to thrive as a country again deals like this, the deal with India and the US we are not going to get everything our own way.

Precisely! Deals are about give and take (unless you're Trump and you're looking to stiff Ukraine with the threat of neverending Russian aggression of course).

The Swiss analogy is a good one, but we have more favorable terms and access to EU markets than the Swiss, so we're even better off. 12 more years of the current fishing deal, without the pointless time wasting annual wrangling against the indefinite concession from the EU on plant and animal health and security checks (which are of far greater value to the UK economy as they open up a significant market to easier access, right on our doorstep).

So while everyone is whaling (pun intended) WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE FISH!!, You're about 20 years too late to start caring about them now. Most of what they catch, we don't want. Most of what they catch they land directly into Europe. Most of the "UK" boats are actually owned by EU companies. The value of what has been agreed massively dwarfs the importance and significance of any perceived downside for one tiny industry sector.

You say the UK government is surrendering to the EU and will be a rule taker . . . and yet the loudest voices repeating this seem to be only too willing to bend over and submit to the will of Nigel Farage - a major architect of the Brexit fiasco, which has done many more times the damage to the UK economy than that being moaned about here. VERY odd priorities

It's got nothing to do with Nige having a business interest in a trawler either....has it?

 

[Peterdev]

I recognise that greater trade with the EU has to help this country.
The only concern I have is we face greater regulation and a gradual slide into the EU as an associate member, economic co-operation is to be lauded. There are plenty of things still to unpick with Brexit., but hopefully we are getting there. If the fishermen are reasonably happy then fine.
Our manufacturing industry has been in decline for years. That needs addressing otherwise an uncertain future beckons.

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

I recognise that greater trade with the EU has to help this country.
The only concern I have is we face greater regulation and a gradual slide into the EU as an associate member, economic co-operation is to be lauded. There are plenty of things still to unpick with Brexit., but hopefully we are getting there. If the fishermen are reasonably happy then fine.
Our manufacturing industry has been in decline for years. That needs addressing otherwise an uncertain future beckons.

What greater regulation are you referring to?

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

I voted to remain but recognised that we should leave as a democratic process.

However there's no denying that the Brexit we ended up with was a shadow of what was promised and Boris and co. committed a far bigger betrayal of the 17.4m Brexit voters than anyone else could ever manage.

We now have no choice but to free up trade opportunities with Europe, and the fishing deal is a massive Red Herring (pun intended).

If we had 100% access to our fishing sites, we'd still be no better off without freeing up access to the markets to sell this fish. Why? Because the UK doesn't eat the vast majority of the fish we catch whilst wanting to eat fish caught outside of our waters.

So we have no choice but to look at deals that improve what we export and what we import. Without this our fishing industries can't survive. And freeing up trade deals goes well beyond fish. We are a significantly poorer nation because of the restrictions that Brexit forced on all import/exports. And as our biggest trading partner, its essential that we do a deal with Europe.

We dont eat it cos the supermarkets dont stock it - Morrisons does and does very well with it.
Fish is an important part of peoples diet and is undervalued by the supermarkets
If they promoted UK fish more and explained it we would buy it.
Hake is a great meaty style fish, very versatile but we send most of ours to Spain, we then import lots!! And class it as a premium product so the margins are higher in the supermarkets which puts people off.
The supermarkets think everyone wants Salmon and thats it.

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

I voted out mainly cos of the move to a political and defence union rather than the single market it was set up as.
The EU is a vision of failed or deposed politians so they can carry on the gravy train and media spotlight without the posibility of being voted out. I dont vote for the head of the EU or any positions they are picked - this isnt democratic!

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

I believe trade with EU and most countries is good - for me I have issues with Israel and Russia for obvious reasons. We should drop the paperwork barriers and the vat barriers so its smooth again.
I own a retailer and dont trade abroad anymore - I use people who do that for me - it costs more but it is simplier- if they dropped the vat charges we may consider going direct again thus making more margin (pay more tax) or go cheaper ( saving customers £££s).
However the EU has hit us with punitive measures which has harmed us and the eu

One of the ranges we sell in one business is plants - this is a good example. So pre brexit the UK imported large quantities from Holland, Italy and Spain amoungst others. Post Brexit this has dropped massively due to paperwork and live plants sitting in lorries at ports waiting clearance - the result is the UK plant industry now is thriving so much that most are at capacity and/or sell out each year - One of our nursery pre brexit grew 5 million plants now its 12 million. The result of this agreement is cheap imports flooding the UK harming our own industry again! But helping EU countries hence I think its a bad rushed deal giving away too much just like the other deals.

 

[bazzer9461]

Bazzer
Not sure it’s about bowing to Europes rules, it’s about finding a way to do business with Europe which was our biggest trading partner but that went with Brexit.
The most accurate analogy I can find is that we have a Swiss Type deal. We control our own borders and are able to trade independently with other countries. But we have to accept that if we are going to thrive as a country again deals like this, the deal with India and the US we are not going to get everything our own way.

