The board especially the foreign contingent and the chairman

[Scotchegg]

People express their concerns, and you seem to disagree based on imaginary scenarios or very sketchy "ITK" knowledge which often turns out to be incorrect. On the face of it, we are in trouble with a threadbare squad with some tough opening fixtures. Ben Woodburn signing as a replacement for Whyte leaves us as we were. You can only judge based on what's infront of you, which right now is very little unfortunately.

Once again, you seem unable to grasp the idea of answering a previous post in order to understand context. The questions put were that if we weren't in such a mess would Nelson and Whyte leave and would Dickie have signed an extended contract. I made the argument that Nelson had run down his contract at Plymouth to get more money with us and was always likely to do the same to get another step up the ladder. (Agree/disagree?)
Also that Gavin Whyte wasn't looking to force a move but has the opportunity to triple his wages and jump a division and they are the telling factor in his likely move. (Agree/disagree?)
And finally, contract extension will be looked at after the window closes so it's a bit premature to question why he's yet to sign a deal he hasn't been offered. (Agree/disagree?)

On to your points, we have a threadbare squad with tough opening fixtures? Correct.

Woodburn is being brought in to replace Whyte? Incorrect. Different players and we will bring in another replacement for Whyte, along with another 2 or 3 players.

My "sketchy ITK knowledge that often turns out to be incorrect" stands up for all to see. Most things I get right, somethings I don't. So what?

And finally, as for "you can only judge based on what's in front of you" is frankly ridiculous. That would be like saying that it always rains because it's raining today! When looking at our transfer activities you judge based on lots of information gained over a period of time. If we assume that Whyte is going and Woodburn is coming in, then we've brought in a right back/right midfielder who is a step up from Sam Long, a holding midfielder who is as good if not better than Kashi, a winger who offers as much as Garbutt and Browne did in that role, and a young striker/attacking player with bags of potential. We've also lost our star player in Whyte but we will judge that once the deal is done and his replacement is seen.

So there are no imaginary scenarios, just a clear view of what has happened or is likely to happen. Please feel free to pick out the inaccuracies in what I've posted seeing as I get so much wrong?

 

[Steve McAvoy]

Lots of food for thought at the moment; maybe too much. The way I make sense of things is: we all know what the model is, which we have seen with Whyte and maybe? is/will happen with Brannagan. The Management narrative will be/have to be that we are aiming for promotion, in the context of which selling out most effective players seems contradictory. I think it would be more transparent to say we are hoping for promotion (these things can happen) but fundamentally the central focus is to find a way of generating income through identifying good prospects and developing them through the U23’s, eventually developing a good core squad while selling off a player intermittently (what used to be the Crewe Alexandra model). The balance between who comes and goes has to be bang on, which is where Robinson’s ability to organise in less than optimal circumstances is key, as we have found out over the past two seasons. Those who are more knowledgable about finances may deride this ‘strategy’, i’m not sure what other options maybe developed but we have been over and over the issue of the stadium, the landlord, the cost of the Championship...
Let’s hope for a good season following our team!

 

[WuTang]

Once again, you seem unable to grasp the idea of answering a previous post in order to understand context. The questions put were that if we weren't in such a mess would Nelson and Whyte leave and would Dickie have signed an extended contract. I made the argument that Nelson had run down his contract at Plymouth to get more money with us and was always likely to do the same to get another step up the ladder. (Agree/disagree?)
Also that Gavin Whyte wasn't looking to force a move but has the opportunity to triple his wages and jump a division and they are the telling factor in his likely move. (Agree/disagree?)
And finally, contract extension will be looked at after the window closes so it's a bit premature to question why he's yet to sign a deal he hasn't been offered. (Agree/disagree?)

On to your points, we have a threadbare squad with tough opening fixtures? Correct.

Woodburn is being brought in to replace Whyte? Incorrect. Different players and we will bring in another replacement for Whyte, along with another 2 or 3 players.

My "sketchy ITK knowledge that often turns out to be incorrect" stands up for all to see. Most things I get right, somethings I don't. So what?

And finally, as for "you can only judge based on what's in front of you" is frankly ridiculous. That would be like saying that it always rains because it's raining today! When looking at our transfer activities you judge based on lots of information gained over a period of time. If we assume that Whyte is going and Woodburn is coming in, then we've brought in a right back/right midfielder who is a step up from Sam Long, a holding midfielder who is as good if not better than Kashi, a winger who offers as much as Garbutt and Browne did in that role, and a young striker/attacking player with bags of potential. We've also lost our star player in Whyte but we will judge that once the deal is done and his replacement is seen.

So there are no imaginary scenarios, just a clear view of what has happened or is likely to happen. Please feel free to pick out the inaccuracies in what I've posted seeing as I get so much wrong?

I wasn't answering or referring to a previous post of yours, just making a general point. Woodburn can play upfront granted, but has been more commonly used behind a striker so far in his career, aka Gavin Whyte. He'd be more suited there to the hold up striker role we require.

Using your "ITK" knowledge to try and put other posters minds at ease when you openly admit to it not always being correct offers very little, that's my point there.

