Target refuses to run!

[Manorlounger]

But still won’t pick up certain aspects, as certain attitudes will be fine at one club but not at another, different managers will tolerate different levels. Wilder was happy to give dave kitson what he wanted, so he was able to get away with more. But it is all about working with our team of players and our manager, and like in our last promotion season building a team that fight for each other, and buy into what the manager is building. Mapp and sercs clashed so he was shipped out, not really any different here.

The point being Dave, attitude is something that must play a part in recruitment. To say that different managers will accept different attitudes may be valid but, those attitudes are there to be seen and recognised as part of a players make up. "What does a player bring to a team" should be a question asked before recruiting. I am in agreement that this player, by refusing to undertake a running test, should be rejected but, should the club have had an idea of his attitude before approaching? I believe, yes.

 

[Deleted member 462]

But still won’t pick up certain aspects, as certain attitudes will be fine at one club but not at another, different managers will tolerate different levels. Wilder was happy to give dave kitson what he wanted, so he was able to get away with more. But it is all about working with our team of players and our manager, and like in our last promotion season building a team that fight for each other, and buy into what the manager is building. Mapp and sercs clashed so he was shipped out, not really any different here.

The point being Dave, attitude is something that must play a part in recruitment. To say that different managers will accept different attitudes may be valid but, those attitudes are there to be seen and recognised as part of a players make up. "What does a player bring to a team" should be a question asked before recruiting. I am in agreement that this player, by refusing to undertake a running test, should be rejected but, should the club have had an idea of his attitude before approaching? I believe, yes.

But that’s what I’m saying, they may well have known full well what his past attitude is. But if he’s never played under Karl before then how they will get on is impossible to scout or know until they meet. He might never have been asked to prove himself before, he might have always been at the same club, or been given leeway as he’s the star player. If so there’s nothing for the scouts to pick up. Certain situations and people, will make others react differently. Like I said in this case it’s worked out for us that it’s shown before we signed rather than further down the line once we’ve signed. How many games did it take before junior brown stomped down the rubble after being subbed never to be seen again ? 10?

 

[Craig]

Maybe the club should pass the players details on to @bicesterox might be one for the future...

 

[Gary Baldi]

KR: can you run?
Player: yeah gaffer
KR: okay you’re signed
Player: I can't kick a ball though
KR: oh don’t worry about that
Player: or have a football brain
KR: like I said, don’t worry as long as you can run!

Yeah, I guess that sets the expectations.

Or a more simpler message of we won't be messed around by a prima donna. Even more shockingly, maybe they did it deliberately to see how the player would react to such a request. They wouldn't be the first or last team to do that sort of thing.

 

[Manorlounger]

But that’s what I’m saying, they may well have known full well what his past attitude is. But if he’s never played under Karl before then how they will get on is impossible to scout or know until they meet. He might never have been asked to prove himself before, he might have always been at the same club, or been given leeway as he’s the star player. If so there’s nothing for the scouts to pick up. Certain situations and people, will make others react differently. Like I said in this case it’s worked out for us that it’s shown before we signed rather than further down the line once we’ve signed. How many games did it take before junior brown stomped down the rubble after being subbed never to be seen again ? 10?

So, if I understand what you are saying Dave, is that the recruitment team may well have known about any attitude but, until KR asks that potential signing to run (in this example), we don't know how he will perform for OUFC? Very odd.

In the past the club has signed players, ad hoc, on the basis that they have displayed talent, regardless of whether they still can, will, or have any desire to. If, and I think this is what you are getting at, if it is that the club is now seeking individuals that are fully motivated to give 100% for OUFC, then yes. I am in favour. Regardless of that, any recruitment/scouting organisation must, must, have a good idea of who they are recommending to the manager/coach.

 

[uptheus]

Or a more simpler message of we won't be messed around by a prima donna. Even more shockingly, maybe they did it deliberately to see how the player would react to such a request. They wouldn't be the first or last team to do that sort of thing.