Europe might be our biggest trading partner but why do we have to follow their rules if we in the uk want to do something we now have to ask Brussels.
Doing business I agree we have to but Starmer and co said we have a great deal with the US and our tariffs have been lowered to 10% but the yanks tariff we charge is 1.25% that don’t seem right.

 

[The Mighty Aldo]

We dont eat it cos the supermarkets dont stock it - Morrisons does and does very well with it.
Fish is an important part of peoples diet and is undervalued by the supermarkets
If they promoted UK fish more and explained it we would buy it.
Hake is a great meaty style fish, very versatile but we send most of ours to Spain, we then import lots!! And class it as a premium product so the margins are higher in the supermarkets which puts people off.
The supermarkets think everyone wants Salmon and thats it.

Good point about fish in Supermarkets
In Tesco Abingdon there is about 1/3 oof an isle with fish products on it compared to almost 5 isles of meat product

 

[bazzer9461]

What's the point banning EU boats (as opposed to restricting then) if you then can't sell all the extra fish you could potentially catch?

Fishing exports have dropped 29% (by volume ) since 2019. This will boost exports with the rules on EU access being those Johnson negotiated. So the basic facts are it's better than Johnson's deal.

Other industries also like it.

Better are the fishery expert that was on GMb this morning and I’m sure she would be more qualified than you or I.

 

[Peterdev]

What greater regulation are you referring to?

My concern is getting sucked into greater regulations on who we can trade with and for example meeting regulations imposed with food. Also concerned that imports from US might involve chlorinated chicken

 

[Peterdev]

We dont eat it cos the supermarkets dont stock it - Morrisons does and does very well with it.
Fish is an important part of peoples diet and is undervalued by the supermarkets
If they promoted UK fish more and explained it we would buy it.
Hake is a great meaty style fish, very versatile but we send most of ours to Spain, we then import lots!! And class it as a premium product so the margins are higher in the supermarkets which puts people off.
The supermarkets think everyone wants Salmon and thats it.

Couldn’t agree more. Wild salmon is so different. Trout, hake and cod are great too. Farmed salmon doesn’t appeal nor tuna.

 

[Peterdev]

I voted out mainly cos of the move to a political and defence union rather than the single market it was set up as.
The EU is a vision of failed or deposed politians so they can carry on the gravy train and media spotlight without the posibility of being voted out. I dont vote for the head of the EU or any positions they are picked - this isnt democratic!

I understand that. Always thought Farage was bang on with his attack on Herbert Van Rmpouy. Then of course the accounts not being signed off for twenty years plus. The gravy train of MPs finding themselves in the Brussels retirement home instead of the a House of Lords.

 

[carefreeoufc]

International trade requires a level of regulatory alignment, particularly when it comes to things like safety standards and food quality. We impose minimum standards on other countries, and, (when in the EU) were a driving force for many of the regulatory safety standards that are now commonplace. In many instances, our current standards are already higher.

The country/politicians/business people will have a choice (which I thought is what everyone wanted with Brexit), we can meet certain standards to trade with certain countries, or we walk away and find a country with lower regulatory standards. That's our decision now. Appreciate this may not be the Brexit people want, but things have changed significantly since the vote, a war in Ukraine and Trump as President, means we need to find some allies to trade with and protect each other. 2016, a European army was used as weapon against the EU. Given the sh*t state of our armed forces (not the troops) following years of underinvestment, I'd be banging the door down!

 

[Scotchegg]

We dont eat it cos the supermarkets dont stock it - Morrisons does and does very well with it.
Fish is an important part of peoples diet and is undervalued by the supermarkets
If they promoted UK fish more and explained it we would buy it.
Hake is a great meaty style fish, very versatile but we send most of ours to Spain, we then import lots!! And class it as a premium product so the margins are higher in the supermarkets which puts people off.
The supermarkets think everyone wants Salmon and thats it.

Supermarkets stock what people buy. There was a time when many had their own fishmongers, or most highstreets had independent fishmongers. But they've been in decline for years, long before any talks about Brexit.

Vessels wouldn't sail from our shores directly to Europe with their catch if there was a market in the UK. Salmon and white fish aside, most other species are pretty niche or are limited to restaurant trade. Although interestingly, there are growing numbers of migrant communities buying fish so maybe we should open our borders more to give a boost to our fisherman!

 

[Common Villager]

Almost every negotiation involves some concession from both parties for a deal to be reached. Those who truly believed we'd be able to go to EU (and others) and get everything we wanted in a trade deal were somewhat delusional, unfortunately.

I don't have the time to follow national politics as closely as I'd like, but on the trade front it appears to me that this Labour govt has made more progress than any other govt managed post-Brexit (someone please correct me if this isn't true). It's quite refreshing having grown ups making grown up decisions that aren't always popular but which they can demonstrably claim they believe are in the best interests of the country as a whole rather than a select few.