Our signings so far have been improvements, but we need a hell of a lot more coming in. You can't judge it as being successful based on "possible signings" that may or may not happen. You can only judge the transfer window on how our squad is right now. I doubt Manchester United fans are saying they've had a great transfer window because they might sign Dybala, Maguire, Fernandes etc etc. They will only if they arrive officially.

A clear view of what is likely to happen only if you close your eyes, cross your fingers and hope for the best. Until then we can only point out we're lacking in crucial areas...

 

[Teacher]

I get what Yellow Hert is saying but it’s not like there are lots of fans on here screaming for promotion. Most aren’t even really talking about the play offs.

DE openly said he could never do anymore than sustain us at L1 level and that would be far better than the shambles the current board have displayed since day dot.

 

[Yellow hert]

But these losses are league 1 losses.

The club has four income streams.
1. Tickets sales. We are pretty much bang average for league 1 so therefore only average league 1 income
2. Shirts sponsorship. We are not being plastered all over the dailies or getting much tv coverage so it ain’t worth much.
3. Cup run prize money. In the lap of the gods.
4. Player sales. That’s what kept Eagles and tiger interested but it is a tightrope act.

Our outgoings are much more than other teams due to the rent and other costs of using the stadium so just to stay still we need an owner willing to accept that risk and rely on income streams 3 and 4 to make it tolerable. And if you want to be truly terrified read Paul B’s excellent summary in the match section to realise Tiger is up to his neck in the brown stuff.

As I’ve already written and written so less eloquently than many others so many times we are where we are because that’s what the finances make it. We are punching at our level right now and the owner would have to be willing to bear significantly more if we want to go further. I would love to be in the championship but until the EFL gets real financial rules in place it is a lethal pipe dream and no more.

 

[Teacher]

But these losses are league 1 losses.

The club has four income streams.
1. Tickets sales. We are pretty much bang average for league 1 so therefore only average league 1 income
2. Shirts sponsorship. We are not being plastered all over the dailies or getting much tv coverage so it ain’t worth much.
3. Cup run prize money. In the lap of the gods.
4. Player sales. That’s what kept Eagles and tiger interested but it is a tightrope act.

Our outgoings are much more than other teams due to the rent and other costs of using the stadium so just to stay still we need an owner willing to accept that risk and rely on income streams 3 and 4 to make it tolerable. And if you want to be truly terrified read Paul B’s excellent summary in the match section to realise Tiger is up to his neck in the brown stuff.

As I’ve already written and written so less eloquently than many others so many times we are where we are because that’s what the finances make it. We are punching at our level right now and the owner would have to be willing to bear significantly more if we want to go further. I would love to be in the championship but until the EFL gets real financial rules in place it is a lethal pipe dream and no more.

I totally get what your saying and agree with what your saying as well, but unfortunately I can’t let those truths override the emotion of how I feel towards the board. It doesn’t cost anything to communicate well, it doesn’t cost anything to put systems in place to make the club run smoothly etc.

Tiger has a hell of a lot to answer for. Including the short sightedness of selling GW for less than his value. Reading KR interview in OM, it seems like he had no say in it and the board decided over his head.

I’m yet to see the positives to our current owner.

 

[Marked Ox]

I totally get what your saying and agree with what your saying as well, but unfortunately I can’t let those truths override the emotion of how I feel towards the board. It doesn’t cost anything to communicate well, it doesn’t cost anything to put systems in place to make the club run smoothly etc.

Tiger has a hell of a lot to answer for. Including the short sightedness of selling GW for less than his value. Reading KR interview in OM, it seems like he had no say in it and the board decided over his head.

I’m yet to see the positives to our current owner.

We don't actually know what Gavin Whyte was sold for, what the clauses are (or their value) and any sell on % (if there is one) as it is undisclosed. There has been speculation but that is just what it is, speculation.

 

[DorsetYelloww]

Feels like Whyte is being sold just to sort out payments to DE quicker...

To cover the shortfall in debts overall I would guess, as presumably the other Board members have not been forthcoming with investing in the club and Tiger doesn’t have the funds on his own. I think this suggests its an even bigger problem, beyond simply selling the star player for half their valuation. I don’t know that for sure of course, it’s just my opinion based on what seems to be

We don't actually know what Gavin Whyte was sold for, what the clauses are (or their value) and any sell on % (if there is one) as it is undisclosed. There has been speculation but that is just what it is, speculation.

KR said it was over £2m with everything thrown in, so presumably less than £2m to begin with? Compare that to the bold statement of valuing him at £4m just a short while ago. But of course we couldn’t stand in his way!

The lack of any tangible business acumen within this management structure frankly beggars belief.

 

[Teacher]

We don't actually know what Gavin Whyte was sold for, what the clauses are (or their value) and any sell on % (if there is one) as it is undisclosed. There has been speculation but that is just what it is, speculation.

I hear you but did we really need to sell? Sort of suggests the value of GW shows there is a reason we did sell and it wasn’t the player massively pushing for it.

 

[Scotchegg]

I hear you but did we really need to sell? Sort of suggests the value of GW shows there is a reason we did sell and it wasn’t the player massively pushing for it.