And my god I hope our team doesn’t play the same style of football as Sam Allardyce’s teams!

 

[BigCrompy]

So, if I understand what you are saying Dave, is that the recruitment team may well have known about any attitude but, until KR asks that potential signing to run (in this example), we don't know how he will perform for OUFC? Very odd.

Not odd at all.

In fact, spot on.

This notion of “attitude” is both subjective and fluctuant, unfortunately not a statistic on FIFA.

It’s just not possible to know if a player is a good fit with KR until KR has met him.

Some players might have had a horror past, yet click instantaneously with KR and want to run through walls for him. Should we filter those out on someone else’s say-so?

Plus, if I was the father of a player on the way out of a club on the grounds of this so-called “attitude”, I’d make damn sure that all the sources giving information to Oxford’s scouts said only the best things about my son.

As I say, “attitude” is entirely subjective.

 

[Anthomic]

... but I can see Akinfenwa’s point though ...
View attachment 548

Andy Wing never found it to be a problem in fact the "Beast" would normally end up on his backside.

 

[Deleted member 462]

But that’s what I’m saying, they may well have known full well what his past attitude is. But if he’s never played under Karl before then how they will get on is impossible to scout or know until they meet. He might never have been asked to prove himself before, he might have always been at the same club, or been given leeway as he’s the star player. If so there’s nothing for the scouts to pick up. Certain situations and people, will make others react differently. Like I said in this case it’s worked out for us that it’s shown before we signed rather than further down the line once we’ve signed. How many games did it take before junior brown stomped down the rubble after being subbed never to be seen again ? 10?

So, if I understand what you are saying Dave, is that the recruitment team may well have known about any attitude but, until KR asks that potential signing to run (in this example), we don't know how he will perform for OUFC? Very odd.

In the past the club has signed players, ad hoc, on the basis that they have displayed talent, regardless of whether they still can, will, or have any desire to. If, and I think this is what you are getting at, if it is that the club is now seeking individuals that are fully motivated to give 100% for OUFC, then yes. I am in favour. Regardless of that, any recruitment/scouting organisation must, must, have a good idea of who they are recommending to the manager/coach.

What I’m saying is, you do tend to air on the negative side of a story. This says nothing about “the quality” of targets as u said in ur initial post. The target could well have been of the very highest quality, just unable to work with kr due to a clash is attitude, thus making him not a good fit for our side due to the fact kr is manager. I do believe mapp also turned a player down at contract stage as he didn’t think he would fit with that group of players. What is ur worry about the quality being scouted? Obviously they are all going to have the right personality and attitude to fit in, so does that mean they all won’t be of a quality on the pitch? Or that the scouts don’t know why they are doing?

Don’t panic this is a good thing.

 

[yellowbow]

I haven’t read all the previous posts so apologies if I’m going over old ground but for my tuppence worth this is all being blown out of proportion due to, as yet, a lack of incoming signings. If there were players coming in through the ‘in’ door this would be no more than an incidental sub plot. Unfortunately we as supporters crave any news that things are happening with recruitment and the local media are hungry for stories. As things are quiet at the moment all we’re getting is news of bloody Sunderland, and potential signings falling through because of players attitude. *yawn* is a word that springs to mind..

 

[uptheus]

What I’m saying is, you do tend to air on the negative side of a story. This says nothing about “the quality” of targets as u said in ur initial post. The target could well have been of the very highest quality, just unable to work with kr due to a clash is attitude, thus making him not a good fit for our side due to the fact kr is manager. I do believe mapp also turned a player down at contract stage as he didn’t think he would fit with that group of players. What is ur worry about the quality being scouted? Obviously they are all going to have the right personality and attitude to fit in, so does that mean they all won’t be of a quality on the pitch? Or that the scouts don’t know why they are doing?

Don’t panic this is a good thing.