There is still so, so much that needs to be improved (walking along the Thames at the weekend and watching actual s**t float past is testament to this), but for the first time since Brexit it feels like we are at least starting to move forward (or, if you'd prefer, in any direction) rather than simply treading water. Only time will reveal if the decisions the govt are making are the right ones, but I'm actually just quite pleased we are doing something.

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

International trade requires a level of regulatory alignment, particularly when it comes to things like safety standards and food quality. We impose minimum standards on other countries, and, (when in the EU) were a driving force for many of the regulatory safety standards that are now commonplace. In many instances, our current standards are already higher.

The country/politicians/business people will have a choice (which I thought is what everyone wanted with Brexit), we can meet certain standards to trade with certain countries, or we walk away and find a country with lower regulatory standards. That's our decision now. Appreciate this may not be the Brexit people want, but things have changed significantly since the vote, a war in Ukraine and Trump as President, means we need to find some allies to trade with and protect each other. 2016, a European army was used as weapon against the EU. Given the sh*t state of our armed forces (not the troops) following years of underinvestment, I'd be banging the door down!

Understand re if your sell a product to X or Y it has to fit their standards. My issue is NI a part of the UK. But UK plants , seed bulbs suppliers couldn't sell to NI unless it had EU certification which was expensive why NI isn't in EU , it was because they were worried re NI product crossing the border sorry that is Eires problem not the UK. NI suffered cos of this as they had to buy from Europe on worries that landed at dover and then travelled to eire nuts!!! And Wrong!!!!

 

[Sheik Djibouti]

As far as Salmon is concerned we import slightly more than we export . . . go figure!
The reason behind this is that Scottish Salmon in particular attracts a premium due to it provenance . . . and if it's responsibly/sustainably sourced, whch most now claims to be, then people can consume with a "clear conscience" (but there's a whole other debate about what those standards actually mean . . ). The premium this attracts in foreign markets makes it more valuable to export than to sell domestically, and this deal just made that even easier in the EU at least. THat's kind how trade in a global market works - you sell into the market that gives you the best prices and biggest profit margin.

We consequently import cheaper Salmon from Norway, Chile (yes!), Sweden, The Faroes, Denmark, China, Iceland and Vietnam!

 

[The Voice Of Reason]

Almost every negotiation involves some concession from both parties for a deal to be reached. Those who truly believed we'd be able to go to EU (and others) and get everything we wanted in a trade deal were somewhat delusional, unfortunately.

I don't have the time to follow national politics as closely as I'd like, but on the trade front it appears to me that this Labour govt has made more progress than any other govt managed post-Brexit (someone please correct me if this isn't true). It's quite refreshing having grown ups making grown up decisions that aren't always popular but which they can demonstrably claim they believe are in the best interests of the country as a whole rather than a select few.

There is still so, so much that needs to be improved (walking along the Thames at the weekend and watching actual s**t float past is testament to this), but for the first time since Brexit it feels like we are at least starting to move forward (or, if you'd prefer, in any direction) rather than simply treading water. Only time will reveal if the decisions the govt are making are the right ones, but I'm actually just quite pleased we are doing something.

No labour hasn't done more . I do deals multiple times a day some workout some don't, but all parties are happy. We've just capitulated.
The India deal was on table under Tories but they said no due to migration

 

[Common Villager]

No labour hasn't done more . I do deals multiple times a day some workout some don't, but all parties are happy. We've just capitulated.
The India deal was on table under Tories but they said no due to migration

So you would you advocate no trade deal with the EU?

 

[The Mighty Aldo]

Europe might be our biggest trading partner but why do we have to follow their rules if we in the uk want to do something we now have to ask Brussels.
Doing business I agree we have to but Starmer and co said we have a great deal with the US and our tariffs have been lowered to 10% but the yanks tariff we charge is 1.25% that don’t seem right.

The reason we have to go through Brussels Bazz is because you can’t go to Germany Spain France . Greece etc directly you have to go through the bloc and can’t trade directly although I suspect they would like to
India and the US know we are desperate for trade deals so they have the upper hand in any negotiations but that’s the way of it,we have to realise we as a country we are a very small player.
An example of this is the one trade deal the Conservatives did do was with Canada
We now have a worse deal with them than when we were in the EU. As I say we are now small fry in the world of business

 

[Scotchegg]

The India deal was on table under Tories but they said no due to migration

Do you understand that there is a huge net gain from the deal that we've done with India or do you only take notice of scaremongering about millions of Indians stealing our jobs?

 

[QR]

I voted out mainly cos of the move to a political and defence union rather than the single market it was set up as.

So you fell for the lies. Fair enough.

However the EU has hit us with punitive measures which has harmed us and the eu

This really annoys me. No the EU hasn't 'hit is with punitive measures'. We chose to leave the EU and the trading efficiencies that offers. It was our government's choice to walk away from these efficiencies. You can't stop paying your subscription to a health club and still be allowed to use the sauna. The EU is the same.

 

[QR]

No labour hasn't done more . I do deals multiple times a day some workout some don't, but all parties are happy. We've just capitulated.
The India deal was on table under Tories but they said no due to migration

Tory politician seems to disagree with you.