We didn't NEED to sell, but it looks like it made good sense to sell. My understanding is that with all the add ons the fee will be around £3m for a player that cost us £100k a year ago. We could have kept him and he suffers a season long injury like Nelson did. Then we have an out of sorts player finding his way back with only a year left on his contract and could walk away for nothing at the end. Of course, the alternative is that he could have ripped this league apart and is worth £5m next summer. But when you balance everything out, selling now made good financial sense especially if that money is used to fund other players, or support stadium development or to clear the bills!

You are blinded by your emotions when it comes to Tiger and co. but you must see the long term benefit of making us more sustainable and selling assets is a big part of that.

 

[Marked Ox]

I hear you but did we really need to sell? Sort of suggests the value of GW shows there is a reason we did sell and it wasn’t the player massively pushing for it.

Considering we lose £ms each year, offered such an amount then the club has to consider it.

 

[Teacher]

We didn't NEED to sell, but it looks like it made good sense to sell. My understanding is that with all the add ons the fee will be around £3m for a player that cost us £100k a year ago. We could have kept him and he suffers a season long injury like Nelson did. Then we have an out of sorts player finding his way back with only a year left on his contract and could walk away for nothing at the end. Of course, the alternative is that he could have ripped this league apart and is worth £5m next summer. But when you balance everything out, selling now made good financial sense especially if that money is used to fund other players, or support stadium development or to clear the bills!

You are blinded by your emotions when it comes to Tiger and co. but you must see the long term benefit of making us more sustainable and selling assets is a big part of that.

Quite possibly you are right. I detest the current board and would say with good reason. They are yet to prove capable in most areas of running/owning a football club.

Get what you say RE Nelson, but that’s not particularly common place. There is a higher chance of GW performing better this season and potentially doing well at the Euros. A gamble worth taking in my eyes.....unless we needed to sell.

I struggle to see sustainability with the current owners. I struggle to get behind them with similar mistakes being made this pre season. Why they are leaving KR to fight every battle alone, I will never know.

 

[Scotchegg]

Quite possibly you are right. I detest the current board and would say with good reason. They are yet to prove capable in most areas of running/owning a football club.

Get what you say RE Nelson, but that’s not particularly common place. There is a higher chance of GW performing better this season and potentially doing well at the Euros. A gamble worth taking in my eyes.....unless we needed to sell.

I struggle to see sustainability with the current owners. I struggle to get behind them with similar mistakes being made this pre season. Why they are leaving KR to fight every battle alone, I will never know.

Go along to the AGM and ask?

 

[beyondthefourth]

I would put a bit of trust that we understand his future value playing well with Cardiff could do much better business than any price we can put on him just now.

I'd take 2 million, with a promotion clause and a 20% sell on percentage, over 4 million up front any day. I can't see us not having a few clauses in there, otherwise we'd be getting at least 3 million for him up front.

Cardiff are among the favourites to go straight back up. Couple even a decent first season with an explosive Euros and his value is already in the teens of millions.

 

[uptheus]

I would put a bit of trust that we understand his future value playing well with Cardiff could do much better business than any price we can put on him just now.

I'd take 2 million, with a promotion clause and a 20% sell on percentage, over 4 million up front any day. I can't see us not having a few clauses in there, otherwise we'd be getting at least 3 million for him up front.

Cardiff are among the favourites to go straight back up. Couple even a decent first season with an explosive Euros and his value is already in the teens of millions.

What could the promotion clause be?

 

[Scotchegg]

What could the promotion clause be?

An extra £1m (for example) if Cardiff are promoted in the next 3 years (length of contract). It's the same as was in Roofe's deal.

 

[nick68]

We didn't NEED to sell, but it looks like it made good sense to sell. My understanding is that with all the add ons the fee will be around £3m for a player that cost us £100k a year ago. We could have kept him and he suffers a season long injury like Nelson did. Then we have an out of sorts player finding his way back with only a year left on his contract and could walk away for nothing at the end. Of course, the alternative is that he could have ripped this league apart and is worth £5m next summer. But when you balance everything out, selling now made good financial sense especially if that money is used to fund other players, or support stadium development or to clear the bills!

You are blinded by your emotions when it comes to Tiger and co. but you must see the long term benefit of making us more sustainable and selling assets is a big part of that.

Or alternatively he could have suffered an injury in the first game of the season and been out for months but never fully getting back to the player we know leaving us with an asset with no value.

Harsh reality of football outside of the top 6 is you have to sell when you can or risk being left with nothing, you might not like it but you need to get used to it.

 

[Northernyellow]

Or alternatively he could have suffered an injury in the first game of the season and been out for months but never fully getting back to the player we know leaving us with an asset with no value.

Harsh reality of football outside of the top 6 is you have to sell when you can or risk being left with nothing, you might not like it but you need to get used to it.
[/QU
If Tiger had the money to back up all the chat, he'd have kept Whyte for one more season, allowed KR to bring in 3-4 good standard L1 players and we'd have been challenging for Top 6. But he doesn't. So he sold him.

 

[nick68]

I totally disagree but that's opinion for you