All it tells us is, we’ve only signed one player so far!

 

[Deleted member 462]

What I’m saying is, you do tend to air on the negative side of a story. This says nothing about “the quality” of targets as u said in ur initial post. The target could well have been of the very highest quality, just unable to work with kr due to a clash is attitude, thus making him not a good fit for our side due to the fact kr is manager. I do believe mapp also turned a player down at contract stage as he didn’t think he would fit with that group of players. What is ur worry about the quality being scouted? Obviously they are all going to have the right personality and attitude to fit in, so does that mean they all won’t be of a quality on the pitch? Or that the scouts don’t know why they are doing?

Don’t panic this is a good thing.

All it tells us is, we’ve only signed one player so far!

Yup I’ll give u that Sean.

But don’t panic, I’m sure the scouting network is lining up a whole load of poor quality unsuitable players as we speak, and Mick brown is preparing the fax to tell the league we cant field a team for the first game.

 

[Yellow River]

Seems to me that it’s entirely reasonable to ask a players to do a running test as part of a medical, and totally unreasonable to refuse to do one. Certain Club expectations and boundaries have to be laid out early. You can’t have the tail wagging the dog.

Can you imagine the fall out on here and around the club if the player signed and then broke down in training, and it transpired that he refused to do a running test as part of a medical.

 

[m]

And why would you say that?

How can attitude be scouted?

Even if it could, attitdue is not necessarily fixed. Players may get jaded, or decide they need to pull their socks up. In many respects it's like fitness I'd say. There is the basic personality clash to consider too.

Re the discussion of personal terms: I'd suggest this would form an early part of discussions as the job would not have been advertised with these in the normal way.

And finally, there has never been a manager anywhere ever who has not signed a dissapointing player. (exageration but I hope the point stands!)

 

[m]

should the club have had an idea of his attitude before approaching? I believe, yes.

How?

What if his attitude has changed?

 

[MJB]

Lads, lads, think you’re all overthinking this a bit. Get out and enjoy yourselves while the sun is shining - we can all return to our misanthropic selves come August.

 

[uptheus]

Yup I’ll give u that Sean.

But don’t panic, I’m sure the scouting network is lining up a whole load of poor quality unsuitable players as we speak, and Mick brown is preparing the fax to tell the league we cant field a team for the first game.

No truer word than said in jest, as they say!

 

[Shosho]

How can attitude be scouted?

Even if it could, attitdue is not necessarily fixed. Players may get jaded, or decide they need to pull their socks up. In many respects it's like fitness I'd say. There is the basic personality clash to consider too.

Re the discussion of personal terms: I'd suggest this would form an early part of discussions as the job would not have been advertised with these in the normal way.

And finally, there has never been a manager anywhere ever who has not signed a dissapointing player. (exageration but I hope the point stands!)

Of course attitude can be scouted. Scouting isn’t now just watching a match.

The analysis team flag possible recruits, scouts on the ground will watch a few times, coaches scouts etc will speak to people in the game about attitude/personality. If we are signing a player coming in to their prime, say 26, 8-10 years of the player in the game will give a decent indication of their traits.

 

[manor96]

Agreed. The FA model of scouting - as per the Talent ID course - revolves around the four corner principle. These corners are: Social, Technical / Tactical, Psychological and Physical. Scouts are instructed that attitude is at least as important as ability and are taught to look at all sorts: when and how players arrive at games; how they interact with their teammates on and off the pitch; how they act in the warm-up; how they interact with the referee; how they cope when things start to go wrong etc. They will use contacts such as former coaches and team-mates to analyse the attitude of a player. Clearly, this is not a fully exhaustive process but it is unusual to get so far through the process of a transfer before deciding that the player’s attitude is problematic.

 

[Yellow hert]

I’m simply curious to know the name of this fine footballer who turns up for contract talks and thinks a physical will not be part of the process. Maybe his first name was Billy and he just forgot his lucky boots?